How do you handle a situation where your partner levels accusations at you that are so pattently projected that there is no possible way that this behaviour can be mistaken as anything but?
What’s more; what if the very gentlest of suggestion that he/she may want to look within and really be sure they are not in fact guilty themselves of the very things they are accusing you, is treated as a further personal insult and emotional wound you are further inflicting on him/her.
And what if, you open up to your partner and admit that you’ve made certain mistakes in your past relationships and are consciously trying to learn from those mistakes and not to repeat them because you value this relationship enough not to make the same mistakes. So you read a passage in what you believe to be a good self help book. A good place to start, you think. And you quote that passage as a sort of disclosure about where you think things went wrong for you in the past - clearly stating that this proved insightful to you alone. But instead of an acknowledgement of the insight you think you’ve achieved, or even a cohesive counter argument, you receive an angry and bitter response accusing you of sending them some criptic message and a further mortal insult.
At what point do you decide that despite the courage of your convictions and personal belief that you are doing the right thing by trying to work out your own issues, which hopefully will have a positive influence on the relationship you are in… at what point do you decide that nothing you say or do will be heard by your partner because they are closed off and afraid to be there for you while you explore these things. In fact they tell you in exactly so many words that they don’t want to be in a relationship that requires therapy. In further fact, they think that you should just get over yourself and grow up. (Funny, you think to youself, isn’t that what you are trying to do? Grow and improve.)
What if you realize that the anger and accusations the heap on you are simply their own fear that the issues you are exploring are the same issues they are desperately trying to hide from admitting to you and them selves? Do you tell your partner you think this to be true? Do you have that right?
Or when do you just stop and give up, because nothing you say is being heard and everything you say is being misinterpreted and taken out of context?
If everything you say if being misinterpreted and taken out of context, and you are in a relationship with someone who tells you to “grow up and get over yourself”, I think it is time to get out of that relationship.
Sometimes people get so angry and defensive that anything you say will be interpreted as an insult. I find it helpful to just “pause” the argument, stop talking, separate for a little while, and pick it up again when you’ve both cooled down a little and are more willing to listen. It doesn’t always work, but it might be worth a try if you’re just not getting through.
I’d say she isn’t interested in growing with you, growing into the relationship or growing within herself. She’s quite happy with who she is and wants to step into blissful permanence with no meaningful lead-in (we are talking about the gift requestor, are we not?).
I’d bid her a fond farewell…at least for a while. From where I’m sitting, she’s looking for a husband and you’re looking for a relationship. They’re not always the same thing. Sorry for your troubles.
Um, but yeah, I also agree with SnakesCatLady that if this is the normal state of the relationship (not entirely clear from your post, but it sounds like more than a one-time deal), then maybe you’ve got deeper problems than arguing techniques.
“Get out” is always the quick answer when someone complains about a mate, but we all have wounds and habits that would frustrate another. A character flaw doesn’t have to be a death sentence. If anyone out there has a relationship that would survive the close examination of others then please: write a book for the rest of us.
Everyone is capable of growing and improving. Projection isn’t really a new age idea that can be easily dismissed- the quote “When you point one finger, four more are pointing back at you” is so old I cannot even find the original author. And it isn’t a difficult concept to understand- projection is just another subconscious way of avoiding self-examination.
If she doesn’t take constructive suggestions from you- would she take them from another? Can you find any books or online references that would support your claim that she is projecting her feelings onto you?
Or is there a way you can barter with her? Offer to change, improve, or otherwise examine some of your own habits if she will agree to consider your suggestion that she look inward?
Well, she has admitedly joked about having particularly emotional PMS episodes. She is not pregnant.
But this is something else. We both seem to have some very similar insecurity triggers. Not anything resulting from any major trauma. Nothing out of the ordinary when compared to a functional segment of the population. But we seem to deal with them differently.
Let me give an example of what I mean. Suppose we both have a deep fear of of heights. My tendency to face my fears is to fly in the face of them. I’d make myself jump out of an airplane to try to overcome it. She would probably say she hates airplanes because of noise or smell or because they tend to crash. She would not even want to admit the fear itself much less talk about it’s potential cause.
I have a similar situation with my wife. She’s the love of my life, but every once in a blue moon she’ll latch onto some issue and without talking to me about it, she’ll get so angry that she’ll condemn me, so that once I find out what’s going on, it’s too late. Anything I say, no matter how reasonable, is lost. She’ll hear me, but won’t really listen to what I’m saying.
So, even though it tears me apart, I have to wait a day or two for her to calm down, at which point I can approach her and talk it out. This works because she understands that she can get a bit irrational. It also works because of some basic things I’ve pointed out to her: she has little trust in our relationship, because at some level, she’s too insecure to believe that she is the only woman for me and that she can keep me happy. And she acknowledges this. I’ve spent the last few years working on her so that she can get rid of that insecurity, and unfortunately, I’m still working. But I think I’ll get there.
I will not ever back down to her or agree with her when I know she’s wrong. I just can’t let her think that whatever she’s latched onto is true (it never is). This causes me to get more angry, but oh well-- I’m plenty mad that I’m in the position anyway.
So I wouldn’t necessarily try to get out of the relationship if you can talk it over with her when she can see things better from your point of view. If she gets angry at you (and you’re convinced it’s irrational or wrong or whatever), and she always sticks to her guns (days/weeks later), then I’d say you have a problem.
Yeah flyboy88. Our situations look remarkably similar indeed.
I do want to give a balanced view. I’m not a glutton for punishment. I do love her and there are many wonderful qualities about her that deserve every bit of my affection, attention, appreciation and respect.
But as this relationship moves from the early blushing stages of heady romance to more substantial deeper stages, these insecurity and projection issues seem to be making themselves more evident. I keep thinking we need to work with them as a way of getting closer and building trust. She seems vehemently against this idea.
If she’s against that idea, then, my friend, you’re in for a hell of a ride. You may want to start investing in Bayer and Pepto. Or, you could try not to get too emotionally invested in her (of course, you’d have to be up front with her about that). Or, you could get out. Whatever you do, I don’t envy your position. Good luck and let us know what happens.
I have to put it bluntly: if she won’t communicate with you, this relationship is off to a very, very bad start and the future is ominous. Communication is the one of the most crucial aspects of a relationship and if she’s not willing to change and open up, I don’t see where you two can be happy.
As yourself this: Is she your best friend in the entire world? If not, she’s not the woman for you. Too many relationships have passion and love but no friendship. Once those passions mellow, as they inevitably do, what do you have left?
I think that there are two kinds of people in this world: people who view relationships as an opportunity to improve themselves and their partners; and people who view relationships as “you and me against the world.” I think you, QuickSilver, may belong in the first camp. You are delighted to have someone with whom you can safely explore ways to get over past problems / resentments, etc., and who can help you becomes a better you. You likely also want to help her become a better her: shed the baggage that weighs her (and any adult) down and grow as a person. To that end, it sounds like you’ve suggested some things she ought to examine and consider correcting.
I, on the other hand (and I suspect your lady friend) are in the other camp. I want to be “you and me against the world” with my SO. I don’t want my SO to nag me, or try to make me better; I want my SO to accept me as I am. Of course, I don’t require that he abandon all hope of my improving myself; I just want him to be more subtle in his approach.
So I suspect that you and your SO have a fundamental difference in how you see the world of relationships. It may be a difference that renders you incompatible.
The bad news is that relationships don’t seem to get easier no matter how experienced or self assured you get. The good news is that you get better at knowing this and knowing what you can and cannot accept when making a decision about staying in it or ending things.
Well, a three hour conversation, an autopsy of a corpse or two from the past, a lot of patience, understanding and concerted effort from both sides and I think we’ve managed to just barely clear this hurdle. If not clear cleantly, then to at least tone down the rhetoric and come to an understanding about our respective expectations of eachother going forward.
So we’ve both come away with things we will continue to think about and work on. In the history of all the arguments I’ve ever had and their respective resolutions, this has been one of the more satisfying ones.
Dude, you know it’s gonna pain me to say so, but this doesn’t sound good.
This isn’t the first time you’ve brought up her lack of self-honesty and her questionable coping techniques, so I think it’s time for you to stop wondering whether she will change in these regards. Not to say that she won’t ever, but it seems pretty clear that she doesn’t want to change, she doesn’t think she needs to change, and you aren’t going to be able to convince her otherwise any time soon. I think you should start working on the assumption that she won’t ever change.
So, to me, the question becomes whether you can live with it. Is everything else about the relationship worth it? Will this part of her personality continue to gnaw at you? Can you be as happy as you know you deserve to be if she stays the way she is? Will her attitude impede your own self-improvement efforts?
I’m not asking you to answer these questions here and now; that process could take weeks or months. I just think that these are the kinds of questions you should spend your time on, not things like whether you should keep trying to get her to understand something she’s dead-set against understanding (even if it’s for her own good). Know what I mean?
I’m glad the long conversation went well (relatively), but I’ll honestly be very surprised if this issue doesn’t rear its ugly head again. You know I’m rooting for the two of you, though!
Thanks Misnomer. Your insight is much appreciated. I’m mindful of all the things you’ve said and I’m under no illusion that this relationship is going to involve a lot of work from both sides if it’s going to work out in the long run.
I do think, despite the rocky start and some pretty challenging hurdles still ahead, there is good will on both sides and as I mentioned earlier, many very good reasons and intrinsic good on both sides to try to make this work.
I think it’s worth mentioning again that neither she nor I are so “broken” that we need long years of therapy and thorazine to make things right. The issues we have are almost certainly run of the mill for most relationships and have largely to do with (differences in?) communication. At least that has been a running theme in my most significant ones to date. Which may be telling of something about me and the types of people I’m attracted to. Hence my conscious effort of introspection which is more dogged than I’ve ever attempted before. Unfortunately, in analyzing my own behaviour I’ve also have to question that of my partner and it’s been a tough go because she clearly is not in the same frame of mind or place as I am. The trouble partly lies in that I’m so analytical that I often forget to consult and unintentionally labour under the weight of my own assumptions/observations - which, despite my best intentions, are not always correct. The conversation last night helped to bring that to light and allow us to figure out a better understanding of the issues. Ultimately, I’m hoping we can become better at figuring stuff out together in the days/weeks/months to come.
If this relationship fails, and I really hope it doesn’t, I’d hate to feel it was because of a lack of effort to understand one another and inability/unwillingness to meet half way.
I hope it doesn’t fail, also. But if it does, in the long run, at least you’ll know that you tried to make it work and gave it the thought, effort and attention you believed it was worth. I’ve got my fingers crossed for ya!
While a agree more or less with the advice everyone else has given, one thing keeps popping back into my head:
Are you constantly trying to “fix” her? Do you always have some way to “improve” her? That’s poison in a relationship. It’s quite possible that she wants to be accepted for who she is. No one enjoys being constantly nagged for their flaws.
