I’m sixteen, female, and generally considered pretty good-looking.
I’ve done some oberservations in the past about stuff kind of similar to this. For example, they have wheelchairs at the mall. (And there were lots of them- I was not using a wheelchair which someone else might have real need of.) My friends and I decided to experiment. Not one guy checked me out while I was in that wheelchair, although some did when I was just walking around.
Also, I get better responses from guys if I’m wearing makeup and a cute outfit. However, I’m not sure if this is because of the guys or because of me. I feel more confident when I think I look good; that might be what the guys are picking up on.
If I’m wearing something tight and revealing, I will get much more attention than if I’m not, and guys will be much more likely to help me.
I realize that this isn’t the exact same thing as the OP was asking, but thought that it was interesting and might be relevent.
Oh, and another thing that I remembered: One of my guy friends has a girlfriend who is rather overweight. Mutual friends of ours will, when referring to her, point this fact out quite often. They say very derogatory things about it; I frequently have to request that they stop. They seem to be hung up on the fact that his SO is overweight, and totally missing what a great person she is.
I have a sister in law, now in her forties, who was a model, and was (still is) quite attractive. She fully expects everyone in the world to wait on her. Even her maid of honor at her wedding said that she is simply used to be catered to because of her looks, by male and female alike.
Slight hijack here. The daughter of one of my friends was five foot ten, with a 36C 20 32 figure at the age of sixteen. For the first 15 years she was the ideal daughter, girl scout, reliable baby sitter and straight A student. Then she blossomed. In the space of 18 months she failed out of public school, private school, and Catholic school. She really could not focus on anything other than who was going out with who and what to wear, and was constantly fighting with her parents. After visiting several therapists and psychiatrists, one told the mother that the girl had “Blue Eyed Blonde” syndrome. By that she meant the daughter was so attractive that everyone responded in a big way to it, and she simply could not handle the attention at 16 years old. The only “cure” was to hope she matured quickly enough to regain a more normal life. Anyone else ever hear of “Blue Eyed Blonde” syndrome?
I clicked your link for the “Hot or Not” site, but I find the whole premise of that site to be utterly loathsome and inhuman. So I deliberately fuck with the results by giving every woman a 10. I believe that all women are beautiful and this shallow, superficial rating system is “just wrong.”
None taken - my apologies for responding a little, shall we say, vigorously to your post.
Me too. But this is stuff that is conciously known … what I find fascinating is the idea that, perhaps, there have been effects on her personality that can’t be known, of such a minor nature that they would only show up in statistics.
Would an unattractive woman be more likely to be a libertarian laissez-faire capitalist because, of course, it’s a dog-eat-dog world out there and everybody looks after their own interests?
Would an attractive woman be just that microscopically more likely to be a Socialist because, of course, people do enjoy looking out for each other, co-operating and helping?
Rather an extreme example, but it is the sort of thing I mean. “Blue Eyed Blonde Syndrome”, eh? Well, my nomenclature is more politically correct … for once!
Okay to add another dimension to the discussion, do you think that confidence plays a huge part? If someone spends a life feeling attractive doesn’t that add to their confidence level? Yeah I would say I have landed 90% of the jobs I have ever gotten because of the way I look but it’s because I can go into an interview, feel attractive and intellegent and confident.Believe it or not, not every attractive person is a b**ch. I think confidence sells as well as visual attractiveness. Haven’t you ever noticed someone across the room who was just average looking but seemed like they were really confident and it made you wonder what they had?
As far as feeling that something is owed, I think it may be a maturity issue. I was a total spoiled brat in high school but once I grew up I realized a lot was more important than looks and no one owed me anything. I am not bashing anyone but sometimes I think that attractive people get a bad rap as well as having some advantages. I am always apprehensive around a group of women I don’t know - especially if they are less than attractive. I think it’s easier of at least one is more attractive than me. Sometimes people are vicious without provocation because of preconceived notions of “blue eyed blondes”
Survival of the Prettiest: The Science of Beauty, by Nancy L. Etcoff The Human Face, by Brian Bates with John Cleese (yes, that John Cleese) Social Psychology of Facial Appearance (Springer Series in Social Psychology),
by Ray Bull and Nichola Rumsey Appearance Is Everything: The Hidden Truth Regarding Your Appearance Discrimination, by Steve Jeffes
So it sounds like you’re wondering if beautiful people think people in general are nicer, more helpful, etc., than the not-so-beautiful, because they are treated better, get more perks, etc. Then as the beauty fades, the helpfulness also fades, and what does this do to the once-beautiful’s psyche?
I’m not sure I agree with the premise that beautiful people think people in general are nicer, although it has been shown that a more attractive person is more likely to be assisted or get the job, because there are plenty of people who are just not nice to anyone, and attractive people get crapped on at times just like the rest of us. I think the beautiful person knows why they are getting better treatment and it’s not because they perceive people as just being nicer than others perceive them to be.
I do think the psyche is definitely affected as beauty ages and she has to face the fact that she isn’t the prettiest girl in the room anymore, that things like a sense of humor and confidence are now necessary to “get attention.” While a not-so-attractive person may have been growing and learning how to be a better person all along, the aging beautiful person now has to catch up. (In general, folks, I know I’m generalizing). It seems like it would be terrifying for an extraordinarily beautiful person to contemplate aging and the loss of that beauty which in a way defines their life, so much so that they desperately try to stay young-looking while not realizing that they will still be beautiful to most people when they’re old if they achieve wisdom, humor and self-acceptance.
What you call the Blue-Eyed Blonde Syndrome was examined by Hermann Hesse in his short story “Augustus.” A baby is born and his mother sees a funny little man who says she can make one wish and he will grant it. So she innocently wishes that her son will be loved by everyone. As little Augustus grows up, it becomes clear that her wish has come true and everyone loves him unconditionally, unreservedly.
Of course, you can guess where this is headed. It doesn’t take long for Augustus to figure out that no matter how rotten he behaves, it won’t make any difference. So by the time he’s a young man he has turned into the most selfish, abusive, thoughtless snot that ever lived. When his mother is revisited by the funny little man and asks to reverse her terrible mistake, her wish is granted. Now everybody sees Augustus for what he truly is, and hates him. Outcast from society, he loses everything. But this being Hesse, he finally learns how to transcend and find true inner happiness without taking from anyone.
Susanann, are you saying that men can’t have beards and look good? 'Cause if you are, I speak for all my bearded brothers when I say you don’t know what you’re talking about. To put it mildly. My wife, for one, would never want to see me beardless. And her estimation is not to be taken lightly. I don’t care in the slightest about your prejudice. There are lots of women who love bearded men, and long-haired bearded men at that. Like Jesus.
Doesn’t the reaction to the ‘beautiful’* person go both ways though? I know I tend to be intimidated by very gorgeous people and interect less with them than with average people.
*I would say ‘gorgeous’, actually, if just referring to the physical appearance. ‘Beauty’ can arrive by a smile in a plain face…
I can’t contribute to the question regarding factual research, but I can say that I’ve noticed that as I’ve gotten older, the world has gotten less nice and helpful. But the world is still, overall, a friendly and helpful place. Handsome young men just don’t rush to do nice things for me anymore. <sigh>
I know what you’re talking about here, and I’m guilty of prejudice myself. I do have a tendency to be suspicious of extraordinarily attractive men and women, especially those that dress and present like someone from a fashion mag. Especially when you add sweet-talking and charming to a man’s personality. It’s not fair, and I recognize it’s wrong, but the hairs on the back of my neck just stand up. For example, the first time I met a co-worker’s girlfriend at a work-related function, I made assumptions about her intelligence, genuineness (is that a word?), and likeability because… well, she looked like a Barbie doll. Complete with Big Blonde Hair, Big Bubble Boobs falling out of her blouse, and Long Red Fingernails. But I spent a little time with her, and was surprised (!) and pleased to find that she was a warm and funny lady.
I think a portion has to do with upbringing as well. I’m a little off the subject but my Mom was a beautiful woman who would not hesitate to whack me if she saw an ounce of conceit in me. Now I have a daughter of my own. She has generally a sweet and kind nature but I remind her on occaision that intellect is far more important than style and that being truly beautiful comes from the inside. I really like Regina’s view point. I don’t think attractive people have any misconceptions about the kindness of the world because they get the ugliness from the opposite side. You may have bus fare and no girl friends. And the guy you met may have no clue (or care) that you graduated valedictorian or that you have a sense of humor because he just wants to see you naked…the grass always seems greener doesn’t it?
Hmm, that 20/20 interview is ringing bells for me. Seems like it’s been mentioned in previous threads, but when I looked all I found was this lame thread in GD. I can call it lame and get away with it because it’s so old, I’m hoping.
One issue that’s been briefly alluded to here is that “beauty” is more of a social choice than an intrinsic quality. Most men and women can push themselves well into the upper few percentiles on the “attractiveness” scale by investing enough time and resources. Barring an actual physical deformity, I’d be surprised if everyone couldn’t at least boost themselves into the “pleasant” range. For example, if you have an “unattractive” body type, you can become an exercise fanatic and buy only custom-made designer clothes. If you have “unattractive” facial features, you can invest your money (and time!) in an expensive makeup regimen and plastic surgery, etc., etc.
Now this is exactly what most A-List celebrities do. Their physical appearance is the result of a set of conscious, calculated decisions designed to create a specific effect.
In other words, extreme attractiveness isn’t an attribute, it’s a behavior. Moreover, it’s a behavior that signals a great deal of information. It is said that you can’t judge a book by it’s cover. This, of course, is ridiculous. Everybody judges books by their covers because you must have some very quick method to determine which books you should devote your limited resources to reading.
The same thing, for better or for worse, applies to people. The appearance you choose, especially on the extreme ends of the spectrum, does signal information to others. If, for example, someone spends a lot of time and money on creating an extremely attractive appearance, it signals a) that they have opted to use (albeit not necessarily exclusively) a particular strategy for dealing with the world and b) they have not spent those resources (especially time) on something else. For example, if some minor celebrity spends an average of four hours per day working on his or her personal appearance, that is four hours the minor celebrity did not spend reading Sartre or posting on informative and fascinating message boards.
No. I know lots of women like beards on men, and here I am thinking of trimmed and neat beards.
What I was thinking when I said that, was unkept beards, and I had an example in mind when I said that.
My mother, cousin, and I just yesterday were discussing a particular man with long hair and a beard, who my mother was very disturbed and frightened of(because of his beard and long hair- pony tail) after seeing him enter a house.
I also thought of a young girl(age 9) that I know, who recently met with a school counselor. The school counselor wore a beard, and she would not talk to him at all just because he had a beard.
I had no experience. I didn’t wear the clothes. I couldn’t sell the clothes. I was stunned on the till (they had a really bizzare way of tallying up at the end of the night). Basically, I was useless.
However, the kept me on until I finally quit after 9 months. Why, you ask? The manager said that I “Looked good in the store.”
So- does being pretty have advantages? Yep. Can you get buy on prettyness alone? Nope. Would I rather lose 30 IQ points or get an unfortunate facial burn? Burn, SVP.
However, I will point out a disadvantage - and, No, I’m not whinging. I’ve dated a lot of men that were quite dissapointed to find out that I’m not acutally a Barbie Doll - you know, I poop, grow hair, smell if I don’t bathe, etc. etc. Oddly, some fellas seemed to be really, really surprised by these things.
A very long time ago (so long ago that there is apparently no record of it online), some news program (I’m thinking 60 Minutes, but I could be wrong) did a show in which they had a random sampling of people rate the attractiveness of volunteers, and then sent those volunteers out to do things like waiting beside a disabled car and otherwise asking strangers for help. Both members of each pair were dressed in exactly the same kind of clothing and they were equally well-groomed. The researchers discovered that the attractive volunteer was always offered more help than the less attractive one (I say “less attractive” because I thought the “non-attractive” volunteer of each pair was more average-looking than butt-ugly). I remember the sequence where the women each stood next to a “disabled” car; the more-attractive woman still got more offers of help when she did nothing but stand there than the less-attractive woman got when she actively appealed to passersby.
People shown pictures of faces also consistently rate the more attractive (i.e. symmetrical) ones as being more intelligent, nicer, and more interesting than than the less attractive ones. I don’t know what effect this has on the people so favored. It would be interesting to see a study about it.