Which is why I dispense with such things as words in these situations. I simply put their hand in mine, with a charming smile, and shake vigorously.
Here’s how I figure: When you look at the world as a whole, and all of history, human societies are incredibly diverse. No matter how you behave in a given social situation, it’s bound to be a grave insult according to some obscure and arcane rule of etiquette, somewhere, right?
Therefore, I take no chances. I just assume that people are always deliberately insulting me, no matter how any interaction plays out. Then I respond with an immediate counterattack, to the crotch.
Amateur. The starting point should be the throat punch, especially with a bride. Chances are her throat is exposed, while she could be wearing crinolines, which form a buffer!
Over the years almost everyone I’ve known has responded to the question of what is appropriate to say to the bride has answered with “Best Wishes” or “Compliment her dress or the flower arrangements.” I have talked with hundreds of students over the year. Amazingly many if not most of the foreign students coming from the Indian subcontinent, the Middle East, and South America were aware of this etiquette customs I remember only a few years ago, one sorority girl who had lovely manners explaining proper wedding etiquette to a co-worker from an impoverished background (the other young woman asked, she had been invited to a formal wedding and didn’t want to make mistakes). Quite simply the black hole about wedding etiquette found on the Dope is just bizarre to me.
That’s a mighty lot of words to express your unwillingness to complete a simple experiment. Your reasons for not doing it are unpersuasive; it honestly looks like you’re frightened of what you might learn by asking a few questions.
Which I get. It’s scary to admit that you might be wrong.
But it’s never too late. You’ll be back at work on Monday. If it’s too scary for you to do on Monday, you’ll be back at work on Tuesday. And Wednesday gives you yet another chance.
I believe in you, ZPG. You can do it!
You know what else I’m not seeing in this thread? People saying: “Well, I have now had the proper etiquette explained to me, and my ignorance is fought. I understand the rationale behind it. I shall now follow this protocol in the future, because antiquated sexist double standards are some of my favorite things.”
I wonder where that crowd is.
What backwater hillbilly nowheresville do you come from? Only total oafs think the rule of etiquette is “no white after Labor Day.” The actual rule is “No white SHOES after Labor Day.” I am baffled that so many boors get this wrong! That said, I do throw blood on people who wear white shoes after Labor Day, though, to teach 'em a lesson.
Actually, last Friday during a workshop (the reason I couldn’t post on the Dope yesterday) I discussed this Dope thread and your question with a whole table of women librarians. Now granted we librarians are generally better educated and more well read than many people, but not one single women had never not heard that it was improper to say congratulations to a respectable bride (yeah, if your cousin marries a ex-prostitute, it might be appropriate, but otherwise the only acceptable comments were “Best Wishes” and "Your ring (dress, bouquet, etc.) is beautiful). One women (granted she was very elderly) offered that she couldn’t believe anyone would ever be so rude as to insult a bride in such a manner. She insisted you had to be joking with me. Heck, our waiter knew what the correct etiquette was.
Many of us in this thread have heard of it, we just do not accept that it’s improper. Because that is not our culture. There is no authority you can argue from to declare that it is actually improper, because culture does not work that way (nor do windmills).
Oh, it’s a lot more complicated than that!
Which side do you start?
Who leans in?
How many kisses? Is it 2 (normal where I live) or 3 (normal according to your girlfriend) or more (normal according to some weird southerners somewhere (I am told))?
Lots of people (French people) “mwah!”
Lots of people (French people) make actually lip to cheek contact. Note that this isn’t strictly practicable/graceful if both participants go for the full contact kiss
And how well do you have to know a guy before you kiss him too? (I have been kissed by at least half a dozen guys since I’ve been here.)
Oh and no tongue?! Now you’re just making stuff up.
You’ve asked hundreds of people this question?
I think I can speak for many of us, that your experience is just as bizarre.
And more, that such a silly gaffe (if it is indeed one) would be meet with such affront.
I was wondering about that. We all missed you!
OK, give me half an hour, and an abacus, and I’ll try to parse this.
“not one single woman” - none of the women
“had never not heard” - “never not”? That, as far as I can tell, should mean “ever”. So, had ever heard.
“that it was improper” - that’s fine as it is.
OK, this is what I’ve got:
None of the women had ever heard that it was improper [to congratulate a bride].
Which is equivalent to:
All the women thought that it was proper [to congratulate a bride].
Please let me know if you have any objections to my reading of this. It does seem to contradict the rest of your post, so I assume that you made a mistake. On the other hand, that doesn’t sound like you, so I’m open to other possibilities.
Oh, FFS! And a half. Don’t drag the librarians of the world into this. At least not without checking with them first.
I thinks she’s only talking about the librarians who are generally better educated and more well read than many people.
BTW, is anyone sticking up for actual prostitutes in all this? You know what, I’ll do it: If it’s insulting to the bride to imply that she’s a prostitute, then you’re not just insulting the bride. You’re also insulting prostitutes.
Prostitution, both in principle and practice, is problematic. That I will be the first to admit. But I don’t look down on actual prostitutes, more than on members of any other profession. If my cousin married an ex-prostitute, I would have no problem with that. I have met prostitutes who were excellent human beings.
Just my own personal opinion, speaking only for myself. For the record.
Not wishing to stray a million miles from the topic, but in the spirit of defence of prostitution (and moreover, in condemnation of those who would condemn), George Brassens’ La Complainte des Filles de Joie
Translation on request (though you can Google half-decent translations).
What a change! Instead of asking a random selection of people at your college, you asked a bunch of colleagues. Instead of using a neutral prompt, you asked them the question in a way that made the right answer clear to them. Gosh, why would you make such changes?
Granted, your method of doing it is a lot likelier to reinforce your preconceived notions, but surely that wouldn’t be why.
Nevertheless, despite this additional attempt at deflection, this rather sad attempt to buttress your ridiculous beliefs, I maintain my faith in you. Monday is a new day! You can do it, ZPG!
Edit: in case you forgot, here’s the very simple experiment:
Hahahaha I WILL DESTROY YOU!
Data point–a co-worker got married last week. She changed her profile picture to show her in her gown. Out of the 18 responses her profile picture got, 11 of them contained the word “congratulations” or “congrats.”
None of those people, I am convinced, are shitty passive-aggressive types.
The bride, I am super-convinced, is not going to experience umbrage at all over these congratulations.
To declare any sort of etiquette foul here would be bizarre: it would turn etiquette into a tool for making civility more, not less, difficult.
Up to 13 women now, including two in their 60s. Some have heard of the tradition, but absolutely none would be offended by a sincere well meaning congratulations. I’m gonna stop bothering my female friends at this point. Not worth it over some crazy internet argument.
This is literally the first I’ve ever heard of it being considered improper to wish a bride “congratulations” - is it an American thing? Or one of those ludicrously outdated customs like toasting the Queen which no-one actually does anymore but likes to think is technically still The Right Thing To Do if you’re a member of the landed gentry or something?
When we got married, lots of people said “congratulations!” to my wife and we’ve both wished all our female friends who have become married “congratulations” on their wedding day. No-one has taken offence at all; and I suspect if you conducted a poll of people under 40 in this part of the world about whether or not it was rude to congratulate the bride, very, very few people would say “Yes”.