I just made a confusing mini-rant post about this, but wanted some other opinions .
I work at a university library. I am on the top floor with the journals and microforms. We allow the public to visit our library, but as far as I know, only students can check materials out and login to the computer lab computers (ones with all the various programs like Microsoft Office) because you need a student ID/student number to do those things.
There are 5 crappy computers on my floor, with big CRT monitors still. The desktop image is custom and states that these computers are for looking at the card catalog, databases, and other basic research only. We also don’t care if people hop on to check Facebook because no one uses the computers for very long, most check the card catalog then leave. The computers only have Internet Explorer. They also do not print.
A lady came up to me at my desk today, and inquired as to why Microsoft Word is not on the computers up here. I told her these computers are up here for card catalog searching and database stuff, and that you have to go to a computer lab for more full computer functionality. The lady was mostly calm during our talk as was I, but she got increasingly rude and started to ignore what I was saying after a certain point and even insulted my intelligence a few times.
So my point was that: (not exact words but the point I was trying to make)
there are only 5 computers up here
they say on them that their purpose is to search the card catalog students pay extra technology fees for our computer labs on top of tuition, you are not a student, so you do not pay
and the labs already aren’t big enough to accommodate paying students anyway (during regular school days there are lines at this one and the few others I have been to on campus)
this area has many public libraries with computers she could visit as well(and she said she would like to see 12 public computers here…guess how many the last public library I visited had? 15, and you could print)
Her point was:
it’s the age of technology, there should be free computers for the public here
not everyone goes to a brick and mortar college, so she should be able to come here and use our resources fully (apparently she did online school - how does she do the rest of her work then?)
other colleges (she did not tell me which ones) let the public use their computers fully for free
Despite the fact she treated me like a moron throughout our conversation and there was some other stuff where she started getting really mean that dealt with her plans for me to try to fix the problem for her, what do the dopers think? Should all public universities let the non-tuition/fee paying public full access to their resources? Even when said university is located in a major metropolitan area with many public libraries? When I mean “full access” I mean either: letting public patrons check out materials and/or letting the public login to computer lab computers with all the programs and printing access (which here would require a reworking of the login process or a way for nonstudents to pay for printing).
University library exists for the benefit of the university not all the general public. Libraries for the general public are called… public libraries.
If the online program does not offer an option to get computer lab access (for a fee), then they are silly, but that’s something to take up with the Online programs office, not the library.
(note: MANY public universities receive only fractional support from the state – when I was at William & Mary, the state only provided something like 15% of funding, and there was constant talk of going private, culminating in the Restructuring Act.
(Search)
That’s what public libraries are for. Free computer access with basic app’s available, (usually) free or very low-cost Interlibrary Loan. I don’t pay college tuition, so I don’t expect to be able to fully use college resources.
I’d be happy if I could just drive over to the college to check out that book I want–just free stack access would be great–but I can get everything I need through ILL for free. It’s not like I’m deprived.
I just wish I could check out materials from a college library in the local community. I’d certainly be willing to pay for the privilege. At the very least, why shouldn’t university libraries have interlibrary loan with their city’s library system?
I don’t think the college library owes the public any access at all, and I consider the fact that they let the public use their resources with the limitations you describe is really nice of them. I remember needing to go to St. Louis University’s library for something when I was in high school and being afraid they’d spot me and throw me out till a librarian told me it was ok to be there. My Grampa was a member of the Mercantile Library, and you couldn’t just wander in there. That lady’s a nut and she’s forgotten the difference between public and private libraries. She should pop over to the central library downtown and check out some material on Carnegie and public libraries.
I’m sure circulation is an issue. If you don’t return a book or pay an outstanding fine to your university’s library, they withhold your diploma (ie, you don’t graduate). What’s to stop a regular citizen from not returning a hard-to-find out-of-print resource, or selling it on eBay for that matter? Nothing but civic duty, basically.
I think the public should get a level of access that is consistent with what the state pays for the university to function. Since you’re at a public university in Missouri, I’m guessing that figure is now around 0%. So no public access necessary! (It was at 30% when I was in school there, and with the state legislature being what it is, I can only assume it has finally depreciated that far!)
All hyperbole aside, I think the university should be required to allow all access possible to public resources, provided that it does not jeopardize it’s mission of educating its students. This would mean that computer labs are private resources, since students pay a fee for them. The public should perhaps be allowed to pay this same fee to use the labs. Borrow books is a tricky issue, though, since it could deprive students of their use, but they are probably bought with public funds.
This is just a ridiculous statement. Essentially, it’s like saying that since the health club I belong to doesn’t have a swimming pool, the local parks department should have to build one and let me use it for free.
At the University of Colorado at Boulder, our Library is set up in the same way as yours. Lab computers require a log on, and the machines scattered around the library only have IE (although they can print, but all printing requires a card swipe). I don’t think the public should have open access to the computers in the lab. The public library is about a 10 minute walk off campus.
Some of the different colleges also have their own computer labs here, and you have to have access on your card to get into them. I pay a higher tuition in the Architecture college, and that gives me access to the resources they offer. I wouldn’t want other students taking up space in our private computer labs or the Visual Resource Center (Image databases, photography studio, and darkroom). The other students can go to the library, and use the older computers there.
At the university library where I work, my understanding of the library information commons is that (and bear in mind that I don’t work in the info commons/reference desk, so I could be wrong)
The computers are fully open to the public except during the 1 AM- 7AM hours (during fall/spring semesters the building is open to students/faculty/staff 24/5). There is no log on required. However, if students are waiting to use the computers, those not doing research/school related activities will be asked for their university ID and asked to leave if they cannot produce it. I’m in a completely different state than you are and our institutions are funded differently.
Should the public have access to the computers in a university library? That very much depends on the library. I do think that the labs are primarily for student use and you have to be very careful about allowing unlimited access. I also think it depends upon the funding for the university and state regulations. I believe there are problems on both sides of the issue - there are resources paid for (in full or in part) with state funding that are only available electronically, but there are also students who pay beyond what the Joe Taxpayer pays to attend the institution, and they need to have access when they need it.
In the situation you’re describing, The library/university has chosen to limit access and that is their prerogative. The lady sounds as if she had an unreasonable expectation and didn’t investigate her local options before signing up for the class you mentioned.
So, I’m confused. ** myskepticsight**, was this lady a student through one of your university’s online programs? Or was she a student though someplace like University of Phoenix? That makes for a BIG difference in opinion as to what she should be allowed access to. I can’t imagine a university denying full resources to their own students taking online classes, since at most schools, these students are registered just the same as everyone else.
She was not a student here, online or otherwise. She said she went to a different school that sounded like online-only, so no she did not go here. I think if you take online classes here you are still a “student” and assigned a student ID and make a password, which is what is needed for computer lab access.
I think you’re confusing the public/private distinctions.
You don’t check IDs at the door, so the public can enter the library, but the library is not designed in any way for them. You can tell this due that they can’t use the computers, check out books, etc, etc, etc.
You could have saved a lot of aggrevation by telling this woman the library is only for students, because it is.
At the University of Minnesota, anyone can join Friends of the Library for $80 and get a “borrower’s card” which allows you to check out materials. This card does not allow you into the computer labs, though. Library computers are just for searching the card catalog. When I was a student, they didn’t even have Internet access, but I think they do now.
Recently, the San Jose State University merged its library with the City of San Jose’s public library’s main branch, in a somewhat controversial experiment. That is, they built a new building designed to hold both libraries and with few exceptions there are no barriers to prevent anyone from using anything in either library.
Rather like walking into the dining room of a fire station, sitting down to dinner, eating, and then complaining about the food!
All humans are a bit crazy, but some are really crazy.
If someone asks you the same question again, tell them that the university is morally opposed to Microsoft Word because Myanmar is using it to persecute opponents of the regime. Tell her that she can use Open Office, but she has to sign an agreement saying that any material she creates or edits or prints with it must be made available to the public because of the terms of the GPL.
If she can see through this bsht, tell her to buy her own dn computer.
I don’t think there’s a definitive answer, it’s up to what the administration decides. Generally speaking, though, I would expect lending privileges of larger universities to be open (perhaps with restrictions and/or a fee), and computer lab access to be closed. IME computer labs are not really part of the library anyhow, they are run by some other department, the “Office of Student Computing” or some such, who just keep up a lab in the library building for the convenience of the students.
FWIW, the university libraries at UNC-Chapel Hill do have public access computers with access to printers. The computers have MS Office on them and a browser. Printing is slightly more expensive than it is in the student labs located in the library. As a NC taxpayer I think this is a good thing. I don’t know all the details, but I think UNC-Chapel Hill has some status as a repository for government documents that extends its mission somewhat in terms of service to the state.
It would be kind of nice to be able to print from your card catalog, IMHO. Sometimes I am researching a lot of records and want to print out the references to sort through and maybe track them down later.
But your university needs to make the best decision it can within its own mission and budget. Assuming you are a state school, you probably put bond issues up for a vote from time to time and this is one way to build goodwill among the general public.
My college (private) allows community members to connect to the wireless network for 30 minutes and doesn’t have any computers available to the public, partly because if one is logged on to a computer, one can print for free, a resource that even students get criticized for abusing. I don’t think community members can check out books, though I believe that students at the two other local colleges can, and I think I can use their libraries as well, should I have the burning desire to do so. We do get students from those colleges and the local high school coming in to use books as references without checking them out and study, though, because it’s such a nice space for it and there really is enough room except during finals week.
