Post-BRexit fallout and happenings

[Novelty_Bobble]

@Baron_Greenback

This just isn’t true, Bobble, and your argument is even weaker when considering the treaties that the various UK governments have negotiated with the evolving European entity.

I’m not getting back into it Baron, haven’t the time or stomach and the Portugal v Croatia match starts soon but I’m a stickler for points of fact.

Supranational

Primacy of European Law

I invite others to read and decide if my statement was true or not.

[T.M]

@Hiker

I had hoped for a different outcome of the referendum and I believe the result will hurt both Britain and the EU. Then again, the world will not end for either of them. Britain will not go down in flames and the EU will not fall apart.

Here is what I think will happen:
[ul]
[li]London *will *invoke Article 50. At this point this is only a question of when, not if. Any attempt to backpedal now would be political suicide, and no none is going to do it.[/li][li]Scotland will ask for and get another referendum to leave the UK. It is a very real possibility that they will leave this time - but it is by no means a done deal.[/li][li]The EU will declare their awareness of the need to reform, but the 27 remaining member states will have a hard time agreeing on actual reforms. Nothing much will change. Possibly a subset of EU members will agree to take integration further without waiting for the rest.[/li][li]The British economy will see a dip. It is not going to be disastrous but noticeable. As always the people who are going to feel it most are the ones in the lower income bracket.[/li][li]Britain will attempt to establish trade agreements with the EU in order to soften the blow on their economy. Ironically this will mean that the majority of the much reviled EU-regulations will remain applicable to Britain.[/li][li]England will not win the Euro 2016 championship. (Not making any predictions for Wales.)[/li][/ul]

**I feel bad for the younger generation of Britons who saw their future within the EU and who have now been kicked out by their grandparents. Then again this goes to show once more that if you have the good fortune of living in a democracy you should get off your ass and bloody vote.

**

Over the past weeks I have spoken to many young people in the town centre, a great deal of their information has come from teachers and lecturers biased towards remain. I found that the longer the gap between college and real life the swing was to out. I asked my 15 year old grandson for his opinion and his reply was that when they studied the common market as a part of European history the teacher had a definite bias towards the EU.

[T.M]

@Hiker

You sound a lot like the kind of people that I like. But you have made one assertion that I must disagree with. I do not see a factual basis for calling the EU or the British membership in the EU undemocratic. Britain has, as you agree, joined the EEC through a democratic process. Sure, the EEC has changed a lot since then, as one would expect over the course of more than forty years, but every one of those changes has been overseen by representatives from the UK that have come into office through a democratic process. Britons may not like being in the EU in it’s current form, but as long as they have elected governments that have kept them in there, there is nothing undemocratic about it.

There is nothing undemocratic about the people telling their government that they have gone to far. The leave campaign is a very small tip of a very large iceberg of discontent, if the government ignores the result of the referendum it will be political suicide with a general election called within months with UKIP controlling the balance of power. hopefully the leave result will go ahead in the autumn. . then we will be able to get on with other matters such as an English Parliament

[Fuzzy_wuzzy]

@T.M

There is nothing undemocratic about the people telling their government that they have gone to far. The leave campaign is a very small tip of a very large iceberg of discontent, if the government ignores the result of the referendum it will be political suicide with a general election called within months with UKIP controlling the balance of power. hopefully the leave result will go ahead in the autumn. . then we will be able to get on with other matters such as an English Parliament

Absolutely. Let’s see how the Remainers welcome a Prime Minister Nigel Farage, Chancellor Douglas Carswell and Foreign Sec. Neil Hamilton(additionally his handbag waving Deputy Foreign Sec. Christine).

[coremelt]

@T.M

. The leave campaign is a very small tip of a very large iceberg of discontent, if the government ignores the result of the referendum it will be political suicide

Ignoring the result might be suicide but it’s perfectly reasonable for the government to come back with “here is the actual consequences of leaving, now are you sure you still want to?”. Might be a second referendum, or might be some other way of gauging public opinion but thats perfectly possible.

[Hiker]

@T.M

**[/COLOR]
Over the past weeks I have spoken to many young people in the town centre, a great deal of their information has come from teachers and lecturers biased towards remain. I found that the longer the gap between college and real life the swing was to out. I asked my 15 year old grandson for his opinion and his reply was that when they studied the common market as a part of European history the teacher had a definite bias towards the EU.

That sounds a lot like anecdotal evidence. How many young people exactly have you spoken to about the EU, and how many teachers exactly do you know of that have a “bias” toward the EU? Enough to make a generalized statement about either group?

@T.M

There is nothing undemocratic about the people telling their government that they have gone to far. The leave campaign is a very small tip of a very large iceberg of discontent, if the government ignores the result of the referendum it will be political suicide with a general election called within months with UKIP controlling the balance of power. hopefully the leave result will go ahead in the autumn. . then we will be able to get on with other matters such as an English Parliament

I have not called the leave campaign undemocratic. I have stated that there is no sound reason to call the EU undemocratic. At least in this thread no one has presented one.
As for the “large iceberg of discontent”: I am sure that exists. But it has little to do with the EU. If it had, you would see it melt away nicely after Brexit. Don’t hold your breath.

[Waymore]

@coremelt

Ignoring the result might be suicide but it’s perfectly reasonable for the government to come back with “here is the actual consequences of leaving, now are you sure you still want to?”. Might be a second referendum, or might be some other way of gauging public opinion but thats perfectly possible.

Do you seriously not see something wrong and petty with throwing out the results of the referendum just because your side lost?

Isn’t it reasonable to assume that this is more evidence to the “leave” voters that the pro-EU crowd isn’t interested in including them in the governing process, but instead wish to dictate to them?

[asahi]

@davidm

This has been going viral. It’s a comment from the Financial Times.
You tell us: voters chose to leave the EU. Now what? | Financial Times

A post-factual democracy – a trans-Atlantic phenomenon, I’m afraid. I was somehow under the impression that Europe was not as susceptible to lies, fear-mongering, and demagoguery as we in the U.S. apparently have become, but maybe I was wrong.

The troubling consequence of the Brexit is that it is most likely just the beginning of an inward turn among many of the world’s major countries. We’re returning to the era of nationalism. This occurs at a time when we’re increasingly faced with the threat of global climate catastrophe. We need cooperation now more than ever, but I’m fearful that we’re returning to an era of increased competition instead.

[JohnT]

Nm

[Hector_St_Clare]

@coremelt

Ignoring the result might be suicide but it’s perfectly reasonable for the government to come back with “here is the actual consequences of leaving, now are you sure you still want to?”. Might be a second referendum, or might be some other way of gauging public opinion but thats perfectly possible.

As a hardcore Brexit supporter, I think this would be fair. I’d support “Leave” no matter what the consequences might be, on general principle, but I think it’s fair to let people know exactly what they will be choosing. My side will have a couple years to make its case to people.

[Leaper]

Especially because there were apparently people who voted Leave as a kind of protest vote, but didn’t think it’d actually win…? Obviously, this segment is probably not all that huge, but still. Sheesh.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who’s been participating in the thread: thanks!

I’ve actually learned a lot more about the vote, the campaigns, etc. here in this thread than I am from general “real” news media. The Straight Dope continues it’s mission!

[John_Mace]

What would happened if Cameron didn’t resign?

[Rick_Kitchen]

Will Boris Johnson become the first foreign-born Prime Minister?

[Raygun99]

Almost 100 years too late for that.

[Rick_Kitchen]

Thanks.

[Raygun99]

I suppose one could make the case that Law was born within the British Empire, at least, and Canada was not even a Dominion at that point.

[Rick_Kitchen]

So Boris is actually descended from British royalty, huh? As well as some Turkish guy.

[Peremensoe]

@Raygun99

I suppose one could make the case that Law was born within the British Empire, at least, and Canada was not even a Dominion at that point.

Similarly, two earlier PMs (Earl of Shelburne, Duke of Wellington) were born in the 18th-century Kingdom of Ireland.

[coremelt]

@Waymore

Do you seriously not see something wrong and petty with throwing out the results of the referendum just because your side lost?

You see nothing wrong with the referendum committing the UK to leave at any cost when no one knows what the actual consequences are? The leave campaign lied about EU funds going into the NHS, and they lied about immigration.

Leave campaign rows back on key immigration and NHS pledges

It’s perfectly reasonable that the actual decision to leave the EU should only be made when we know what the exact cost is.