Prejudice is really eye-opening in person.

In My Humble Opinion
1

The sorts of experiences I am going to describe may seem totally ordinary, not even worth sharing, to people from certain parts of the country - maybe even other liberal cities, for all I know.

But I’m from Seattle, one of the three most liberal cities in the US (Portland, Seattle, San Francisco). We’re really liberal here. Atheism is really common. Bigotry is really frowned upon.

So for me, finding out about bigotry in the first person has been a really eye-opening experience. It’s different from reading about bigotry in the newspaper or hearing about it on TV. When it’s being said right to you, it sounds really strange, and you’re sort of like “wow…”

I remember talking to a girl who was going to go to Shoreline Community College. I told her that there were three general groups there: older students going back to college, Asian immigrants, and bad high school students who couldn’t go anywhere else but CC. I said it very matter-of-factly. She then informed me that she “didn’t really like Asians that much.” I just had no idea what to say. I was like “whoah…”

The other night, my friend Eric was drunk off his ass. He was making noise and waking up the housemates. I told him to quiet down, and had to resort to a harsh tone and some expletives before he finally said “okay, okay, I’ll be quiet. Don’t be such a Jew about it.”

This sort of thing really seems strange, in person. It’s just so different to have somebody you actually know and consider to be your friend betray total bigotry.

I’m sure many of you grew up in areas where racism was really common. But has anybody else with a fairly liberal upbringing and/or liberal surroundings been flabbergasted when people you know expressed their bigotry in fairly clear terms?

2

Funny you should say that about Seattle. I had my only personal experience with racism there.

My roommate and I were driving home from downtown, and an Indian couple in another car didn’t like something my roommate did. The female half of the couple glared at us, and then upon seeing we were both Asian, pulled her eyelids flat in an exaggerated replication of Asian eyes.

I was offended. I mean, if you’re going to mock Asians, you gotta push forward some fake buck teeth too.

3

Very offensive, and kind of strange given that, as Indians, they’re Asian too.

4

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘fairly liberal’–are moderates and conservatives all racists then? :dubious: I can’t describe my family and/or hometowns as anything but moderate to conservative, but I’ve witnessed very little overt racism in my life.

The only actual time I can think of is once when living in San Jose (I was about 25), I was talking on the phone with a woman I knew somewhat, who started talking about a conservative writer she liked very much, who was black. She said that he was very well-educated and well-spoken. It took me several minutes to figure out what she had meant by that (that he didn’t have a strong ‘black’ accent, etc.)–by the time I realized, I was off the phone. I’d never heard anyone say anything like that before. (Likewise, I have learned about most of the black stereotypes from people talking about what they avoid, like “Oh no, my husband won’t touch fried chicken or watermelon…” and I would go :confused: and need it explained.)

:dubious:It’s a big continent. I doubt that South Asians consider East Asians to be near relatives. I mean, obviously the incident is offensive and wrong, but I don’t see why you would think it extra strange for the reason you give.

5

So did you.
Don’t mistake “Seattle nice” for an absence of racism.

6

I was referring to the expression of racism, not whatever demons lurk inside our Nirvana-Latte-Microsoft-BohoChic souls.

Good clarification, though. Thanks.

7

I don’t understand the Jew comment. Isn’t the Jew stereotype that they’re sneaky money grubbers? I’m not aware of a Jew stereotype involving wanting people to keep their voice down.

8

Jewish mother = Pro nagger

9

There was my grandfather. Either he got worse about it in his old age, or I just never noticed it as a kid. Imagine a happy Archie Bunker.

A while after I moved to Boston, we were talking on the phone. My grandfather was a huge baseball fan. I mentioned having gone to Fenway Park, and I might even go to New York to catch a game at Yankee Stadium. He’d never go to New York City, he told me. Why not, I asked. “Too many Jews, Eric.” He said it like it was the most natural thing in the world.

On the other hand, he could be the best friend you ever had. He ran a used book sale for the SPCA in Sacramento; don’t know how much money he raised for them over the years. At his funeral, a woman from the local humane society told me how he found an abandoned kitten in a dumpster. He took it to the shelter, said “this cat is going to live” and wrote them a check. And the cat did; became their tester to see if dogs could be adopted out to houses that also had cats.

I never saw him be mean to anyone. I don’t know if anyone was hurt by his bigotry, or if he just closed himself off to certain experiences. He bought me my first Legos when I was 7; the fancy set with wheels and everything. I probably played with those more than any other toy. I owe some of what I am to having known him.

10

I grew up in the flaming-liberal DC suburbs. I was used to the politically correct bigotry, i.e. old male WASPs are the root of all evil. So when I started college in North Carolina, I heard stuff that definately made me cringe. The other white males would let their guard down around me since I was “one of them.” The dorm was the first place I ever heard the word “Jew” used as a verb. I also learned that old myth about Jews having horns. There were other things but usually it was the boldness with which it was said that was shocking rather than the sentiment. I had heard rascist stuff as a little kid, but always spoken carefully, because the speaker was always aware that it was sort of wrong.

11

Sounds like somebody’s never played much online gaming. You can hardly play for a couple of hours without hearing something at least as offensive as the things you said in the OP. Usually much worse.

12

God, those things in the OP hardly make me wince at all. :slight_smile: Not that they’re not bad, but as far as things go, meh.

Most of my family and lots of Indians don’t like blacks or Muslims. I joke that the one thing worse than bringing a black man home for a date would be a Muslim man; if it was the other way around (Muslim then black) I think she might actually cheer. A black Muslim…well, heart attack time, I guess.

Anyway most of my family harbors some racism. I know my brother, whom I love dearly, doesn’t trust black people. He knows he cannot air his views in front of me, and I don’t challenge him on it - I am not the keeper of his ideas. Personally I think that’s one of the problems with us all getting along, that we have to correct not only behavior but thought. If he treats black people the same but secretly considers them inferior, what’s it to anyone, and how will getting up in his face help at all?

As for the Indian/Asian thing, you have got to be kidding. White people can never ever be as racist as Indians and Asians are to * each other. * :slight_smile:

Oh. One thing. The last time I experienced some pretty overt racism was right here in my own town. Upstate NY is not exactly a bastion of right-thinking all the time, but Albany usually tends to be pretty open-minded and I was surprised to say the least. It happens everywhere.

13

You are correct. And now I have yet another reason not to start online gaming.

14

There’s a guy at the gaming store I go to that uses fairly offensive language all the time, (not just about race or ethnicity) and for awhile all his “jew” this and “jew” that was sort of humorous because he was just being “that offensive guy”. But now it’s starting to get not that funny, I think I’m seriously going to ask him to cut it way back lest I be tagged with being okay with humorously intended racism by association by not saying anything.

15

I learned a lot about my family’s “brand” of racism during the election. My parents are “victims” :rolleyes: of White Flight. While they have always lead perfectly happy lives alongside black people, they still have some deep distrust/dislike of them.

My parents are born and raised democrats. Dad has been a union member since 1969. My aunts are quite poor, non-religious, and most of the people they work with are black as they live and work in the inner city.

Everything about them pointed to Obama being the best candidate to represent their interests. If you’d talk to them about the election, and try to figure out why they were going to vote Republican (or not vote at all) the only thing we could determine about their choice was that they could NOT bring themselves to vote for a black guy.

It was indeed jarring to me to witness this.

16

I know several people who consider themselves to be very liberal who can’t stand Jews. There is one individual in particular who takes every opportunity to refer to them as greedy, moneyhungry and whining crybabies.

This same individual thinks it’s racist to advance yourself at the expense of blacks or hispanics (no, he is neither black nor hispanic…just crazy). In the sense that if you apply for a job you should always make sure to let a black or hispanic competitor take it if you are Asian or White.

Indian immigrants are among the most racist people I’ve met. Many of them harbor crazy views of black people. Shit, Indians are racist against other Indians (North vs. South). And while I can’t say they hate East Asians in general, a goodly proportion dislike the Chinese in particular.

Generally speaking, Hindus and Muslims hate each other on the inside, no matter how openminded they can be about anything else. It generally flows that upper middle class Hindus think of the majority of Indian muslims as undereducated, fundamentalist, backwards and intent on breeding them out of existence and Muslims focus on the fact that Hindus are idolators who are going to hell.

There are no shortage of examples I could come up with but yes, minorities can be terribly racist towards other minorities even while complaining about how they are discriminated against by white people.

I could go on and on. If you really want the honest truth, for all that WASPs/Americans get a bad rap I find the average well-educated American to be more openminded than members of my own family (my immediate family excluded) or my own ethnicity. This doesn’t take away from the fact that I find some of the “outreach efforts” hilarious but f*ck, sometimes they try more than the people you’d think would be pretty openminded.

17

I was very proud of a close friend during the election, Zipper. I know he has harsh views of blacks and while he knows not to make too many comments around me, I know what he’s thinking. He was crazy about McCain. After the election, though, he told me, sheepishly, that he had voted for Obama. See? People can learn!

Oh, one more thing. There are quite a few Jew jokes in my SO’s family - but it’s because my SO’s brother is married to a Jewish girl, and 97% of the jokes are made by him, right in front of her - it’s a form of joking love. So context is mportant too.

Besides that, sign me up for everything anu-lala says.

18

Which on the Virginia side are currently represented by a Congressman who thinks the Jews started the Iraq war. Prejudice shows up all over the place.

19

I grew up in the same area as Hypno-Toad. When I was living in South Carolina (Horry County), racism was much more overt than what I grew up with. I worked with a woman that was really nice and friendly. I mentioned to her once that we were going to a picnic at a State Park. She told me to make sure I didn’t use the pool there - that’s where all the black people went to swim. Another guy I knew told me he was going to have a party for his workmates, but was having it in his backyard because he worked with black people. He wouldn’t be able to let them in his house, so it was going to be an outside barbecue. That was especially weird…he liked his workmates, wanted to have them to his house, but wouldn’t actually allow them to go inside his house.

20

Huh. I come from a weird place on this one. My Mother’s Great-Great Grandmother was a slave in GA. Every other definable part of my heritage is Irish Catholic.

I have lived most of my life within 20 miles of Washington, DC, so you couldn’t get a much more liberal and integrated area.

My Mother was raised to believe that she “might have had some Jewish ancestors” because “passing” was necessary to succeed in the small GA town where she grew up. And the quiet lie was accepted because her family owned a township of land in the area and were very well off. (Not money rich, but you know. . .) I only found out because two elderly relatives marveled at my blonde hair and talked about it thinking I was too young to understand.

My Dad is from New Hampshire. He had never seen a black person until he got to West Point, and was soon thereafter shipped off to Vietnam. He had already internalized a great many fallacies before he had any real information, and isn’t really one to delve into his own psyche or change long-held beliefs. He is also the sort of person who worries a great deal “what the neighbors will think” and is in complete denial about my Mother’s ethnicity. (But so is she, so fair is fair.)

My Mother’s two sisters both married black men, so the majority of my cousins are either obviously black, or Mid-Eastern in appearance. Ten years ago the former received more negative attention due to their appearance, but in the last five years the latter have considered leaving the US for the same reason, and one did.

I have experienced predjudice from every side. I make no bones about my heritage, I am very proud to come from strong people who have survived and thrived despite extreme privation and abuse. this is true on both sides of my family.

My brother and I, through some twist of genetics, both got the blonde-haired blue-eyed Irish genes, despite Mom’s brown eyes and dark wiry hair. So I’ve experienced the “one of us” types of confessions described by Hypno-Toad.

  • Black folks have hated me for “passing”. (Um, check the photos on my desk, see those cousins there?)
  • White folks have hated me for “fooling them” (See above)
  • An Indian coworker was overheard to refer to me as a “mongrel.”
  • At a job interview in Dayton OH the interviewer felt it necessary to make clear that prejudice would not be tolerated if I came to work there. (Because Blonde hair, blue eyes + Southern accent must equal racist, right?)
  • A Korean friend berated me for “pretending to understand” what it’s like to experience racism.
  • Two black women tried to beat me up for “taking their men” when I entered a grocery store with a black boyfriend.
  • Celtling’s Dad has not dared to tell his own father that his daughter has African bloodlines. (His Dad is from Cleveland, with German Background. He actually believes that black folks are not capable of driving safely, and should be kept off the streets after dark. I don’t hate many people, but I hate this man.)

In the end I find that there are two kinds of racism, unthinking, and deliberate. The unthinking kind is when a joke is just so funny that someone repeats it despite it’s inherent offensiveness, or when a person repeats a phrase they’ve heard all their lives without stopping to analyze where it came from.

The deliberate kind is different, and is where I think the “free speech” argument has to stop. Many moons ago, I was in charge of screening new applicants in a company I worked for. The boss asked me to just make a little scribble in the margin if the applicant was “dark”. His idea was to have the testers grade down the answers of those applicants “so we couldn’t get in trouble.” I quietly called the ACLU, and got the heck out of that company.

It’s really important to recognize though, that it’s a small minority of people who feel this way, and the “deliberates” are an infinitesimal minority. Don’t imagine that it’s lurking in every mind around you just because one or two let their defects be known. If you are not Native American, you are a transplant like everyone else, and those who are in denial about that deserve our pity.