While Chelsea lurks in the shadows…
Here’s a good article about that re: Biden’s age. (and I realize now after reading the article I’m a part of it by posting this and other things I’ve posted).
WHAT THE INFORMATION OPERATION ABOUT JOE BIDEN’S AGE LOOKS LIKE
One reason Joe Biden is behind in the polls, I’m fairly convinced, is because Democrats relentlessly participate in an organized campaign to use Biden’s age to dehumanize him.
Whether it involves making reasonable critiques of the nonsense focus by the press on Biden’s age, loud fights about his age and how one might replace him, or the collapsing of all problems with Robert Hur’s report into his geezer comments, Democrats talk about Biden’s age all the time, even while complaining that the NYT does too.
(bolding mine) (also, I didn’t fully catch the context of your post so just replying to NYT and Biden’s age part of it, if that was part of it).
What is even more frustrating to me than the NYT, Ezra Klein, Axelrod, Carville and Jon Stewart pushing the “Biden is too old” angle are all the people, particularly on this board, who ignore the impact this crap is potentially having on the Democratic electorate and hand wave away any and all polls that reflect this is a concern for voters because they are convinced it is too early to pay attention to polls. DJT is a terrible candidate so it is difficult to see past Biden voters realistically voting for him in November but the problem I see is those voters are more likely to sit out the election. That is all it may take to give the GOP the swing states needed to put Trump back in the WH.
Your post dovetails nicely with the context of mine to which you were responding. Thanks for the link you posted.
It’s just the current iteration of the old ruse, “Of course it ain’t true, but I want to make the son-of-a-bitch deny it.” Once “people are talking about it”, you either talk about it, giving the thing more air, or you’re “avoiding the question”, which still gives the thing air.
This works better for Trump against Biden, because they really only have the one thing, Biden Is Too Old. So they bang on that every day. But with Biden against Trump? Do you bang on January 6th? His two impeachments? His 91 indictments? His hundreds of millions in fines? His theft of classified documents? His sabotaging of border legislation? His plans to weaponize the federal government? His obviously declining mental state? His willingness to abandon NATO? His willingness to abandon Ukraine? And that’s just the top ten list.
This was also a fantastic share – thanks, @Pazu .
I’d even go farther than “reasonable skepticism” – Jay Kuo’s piece aims to eviscerate much of the NYT/Siena poll methodology:
If you see a poll and half the women are voting for Trump (46% apiece in the most recent NYT/Siena poll - b), something went wrong in the polling sample. If women voted like they did in 2020, which we should assume would at least be the case especially since Dobbs , that’s an 11 point difference from this poll.
…
Here’s a thing I’m sure the Dean Phillips campaign would love to see become reality: The NYT/Siena poll has Phillips at 12 percent support among Democrats.
Really? Because last time I checked, in the actual official contests that have been held, his actual vote haul averages 1.5 percent.
…
The news in this poll was partway decent for Biden when it came to young voters age 18-29. He leads Trump by 13 points among them, 54 to 41 percent—but that’s still around half the spread that other major polls have on this age group. But when it comes to messaging on the youth vote, the NYT prefers to emphasize the negatives, and its own data seems at odds with itself.
…
When the Times interviewed Latino voters, an important part of the Democratic base especially in the battleground states of Nevada and Arizona, it focused nearly completely on English-speaking respondents. The result was a 46-40 skew by Latinos in favor of Trump , which defies everything we know about Latino voting patterns, even if there has been some erosion. Looking more closely, the NYT poll, which now has many now wondering if Latino support has collapsed for Biden, had a whopping 97 percent of Latinos interviewed in English.
NBC News’s Adrian Carrasquillo took strong issue with the NYT’s approach.
I’m a broken record on this but the problem with these numbers is the lack of interviewing Spanish-speaking Latinos. Univision had a poll of 1400 Latinos in the fall that showed Biden doubling Trump with Spanish-speakers but up only 46%-43% with English-speakers.
The 46%-40% Trump lead below makes a lot more sense if a confusing 97% of interviews are in English.
I think you should acknowledge it. That’s not agreeing with it being a problem or not, just acknowledging his age and/or that it’s a concern to someone else.
If someone were to say he’s old too old and can’t do x, y, z. I’d say yes, he’s 81 yrs old (or old, I’m fine with Biden being “old”) but he’s done these x, y, z things (probably the things they are complaining about). He’s pretty good at working with others - did you know a R bill got more D’s to vote for it…stuff like that. I’d also throw in that Warren Buffett is 93 years old and I’d give him every single dollar of mine if he’d let me…(find someone else who is old but who I know they have no problem with). However, I wouldn’t argue with them and say they are wrong.
So, always acknowledge someone’s concerns. That’s good listening. And then actually discuss what it means. The people who are “worried” just usually assume it’s a problem. Here, between these two candidates, it doesn’t mean anything to me and I would explain why.
It’s the Three Stooges Syndrome again.
I haven’t gotten into the weeds about their foreign language interviewing practices. But according to 538, we are talking about the currently best of 277 ranked pollsters:
Think the New York Times is a Republican paper? Cancel your subscription.
I wonder a little why everyone seems to think the bandwagon effect (vote for the winner) is bigger than the underdog effect (vote for the candidate who needs your support the most). Research seems mixed.
Okay, fine, what should be done about it, assuming this isn’t a “replace Biden with someone younger right away”? Can’t you argue that attempts to engage the issue directly will just Streisand-ize it even further?
I don’t think so, because unlike pictures of Streisand’s beach house which were largely unknown before Streisand made a stink about them, Biden looking old is obvious to anyone who has seen him speak. He has a raspy voice, slow movements and doesn’t project well. If you ignore the content of his speeches he looks positively ancient compared to the lively booming speeches that Trump gives.
These of course have no direct bearing on his ability to lead, and if you do look listen to the content of their speeches, Biden is clearly much more compos mentis than Trump, but it is a factor in some voters minds and ignoring it won’t make it go away.
Then I don’t know what should be done besides replacing Biden. If you’re not going to do that, I don’t see the point in all the handwringing besides depressing enthusiasm for an overall good candidate.
The answer is to acknowledge (at least privately) that it is an issue with voters and find ways to counteract it. I think the dark Biden meme is helpful in this regard as it projects an image of secret strength. Emphasize Biden’s quick wit, while pointing out Trumps decline. Heck, I don’t know, maybe get him some voice lessons to improve his presentation style. But just ignoring it in hopes that if its never mentioned it will just disappear on its own isn’t the answer.
By the way, I have faith that the whizz kids behind Biden’s campaign know a whole lot more than you are I do in terms of what is needed and am fully confident that they are coming up with a plan.
Biden’s appearance on Jimmy Fallon’s show was a nice start. He wasn’t Bill Clinton playing saxophone on the Arsenio Hall show in ‘92 level cool, but it was a good start. Now he needs to build on it with more public appearances, whether in person at rallies, on TV, or social media.
I don’t think there is a reason to replace Biden at this point and I haven’t advocated for that. But I do think the issue has to be addressed rather than ignored. I am waiting to see how he comes across on Thursday with the State of the Union speech. IIRC, last year he came across a fairly vigorous for a man his age. Maybe he still has that in him.
I also felt he did a very good job a couple weeks back on Late Night with Seth Meyers. More appearances like that could be helpful because he has a good sense of humor. Kimmel, Colbert, etc might be good ideas. Or even a cameo walk on to a SNL sketch. Put him on The View which would be a mostly crowd. Appearances on college campuses could be a good idea as well though with the Middle East situation that might be something that would require more careful planning.
And as Buck Godot says the Dark Brandon stuff tends to go over very well.
Also, a really well funded GOTV plan is crucial to him getting reelected as well.
ETA: What FlikTheBlue said.
I also thought his speech at the border was really good. He didn’t look too old to me then. Stuff like that will help.
So…make public appearances? Something he has to and wants to do anyway? I guess I’m a little confused what “addressing” it means.
And I absolutely do think there are arguments to be had about effectiveness of timing; I could very well see too early efforts being dismissed or forgotten in November, which may be part of what you see as whistling past the graveyard.
I think with something like this the earlier the better. We aren’t talking about highlighting specific actions and incidents, but more in terms of fighting unconscious impressions. For that you need to make those impressions early. If you wait too late confirmation bias sets in and those first impressions are harder to dislodge.
If anyone (that matters for the purposes of this discussion) is paying attention.
Has he wanted to do them? The impression I had is that Biden and his team had been following a “let’s keep Joe hidden as much as possible” type strategy during 2023.