I am compelled to comment on the answer to “why do they make saxophones in different keys?” because it’s so, well, WRONG!!! It has NOTHING to do with transposing and everything to do with the physical properties of the instrument.
A wind instrument is basically a length of tubing. The length, material, thickness etc of the tubing determine its characteristics, including its tone, range, AND its BASE KEY. You can blow into any piece of tubing, even a garden hose, and you will be able to elicit a set of notes that is determined by the characteristics listed above. That set of notes determines the key of the instrument. The lowest note it will play (all holes covered) determines the key, and the other notes are harmonics of that key. The 2nd lowest note will be the same as the first but an octave higher. The third note will be the 5th note in the scale; the next is the 4th.
Instruments were developed in certain sizes to create specific tones and ranges and the size etc then determined each one’s base key.
Hope this clears things up. Pure physics and musical theory.
So Adolphe Sax made a bunch of instruments with random shapes and sizes, then found out that by accident, most just happened to be pitched in E flat and B flat? Incredible! What a surprise!
That is the reason that Saxophones are made in different sizes. But they could, in principle, be notated in true concert pitch. Some instruments, in fact, traditionally are, but other instruments are notated so that the same written note is always the same fingering. Some instruments go both ways, like baritone horns, which can either be written in treble clef a ninth about the actual pitch or in bass clef on the true pitch. There are other issues; there is a tradition that French horns are written a fifth above the actual pitch in treble clef, but a fourth below the actual pitch when it’s in bass clef.
And there’s an older tradition that, instead of an instrument always being named with respect to C (a “Bb” instrument is one that plays a Bb when for a written C), it was named with respect to the bottom note, which was often a written D, so that an instrument in D was concert pitch and an instrument in C sounded a whole tone lower. This is still the rule for pennywhistles, tabor pipes, and other flute-type instruments (fipple or transverse) with no more than six holes—except that they’re often notated in concert pitch, anyway, or, often, in concert pitch, but in another octave.
In short, even professional musicians can get confused in this area. It’s often necessary to examine the conductor’s score—if there is one—and work out what makes musical sense.
There are multiple factors at work, and while you identified one of them, there are at least two more, one of which you discounted without justification.
The first factor is of course the physics of the instrument itself. But the question addressed in the column is not so much “why do different size instruments produce different notes” but “why do manufacturers make instruments in so many different keys”. The answer to that leads us to the other two factors.
First, they are produced in different sizes to cover different ranges – this is the factor Cecil covers.
But why do the different sizes have different keys? This is the factor Cecil glosses over, while you discount it entirely. It’s transposition – so that one only needs to learn one set of fingerings to be able to play the entire range of saxophone (or flute, or clarinet) instruments (and, perhaps even more importantly, so that the instrument’s easiest fingerings are used for its transposed key of C – the key without sharps or flats).
Is that all based in the physics of the instrument? Yes. But your answer speaks only to functionality, and doesn’t address the reasons we have transposing instruments of different pitches.
Powers &8^]
This brings back unpleasant memories of playing the oboe as a kid. Somehow I ended up as the only oboist in a wind band of probably 20 or more clarinets.
Of course, the music was scored to be easy for the majority (for them G or D), and I ended up with more sharps than I thought possible. It brings me out in a cold sweat just thinking about it. The only thing that kept me going was sitting next to an absolutely cracking flautist.
It also allowed me to switch from trumpet to baritone without having to learn new fingerings by playing baritone transposed down a major 9th and read in the teble clef, whereas someone who learned it from scratch would probably play it as non-transposing in the bass clef.
The fact that I would be playing it transposed and the guy next to me wouldn’t obviously would have nothing to with the simple phsyics of the instrument, as we’d be playing the same exact horn.
That doesn’t make sense; the oboe gets two more flats than a clarinet. Their “G or D” would be your F or C. Of course, D is the easiest key for the oboe, as for most instruments with pre-Boehm fingering.
Yes of course, you are quite right - I’ve got the transposition the wrong way round. In my defence, it was a long time ago and it was an experience I’ve tried to bury. But I do remember being given really difficult, for me, key signatures. Maybe they were playing in F which would have been easy for them, or even B flat, but it appeared diabolical to me, a lazy novice (who soon gave up altogether).
Not necessarily; most band music offers baritone/euphonium parts in both treble clef (B-flat, sounding one octave lower than the trumpet) and bass clef (concert pitch). But yes, you’re absolutely right that the difference between treble-clef baritone and bass-clef baritone has nothing to do with the construction of the instrument. (There is a construction difference between euphonia and baritones, but either instrument can play in either clef.) That’s another good counterargument to the OP.
Powers &8^]
So what about music for electric bass? Is it written in treble clef so that it matches guitar fingering? (Guitar music is already transposed up an octave, so for bass it would be transposed up two octaves.)
What was the ‘not necessarily’ referring to? The idea that most people learning baritone from scratch would learn in bass clef? I couldn’t quite follow where we were disagreeing on anything, and this one piece of info is just based on my memory of what a couple of band teachers said.
Yes, the electric bass is written two octaves low. (A guitar is already written one octave low, to make it fit better into the treble clef.) It makes the bass somewhat easier to learn. (I put it that way because, 95% of the time, the bass is played completely differently, as a single-note instrument.)
I know. It’s nuts. Transposition screws my brain, even simple full octave transposition. Whenever I see the notation “8va” or “8vb” I can never remember which one means play it higher and which one means play it lower.
I don’t believe I’ve ever seen “8vb” so that presumably must be the lower one.
I play the trumpet, and your comment jogged a memory of a time I played in a church service–I believe for Easter. Somebody wanted me to softly play the tenor part one octave up in one part of the song.
I was playing from a regular hymnal. (ie, written for piano, not trumpet.) The hymn was written in either 3 or 4 sharps–but the person accompanying me on the piano didn’t like playing in sharps, so she wanted to play it in flats. So–
#1, I had to transpose from sharps to flats.
#2, I had to transpose from THAT key to the key that trumpets are in.
#3, I had to transpose the tenor notes to their new fingering one octave up.
Bass guitar (and bass viol) is written in the bass (F) clef, and an octave transposition is assumed. I hope that’s not open to question.
Let’s clear up the 8va/vb stuff. 8va, meaning “at the octave”, and 15ma (two octaves) are typically used above the treble staff. 8va can be written below the bass staff, although an octave transposition is assumed for many bass instruments without mentioning it. 15ma below the bass staff would be out of reasonable range for anything.
It is not recommended putting the 8va below the treble staff or above the bass. Consider using a more appropriate clef; that’s why we have different clefs. If there is confusion, use of “alta” (above) or “bassa” (below) can be appended.
A dotted line is usually used from the start of the transposition to the end. The first note after the end should say “loco” to remind the player to discontinue the octaves. If the transposed passage is very long, you could dispense with the dotted line and say “8va sempre” (always) to make the music look a little cleaner.
I think “vb” is a Hollywoodism that’s intended to mean “an octave down,” but it’s best to use conventional notation to avoid confusion.
My references? Many years of working in professional music notation, plus Gardner Read, “Music Notation, 2nd Ed.,” and Carl A. Rosenthal, “Practical Guide to Music Notation,” and I’m sure I can dig up others if necessary.
