Oh dear God, I’m so sorry you have to cope with that. I wish you the best of luck.
Interesting how the situation cited has nothing to do with transgender women, unless you think walking around with pants down and knife out is how trans women use the bathroom?
As for what advice to give to your daughters, maybe give them the same advice I give my sons, which is if you see anyone in the bathroom that makes you feel uncomfortable, leave and find another bathroom. Do you think daughters are the only people preyed on by creepy adults? If someone is being creepy in the bathroom, regardless of gender, then they should be reported. But please note, a transgender woman existing does not count as creepy. I guarantee any trans woman wants to get her business done as quickly as possible because of people like you who see her as a threat simply for breathing.
Why would you tell them to immediately flee and get help if they think there’s a man in the ladies room? Is that what you’d do?
I’d either say, “excuse me, i think you might be in the wrong bathroom” or just ignore him.
Now, if someone of any gender is peeping in stalls, or suspiciously hanging out rather than using the facilities, i would look for management/security. But someone walking into a stall to pee? Someone washing their hands? Someone applying makeup? Live and let live.
Fwiw, I’ve been at events that replaced the signs on the restrooms with signs that said “restroom”. Men and women went about their business. The women were careful not to stare in the direction of the urinals. I suspect more of the men used stalls than might otherwise have done so. But there were no assaults, no commotions. It was sort of nice not to have to walk as far too find a restroom. That was actual men in the rest room, a majority of the occupants, not just a handful of trans women.
They replaced what with what now?
Clearly, if the pantsless man with a knife had just said “It’s OK, I identify as a woman,” the cops would have been forced to back off and let him go about his day, because it’s legal to threaten people in bathrooms as long as you’re in the right one, according to how TERFs seem to think the world works.
Instead of Male and Female, the signs said Restrooms.
If she’s female, she can use the women’s restroom.
Let me ask you this: if you consider this person a man—and as much of a man as any damn man—do you think they are entitled to undress in the women’s? Would it be TERFY for women to be alarmed if they used that space with them? I can’t tell if you think women should assume this is a man and treat them like one (raise the alarm) or assume this is a woman and shrug their shoulders (transphobia!).
Or maybe women are supposed to just put our head down and pretend that whomever enters the space where we’ve just dropped trou means us no harm, even if our instincts say otherwise. Ignore the signage, ladies. It’s labeled “women’s” but that means nothing because women means nothing now. Ok.
You’re holding up this picture like it’s so obvious this is a man based on their appearance. But funnily enough, I’m not allowed to assume I’m seeing a man if there is a cock in the locker room? Ok, again.
Please piece together some coherent arguments. Photo time at the SDMB doesn’t work if the entire premise of your ideology is that gender isn’t bound to a particular genotype, phenotype, or aesthetic. If it’s just undefined feelings in someone’s mind, topless transmen with cowboy hats mean absolute nothing. It’s just smoke you’re blowing up to mask the fact that women cannot eject men from their spaces anymore and you cannot defend this.
So you want to normalize people with beards using the women’s restroom?
People have given you good answers to this question every time you’ve asked it. But like Aspidistra, you keep on disingenuously hammering on it because it gives you an “excuse” to misgender transgender people.
That question has been answered for you dozens of times, and there’s no difficulty at all in knowing what to do in the situation in your link:
(Who else is suspecting right now that YWTF didn’t read her cite headline carefully and assumed that “GF” stood for “gender-fluid”?)
I mean, there is nothing the slightest bit uncertain or gender-identity-specific about how to handle this situation. If you exit a public restroom stall and anybody is standing there with their pants down demanding sex and trying to grab you and threatening you with a weapon, you scream bloody murder and fight them off for all you’re worth.
There is nothing in the least transphobic about your giving your daughters that advice.
Sorry for giving you a good answer to the question you were nominally asking, since I understand that why you’re really asking it is just for an “excuse” to demonize transgender people again.
I see . . . so there’s no problem with seeing a man in the restroom . . . as long as they’re a female man.
Well, you just said you have no problem with a (as far as anyone can tell) man entering and using the thing labeled “women’s”.
Given that AIUI you have been topic-banned from transgender-issues threads for nearly the past two years, that sounds like a pretty safe bet.
Nobody tried to “silence” you on this or any other subject until you became really obsessive about denouncing transgender rights and misrepresenting transgender-rights advocacy arguments.
Who knew what pronoun(s) one chooses and where one is allowed to pee was male violence!
[quote=“Mr.E, post:142, topic:970369”]
Interesting how the situation cited has nothing to do with transgender women, unless you think walking around with pants down and knife out is how trans women use the bathroom?[/quote]
Well, look at that. Just the point I made in my last paragraph: women cannot talk about the fears we have about men without our concerns being spun to be about transwomen.
And right on cue, you’re doing just what I’m talking about.
Smart parents don’t just leave it up to kids to know who is a danger and who is not. Kids need to be told what to look at for.
“Stay away from strangers who invite you to go somewhere with them.”
“That guy over there is drunk and smells bad, don’t talk to him.”
“Don’t pet dogs that are walking around without a leash.”
“Get our fast if you see a man come in here. This room is for girls only.”
Kids don’t have the experiential knowledge to know what is a danger and what is not based only on their feelings. Thats what makes the great targets for abusers.
Do you think daughters are the only people preyed on by creepy adults?
Of course not.
[Moderating]
I’d forgotten about that topic ban. Thanks for the reminder.
@YWTF, you have been instructed not to participate on topics about transgenderism on this board. That ruling is still in effect. If you continue to post in this thread, you will receive a warning, and your posting privileges will be in danger of being revoked permanently.
[/Moderating]
Why must the board make it so difficult to ignore someone with a hidden profile?
I know, right? Frankly I’m amazed I didn’t have… whatever acronym on ignore already.
They replaced the signs that said “men” and “women” with signs that said “restroom”.
Yes, exactly.
You live in a much more frightening world than i do.
When I’ve seen dogs walking around without a leash, in places where i expect all the dogs to be leashed, i do try to pet them. And if they aren’t aggressive, i grab the collar, find the info on it, and contact the owner. I’ve returned two lost dogs that way. Three if you count my back yard neighbor’s puppy.
Other than in designated mixed-sex restrooms, all the men who have ever entered a public restroom i was in have been janitors. They heard that i was there, apologized, and waited for me to finish up and leave. I’ve also had trans women enter public ladies rooms i was in. They walked into a stall, or to a sink, and used the facilities exactly like any cis women would.
Yes, there are dangerous people out there. There are public restrooms i won’t use because I’m worried about who might be lurking in them. Honestly, i wish the restroom at Penn station, NYC, was coed, so i could go in with my husband, instead of just avoiding it entirely. But “people who look like men, and are acting totally normally” don’t terrify me. I guess they terrify you. I’m sorry for whatever trauma led you to be afraid of half the human race.
That’s what they did at my work as well.
We have single-user restrooms and it was silly to designate them men/women in the first place.
You are correct about the start of that paragraph - gender critical people believe that it’s better for people to refrain from using cross-sex hormones because of the amount of damage they do to a person’s body. And note that hormones can only ever make a person’s secondary sex characteristics not match their primary sex characteristics, they can’t actually change your sex. We also believe that these should never be given to children, because they aren’t competent to understand the consequences.
We definitely most certainly do not believe that people need to “express the gender identity of the genitals they were born with”. That’s conservatives. Here are the three groups:
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Conservatives: Everyone has a sex and a gender identity, these must always match, so men must be masculine and women must be feminine
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Progressives: Everyone has a sex and a gender identity, they don’t necessarily match, so all distinctions between men and women should be made on the basis of gender identity
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Gender Critical: Everyone has a sex. “Gender identities”, if they even exist, are certainly not binary, so you can’t use them to run a binary classification system. Anyway, we really really don’t care about gender identity. At all. Wear what clothes you please, live what lifestyle you like. However, in any case at all where there is a need for binary classification it must run on sex, since that is the only thing that is binary, objective, and observable.
I hope you can see how position 3 is absolutely nothing like position 1
By that logic, Aspergers Syndrome is also a made up disorder - we know which researcher made it up, it was Hans Asperger in the 1940s.