Lissa’s husband, you make some good points. I have, as a mother, lost my patience with my kids (maybe more than once), and no, I don’t feel that I never should have had kids. But, like you, I do feel like the cop should be disciplined, and we are going to pursue that avenue. While I’ve lost my patience with my kids, I don’t think I’ve ever done or said anything to them that had them sobbing in terror (which my middle daughter was). Not to mention the fact that, if it had been a “momentary lapse” of judgment on the part of the cop, why would he have: harrassed my oldest daughter while she was waiting for the ambulance, harrassed my middle daughter after the ambulance came, and then gone to the hospital to further harrass my oldest daughter? This doesn’t sound like anything “momentary”. This sounds like an ongoing loss of control, and I don’t think we’re holding cops to impossible standards by asking better of them.
WHAAAAAAT?!
preview…preview…preview…
Anyway, doesn’t his going to the hospital, for whatever purpose, let alone harassment, breach the police “don’t get involved” code of contact?
Was this guy old or young?
Rilchiam, I understand he’s about 40. Whether that’s young or old depends on how old you are 
Let me lay out for you what he did, if I haven’t made it crystal clear (I’ve been upset): At our house, before the ambulance arrived, he told our oldest: “If you give the EMT’s a hard time, I’ll charge you with verbal assault” at which point she told him she had no reason to give them a hard time, as it was her that called them! Then, after the ambulance arrived, he talked to my middle girl, threatening her with action from Child Protective Svcs. Then, he went to the hospital, and told my oldest “If you were mine, I’d have your stomach pumped, take you home and beat your butt, and send you to bed”. The ER doc heard him say this. The doc thought it was inappropriate for him to be talking to her without her parents present, but as he had referenced “being at our house before”, and as my daughter was being very polite, the doc assumed that this cop had a personal relationship with us (small city, it happens). So, this cop didn’t just “lose control” for a moment, his control remained lost for some time, and I don’t think that expecting better of a cop is “holding them to an impossible standard”. After all, if I, as a mother, lost control of my emotions, to the detriment of my kids, for a prolonged time, anyone would have the right to question my parenting abilities. And if, to use Lissa’s husband’s example, a store employee lost his temper with a customer, that might be forgivable. But what this cop did would be comparable to that clerk not just losing his temper, but following the customer home to continue screaming at him!
BTW, Lissa’s husband, I don’t mean to jump on you. I think that perhaps you misunderstood the extent of the officers’ actions. I hope you’re tracking this thread so you can confirm my suspicions on this. You seem like a reasonable guy.
Nope, I never misunderstood your original statements. That is why I first qualified myself by saying that this guy was wrong and should be disciplined. He went, as I think I put it, “way over the line”.
I guess my post was sort of a hijack which may have led to your confusion. I had noticed quite a few other posters going after law enforcement and saying things like “if you don’t want the stress, don’t wear the badge”. That was what i am referring to. Now, if we want to talk about a cop beating someone down for thirty minutes or berating and harassing your children, there is no justification for any of that, irregardless of stress on the job.
I think some people berate police officers for offenses much more minor than this. As I recall, someone said they (police) should be “professional at all times”. This is why I used the comparison to other vocations to demonstrate that there are few, if any, people who are “professional all the time”. Just because of their vocation, a police officer should not be held up to a higher standard than others. Nor should they be expected to not act like any other human would in highly stressful situation. Law Enforcement officials should strive to be professional all of the time, but I submit that there will be times when composure is momentarily lost.
For example, just today I interviewed a subject who was, without getting into details about the offense, claiming complete ignorance of someone being in her house. This individual, who was in her house, was a convicted child molester and murderer who was on parole. She kept on hiding behind ignorance (you see she is actually living with this guy and wants to deny this even though we had pictures, statements, physical evdience, etc…), but then told me that she was babysitting her 5 year old grandson when this man allegedly came into the house. I recalled earlier in her statement that she said she loved her grandson and he was the most important thing in the world to her. So when I heard that she was “sleeping all day” and “had no idea who was in her house”, but then claimed she was babysitting the grandson “she loved more than anything else in the world” I kinda lost it. Here she is lying, talking about loving her grandson, and then, used as an excuse for someone being at her house, her deliberate indifference to the safety of that child. When faced with the pictures and other evidence that proved he was there, she said she just remembered that her grandson said a guy came to the door, asked to use the bathroom and to have a drink of water. She said her grandson came into the bedroom to tell her this. But she did not investigate ANYTHING about this “stranger”. That was her story to dispute our evidence and clear herself, or so she thought. That was when I got very angry and started berating her for being a bad caretaker and challenging whether or not she loved the child. I started pushing her buttons to get her to confess, even going to the point of starting to talk about calling children’s services. My first thought was to get her to see what she was admitting to and change her story to cover up her admission of negligence. You see, what I did was wrong and unprofessional, because a good interrogator should not ever make direct threats and try to intimidate a witness like I did. I got my composure back quickly, took a break, came back and finished the interview. So, i was not professional the whole time, but I am sure you can understand how I could have lost my composure when this woman, in an effort to protect herself, was willing to let her grandson (that she supposedly loved) be exposed to a violent sexual felon.
Even though I was unprofessional, i will still put the badge on tomorrow and keep on working… Alas, I digress.
But, to make it clear: The cop that berated your child is a complete self-righteous, unprofessional asshat and should not be a police officer. If he has allowed the stress of the job to totally corrupt him, then I agree he should not put the badge on.
Well, what I meant was, based on his age, was he more likely to be new on the job, or experienced. I’m also trying to picture him.
And I meant “code of conduct”! Jeez, what is wrong with me today?
BTW: Lissa’s Husband, you should get your own account! Just call yourself that. I really enjoy your posts, and it would be easier to search for them if you had a separate SN.
Afraid I’m gonna have to disagree with you here. Policemen need to be held to higher standards for the exact same reason politicians and doctors need to be held to higher standards. The jobs they hold have more power over peoples’ lives. Having said that, if I was treated this unprofessionally at, say, a restaurant, I would at the very least, expect a sincere apology and for the businessman to do whatever is possible to “right the wrong”. In this case, I think that would be to have this very officer come to talk to the two girls (my girls) that he harmed, admit to them that he was wrong, and ask for their forgiveness. One of the reasons I want to come down on this guy is that I don’t see anything like an apology happening. Some officers get way too carried away with their egos and wouldn’t admit they’ve done anything wrong. In most other professions (at least the ones who come into contact with the public every day) you can’t get away with that. Whe I say “some” cops, I say it because I know that a majority of them (including you), are out there doing their very best every day. Because the job holds so much power, the very best is what I ask. Not perfection, just maximum effort. When you’re a cop, you can’t really afford to put half-assed effort into the job.
How are the kids, norinew ?
I hope you do succeed with your efforts to get this put on his record, it needs to be there. What if he should “lose it” again? There needs to be documentation of this for his superiors to see.
I’d push for making this guy get stress management, and sensitivity training. Also anger management.
I fumed when I saw what he said to your daughter, and if it were me, I’d seriously consider pressing assault charges. Isn’t it a worse offense, if the victim is already in a “fragile” condition? I know it is morally, but I mean legally?
It’s pretty ironic, that he should accuse you of “not getting appropriate help” and then to top it, to threaten to take the most damaging action to “solve” the problem. This guy needs serious teaching. He’s one of “those” people who think depression in a teen is easily solved with an “ass beating” :dubious: It’s an ignorant, and backwards idea, and if he cannot let go of it, he should not be in a position of such power. Just my 2 cp.
Good luck, I’ve been praying for you and your family.
This is pure banana oil!
Police officers must be held to a higher standard of conduct. Try to imagine the mayhem that would ensue if all citizens were permitted to carry a sidearm on their belt and a shotgun in their car. Law enforcement officers are specifically trained to endure higher levels of stress via extensive education and weapons practice. This is precisely what simulated action live fire popup target training courses are for. Police officers are required to withhold personal feelings in the fulfillment of their duties. They are not permitted to assault a detainee for the use of foul language or derisive tone.
I will repeat that if you cannot withstand the stress level of your job, don’t pin on your badge. Take a day off, go on vacation but do not show up for work. I’m not saying that they should quit their chosen profession. I’m saying that they slowly back away from whatever edge of misconduct they are nearing. I fully understand that police officers are human beings too. I also expect them to fully comprehend the intense danger of allowing themselves to incorporate their feelings into their work. This is not to say that it does not happen. This is to say that each officer must possess sufficient autoscopic ability to fully comprehend and distinguish with great clarity when their own feelings are beginning to interfere with their job.
When the general public entrusts another person to carry weapons within their midst, it is with an implicit and explicit understanding that they will hold themselves to a higher standard of conduct than the average person around them. They are not permitted to draw their weapon in anger nor to intimidate suspects via the use of force. This is precisely why academy training is required and the reason that rookies are teamed with more experienced comrades during their initial tour of duty. Many reasonable and mandatory steps are required before an armed individual is allowed to patrol the streets unsupervised. All of this points to a higher standard of conduct for just as many excellent reasons.
Now that I’ve seen how this individual took it upon himself to interfere with proper medical treatment of this child (stressing out a suicide attempt patient while they are in hospital is exactly that), I will further advocate that this particular officer be demoted. A pay cut, anger management courses and a permanent record of reprimand should all be part of the corrective action taken against this officer. By going to the hospital after the fact, this person went well over the line and into the realm of personal intervention under false color of authority.
norinew, I too hope your kids are healing from this incident. Please make sure to get a written statement from the medico that witnessed the officer’s presence in your daughter’s hospital room.
I am not answering that question on the grounds that it might incriminate me. 
As for all the talk about how the officer behaved, you could have gotten two like I did the day my son was hit by that car three years ago.
I understand they were preoccupied because president Clinton was in town that day speaking at the high school, but they loaded my son in the ambulance, placed his police report under the straps and left.
I had no contact with the responding officers what so ever. No follow-up either and the woman didn’t file her accident report with them or the DOT.
:eek:
Last week, I had a meltdown, subsequent banning, and reinstatement of posting privileges after apologising to Scotticher, Lynn, and the SDMB in general for my shitheaded behavior in a particular thread. Sorry, no link, but the thread was entitled something like “Washington State Bans Videogames,” or something of that nature, if you really want to see it. I hope you don’t, it’s nothing to be proud of.
Anyhow, what the “reason” for my meltdown was was percieved (by me) snarkiness for my scoffing at Washington State’s claims to being a “progressive” state, which, really, it is. Attitudes here are pretty laid back and tolerant. For the most part, all points of view are given a pretty fair shake.
A little over two years ago, mine and Mrs. Smegma’s youngest was diagnosed with “Shaken Baby Syndrome.” He was taken out of our care and placed in foster care, except for “supervised visits” (I can’t even begin to describe how painful it was for us to know that his first words were spoken, and his first steps were taken in sight of “objective foster care” that did everything to us besides point fingers and scream, “j’accuse!”).
For the most part, the Social Workers dealt with us in an honorable fashion. However, CPS has (in Washington State, at least) a kind of Catch-22/Kafkaesque way of doing things. Apparently, once you are even implicated, however tenuously, to any form of child abuse and CPS becomes involved, you are forced to deal with their “system,” to the tune of thousands of dollars and untold emotional pain. Obviously, from my venom (clumsily and indirectly) directed to CPS in Washington, I, and I know my wife, are still coping with the emotional scars from this frankly harrowing experience.
Anyhow, to relate to the OP, we had one caseworker from CPS that was crazy. She told many people related to our case that I had been to emergency rooms multiple times for drug and alcohol related mishaps. Not true. The only time I’ve been a patient in the ER was a work-related injury. I was a Nursing Assistant, and got an accidental needle stick, went to the ER, got a gamma globulin shot (man! it was like they shot a baseball into my buttcheek! my leg shot out to the side from the spasm! the ER nurse and I had a great time making raunchy jokes about it. 
). The crazy Social Worker also tried to convince Mrs. Smegma that she is a battered woman, despite the fact that I haven’t hit her or given worse than I’ve gotten in a verbal hooraw. Mrs. Smegma was forced by court order to attend a “battered womens’” meeting. From this, she learned to put clinical labels on those state employees who were abusing us. Things like: controlling, explosive temper disorder, and other smiley things.
I was forced to attend a Domestic Violence group grope (sorry, I mean therapy, dammit!), which, of course, I had to pay for. In that, I learned that control freaks (whom I still almost reflexively loathe) actually have a human side. Oh, goody. I got to pay for the “service” ordered by CPS of Washington State of a year of weekly meetings with wife beaters. Thanks. Lots.
Back to the OP (sorry for my hijack): we, among others, let the Powers That Be know about the bullshit and borderline psychotic abuse we were suffering at the behest of CPS, and therefore at the behest of Washington State. The crazy Social Worker was told, “Quit, or get fired.”
P.S. After two years of evil, we got our baby boy back. Unfettered custody. Washington State gave up after family members, friends, our pediatrician, and most importantly, the court appointed guardian ad litem, entered legal statements and recommendations in support of us as parents. For what it’s worth, I didn’t abuse my boy, and neither did my wife. Frankly, I consider us fortunate. I was never charged with a crime, neither was Mrs. Smegma. We did everything we could possibly do to have this nightmare end ASAP. Others aren’t so lucky. There are plenty of people serving prison time for misdiagnosed Shaken Baby Syndrome. This is the Pit, no cites. Look it up!
norinew, as far as I’m concerned (and take it for what you think it’s worth) that cop (No, he’s a pig. In my estimation, he’s earned the contempt of that name for his abrogation of your daughters’ and your and Mr. norinew’s rights) deserves everything you can give him up to and including discharge from the force. Before our crazy Social Worker dealt with us, she had cut quite a wide swathe through other (mostly male, it turns out that she left an abuser) taxpayers. Sounds to me that your asswipe cop is smearing his own foul personal stench on your family. He needs a serious smackdown!