Poll for the "technically UN-savvy"

I had to take on the role of first, second and third tier support for work these past two weeks and got a lot more customer interaction that I am used to. What surprised me most is some of the little things I had to explain to people in order to get the support on it’s way (we’re a Web hosting company - not an ISP or a computer fixit shop).

I am wondering about some of the basic computer knowledge (or LACK of knowledge) of people who use computers every day.

The following questions are based on some things that came up at work in the past few weeks. I want to know if I am assuming too much by thinking people know what these things are or if some of our customers are doofuses. I just don’t know because I am one of those lucky folks who has grown up with computers and just…know.

So…If you find yourself to be “bad with computers”…

  1. Do you know what an ISP is and does (in regards to your home, not business)? Do you know the name of your ISP?
  2. Do you you know what I mean when I ask “what email client do you use?”? Do you know the difference between POP email and Web-based email?
  3. Do you have an anti-virus program? If so, do you know how to disable it?
  4. Do you know what a browser is? Do you know where the “address bar” is?
  5. Do you know what a URL is? Domain name? Web address?
  6. Do you know that not all Web site addresses start with www?
  7. Do you know the difference between an “image file” and a document with an image in it?
  8. Do you know (on a PC) what I mean when I say “right-click”? How about “double-click”?

I appreciate any answers. Simple yes/no would be fine for most.

Others who work in support, feel free to add your poll questions too!

  1. Yes and yes

  2. Sort of

  3. Yes and sort of. Not paying for the subscription disables it, I’ve found.

Yes to all the others.

#2 is a bit of a stumper. Do you mean “what program do you use to read your email?” ie Outlook or some other? If not, then no, I have no idea what an email client is. I know the basic difference between POP and webbased email-- in POP the email program has to “get” the messages off the internet somehow. In web-based email, well first off you don’t need an email program, just a browser, and secondly, the program doesn’t (er, I don’t think) have to actively “retrieve” the messages, it just sucks them in as they appear.

#3, I know I have one because my school made me install it to use their network… I have no idea how to disable it.

Yes to all the others.

BTW, I don’t consider myself “bad” with computers – just about average.

A few days ago at work I had two monitors on a counter. At least three times during the course of the day I was asked why I have so many ‘computers’ laying around.

Well, at least it’s a step up from people calling the computer a modem, yea, try troubleshooting that.

I don’t consider myself “bad” with computers but certainly dim about how things actually work. Maybe it’s an age thing? I’m 40 and remember my sister using a Commodore 64. I didn’t use a word processor until my senior year of college and didn’t start using the internet until I was in my early 30s.

To answer your questions:

  1. Do you know what an ISP is and does (in regards to your home, not business)? Do you know the name of your ISP?

Yes, I know what an ISP is. No, I don’t know specifically what an ISP does, other than that’s how I get internet access at home. Yes.

  1. Do you you know what I mean when I ask “what email client do you use?”? Do you know the difference between POP email and Web-based email?

Not sure–I would say Comcast since that’s my e-mail address. I know that it’s web-based but I don’t know the difference between POP and Web-based.

  1. Do you have an anti-virus program? If so, do you know how to disable it?

No and no. I have a Mac FWIW.

  1. Do you know what a browser is? Do you know where the “address bar” is?

Yes and yes.

  1. Do you know what a URL is? Domain name? Web address?

Yes, yes, yes.

  1. Do you know that not all Web site addresses start with www?

Sort of.

  1. Do you know the difference between an “image file” and a document with an image in it?

No.

  1. Do you know (on a PC) what I mean when I say “right-click”? How about “double-click”?

Yes and yes.

  1. Yes and yes
  2. Not sure, unless you mean the type of email account. I do know the difference between POP and web-based. No clue what POP stands for, though.
  3. Yes and yes, and I know how to uninstall it. I don’t know much of anything about computers but we were having a lot of problems with this one until I uninstalled Norton and got Avira instead.
  4. Yes and yes.
  5. Yes, yes, yes.
  6. I know http and www3., but not sure about others
  7. Yes and yes
  8. Yes, yes.

I can assure you that the people who come into the library and say “I don’t know anything about computers” know none of these things. If you even started to speak one of those sentences to them you’d get a vaugely hostile glassy stare and “… do it for me.”

That’s kind of a silly question to ask on this board, isn’t it?

Agreed.

I know people love saying the Internet will replace books someday, but it won’t be until people stop holding the mouse like a TV remote and not knowing how to type when they sit down at a computer with their question.

I think it’ll be a long wait.

1. Do you know what an ISP is and does (in regards to your home, not business)? Do you know the name of your ISP?
I think it stands for “Internet Service Provider” and it’s Comcast, the guys I pay to let me connect my magic box with your magic box.

2. Do you you know what I mean when I ask “what email client do you use?”? Do you know the difference between POP email and Web-based email?
Gmail. No, I’ve never grokked the difference between POP email and Web-based email. You’ve lost me now. My dad tried to explain it to me once back in the dark ages when he set Eudora (or something) up on my computer and I didn’t retain it.

3. Do you have an anti-virus program? If so, do you know how to disable it?
Yes and no. It’s AVG, I think is the name? I chose it based on a Doper recommendation to get rid of my Norton. The AVG is free. I like that. My computer still works two years later, I like that even more. I do know (or think I know) that using Firefox instead of Explorer further reduces my risk of getting viruses. I have no idea how to disable it, but I’d make the attempt by starting at that little four-colored square I see down on the lower right hand corner of my screen. I think that gets me into the AVG “control center” or something.

4. Do you know what a browser is? Do you know where the “address bar” is?
Yeessss…but I think I use the terms incorrectly. I call a browser and the address bar both the browser, but I think the reality is that Firefox is my browser, and the address bar is the part of the Firefox screen I type the web address into.

**5. Do you know what a URL is? Domain name? Web address? **
I would use these terms interchangeably to refer to the characters I need to type into the address bar to get to a certain web page.

6. Do you know that not all Web site addresses start with www?
Yes, only because when I worked at Blockbuster they had an employee only site at blockbuster.com, and the general public site at www.blockbuster.com. I don’t know really what the difference is, and I know that for many sites, I can type the www or not and it seems to take me to the same page. I suspect there’s a redirect involved (that’s what it’s called when one page takes you somewhere else so quickly you probably don’t even notice it, right?)

I assume you mean because this website doesn’t start with a www? Actually, I never noticed that until just now. I’ve never typed the address in myself. When I started coming here, I followed the links through the Chicago Reader, through Cecil’s column into the message board. Then I bookmarked it. Never had to learn the address.

**7. Do you know the difference between an “image file” and a document with an image in it? **
Yes.

8. Do you know (on a PC) what I mean when I say “right-click”? How about “double-click”?
Yes.

A note here: I use the internet a lot for research and a few message boards. I also use Word quite a bit, and a few really low end crappy photo editing/make a sign for the school bakesale type programs. I’m not a total computer moron. But I think why I consider myself technically unsavvy (or, more commonly, a computer idiot) is that I don’t grok the computer. I don’t understand it the way I understand, say, my sewing machine, or how to cook. I can’t create or fix anything on my own as a result. I think this might be even more true for my parents and grandparents - they grew up in a time when understanding how something works meant you could take it apart and put it back together again. You could modify, tweak or alter things about it because you could understand how it all worked, theoretically as well as an end-user. So they (and I, to some extent), think we can’t ever “know” computers because we don’t have the time, interest and the resources to know all that stuff from building computers to building websites.

I *think *I know the difference between a router and a modem (a modem lets me connect with the outside world, the router connects my computers within the house and lets them all use the one modem for the internet) but they’re both these little boxes with blinky lights under my desk - anything more complex and you’ve lost me.

Nope - was looking to see if people even realize this is the case. WhyNot answered perfectly. If you always come in from the link at www.straightdope.com or just use a bookmark you might not realize that this site does not start with www.

Interesting answers so far. I am glad I asked about the “email client” - I will have to make sure not to use that term in the future.

Therein lies your problem. You speak of “terms” , you speak in initials, and you speak of “bars”. You do not speak in plain English.
You say you work for a web hosting company, so I suppose you expect questions from the techies who designed their company’s web site. But it sounds to me that you are getting questions from non-techies who are simply using the site, and didn’t design it. You need to speak in plain English, ,not computerese.

instead of
*1. Do you know what an ISP is and does *
try saying this:
“which company do you pay to hook your computer to rest of the world?”

2.Do you you know what I mean when I ask “what email client do you use?”
oops–computerese! In the English language, a client is a person who pays for something.
try saying this:
which program do use to read your email?

  • Do you know the difference between POP email and Web-based email?*
    try saying this:
    “do you know if you can read your emails from any computer, say, at a public library?”

3. Do you have an anti-virus program? If so, do you know how to disable it?
thank you, ziperj for speaking English–I bet your customers answer this question more easily than the first two.

4. Do you know what a browser is?
oops!-more computerese…In the English language, a browser is a woman in the aisle of a dress shop.
Try saying " when you use the internet, which progam do you point at and click on? Is it the little picture of the blue letter e?

Do you know where the “address bar” is?
try saying: ma’am, do you know where to type in the name of a web site? If I ask you to type “www.cnn.com”, are you typing it in a white box with the word “address” on the left, or are you accidently typing it in a space with the word “search” or “go” next to it?
(yes, lots of folks don’t know the difference between a browser and a search engine.Somebody set their home page to google or msn,so they start typing in the first place they see–which may be the search line, not the address line)
5. Do you know what a URL is?
try saying “the web site address” --don’t use initials when speaking to non-specialists.
*Domain name? Web address? *
I know that there are 3 or 4 levels of domain names, but I don’t know what they are, and most importantly–I don’t care. I just want to open the straightdope or my favorite porn site :slight_smile: and see my information. Your clients are the same. Ask them to read you the name of their site by saying "look at the top of your screen for a line starting “http”

6. Do you know that not all Web site addresses start with www?
yes, I know this. But I have no idea why. For me, the internet is the same as the web. I don’t care if email , ftp,discussion groups, etc are technically separate elements. And your clients probably don’t know or care either.

7. Do you know the difference between an “image file” and a document with an image in it?
the word “file” is not intuitive! A file is a physical thing in a manilla envelope.

an anecdote:
I just emailed some family pictures to some not-so-elderly relatives, who use the internet a lot and own a digital camera. I told them to “save the files”, and they said “what files? I thought you were sending us photos from your camera”.
I laughed out loud, but realized: there is some logic to their ignorance. They see jpg pictures listed on the screen as a thumbnail images. They see their Word documents listed as named entities. They never use the word “file”.

8. Do you know (on a PC) what I mean when I say “right-click”? How about “double-click”?
I have explained these concepts a dozen times to (mostly elderly) people, and I get angry every time I have to repeat myself.
But try saying:
“click with the mouse, but not necessarily with your first finger–make sure you click the button on the right”

and for “double click” , try saying,“make two quick clicks, one right after the other”
(yes, people are that stupid. deal with it. :slight_smile: )

With the exception of question three, yes to all. For question three, I have Macs, so I don’t use anti-virus programs. But, I know enough in general to disable one if I needed to do so.

It is extremely common for people who use the internet all the time to have no idea where the address bar is. They type whatever the hell falls out of their brains into the search box that comes up when they open IE, and then they click the first result. This works often enough for them that they never realize that they’re not doing it right until they come here to the library and our home page isn’t the same as their homepage.

Also, a lot of people type search strings into the address bar, which will often open up some sort of search results (legit or not), and they also have no idea that that isn’t the way you’re supposed to do it.

Actually - I am talking about/talking to people who work for the companies for whom we host email. This isn’t grannies at home or people just learning to use computers. I’ve actually never spoken to a person who is trying to use one of our sites - that’d be awkward.

So the people I talk to use computers every day. They use email every day, as part of their job.

I am not flabbergasted by their lack of knowledge. I’m not trying to pick on them. Rather, I am trying to find that middle ground where I am neither talking down to people nor am I talking over their heads. So I’m trying to get a feel for what people know.

I think if I used some of your terminology with most people they would be offended at how I am speaking to them. I would rather have them say “what’s that?” and explain it than assume they are really dense. I’m trying to minimize awkwardness, here.

I agree. You do have to be speaking the same language as the user. The problem is, some users will begin the conversation using “terms” because they’ve heard them or read them and their usage will be incorrect.

As a tech support/customer service person, you have to start at some arbitrary middle ground and adjust your vocabulary accordingly.

A lot of users don’t know that a “browser” is the software that you use to view the Internet, but you also can’t assume that they use IE and ask them to click on the blue E. Similiarly, it’s not uncommon for a user to use the search window to find a web page, so asking them to type “mail.isp.domain” may not bring the desired results.

It’s your job as the support person to guide them (gently) to the correct path.

Ask them, when they’ve mis-typed the address, to try again, “only this time, without the ‘w’s’.” Explain to them that Web mail is mail that accessible through the Internet and that any computer that can access the Web can get to the mail, while POP mail is mail that lives on a server at the ISP (the company that provides your connection to the Internet) until you connect to it using email software (called a “client”) that has to be configured with the proper address.

I tell my customers that there’s no shame in being “technically UN-savvy.” I drive a car every day, but I’m not embarrassed to tell a mechanic I don’t know what’s wrong when it doesn’t work.

I knew the answers to all the questions, but I do have a “technically UN-savvy” question. Why would you want to disable your anti-virus program?

Because some of the damn things (I’m looking at YOU, Norton AV) take over your computer, and can cause things like slowdowns or cause your email not to work or refuse to let things install. It’s not a good idea to disable them all the time, but often for troubleshooting purposes you want to turn 'em off for a few minutes and see if that fixes the problem.

Yeah, what Athena said. People call us up and say “my email isn’t working” and most of the time anymore it’s a local problem (local to their machine) and we can’t help them (or rather, we can’t prove it’s not our problem) unless they disable AV for a minute and run a test or two. It’s actually a big problem for us when people don’t know how to disable AV because they don’t believe the problem is on their end and want us to “fix it” but there’s nothing we can do if the problem lies within their computer.

First, I should say that I don’t consider myself to be “bad with computers.” My coworkers frequently turn to me for help. The fact that I have to answer “no” to many of your questions suggests that it’s not safe to assume that the average user will be familiar with these topics. And it suggests that I might be a moron.