So she was out to lose her virginity. So what? What’s wrong with that? Losing her virginity doesn’t hurt anyone.
She broke up with her boyfriend. Well, she changed her mind. It happens, and it doesn’t make her a bad person. What was she supposed to do, stay with him just because she had promised? If that was the standard, we’d all be married to our high school sweethearts.
And no, that’s not the same as what the college guy did to her. He deliberately deceived her and was cruel to her. There’s no evidence that she behaved that way to the high school boyfriend. They were sweethearts and broke up…shit happens.
She joined a Sorority and went to Frat parties. Evil Bitch.
And no, she didn’t plan to lose her virginity at a drunken frat party. That just happened to be the setting. She thought she was losing her virginity to a guy who cared about her, who she thought there she had a real relationship with.
I guess I’m confused about what exactly the debate is at this point. Was he a douche? Everyone but the OP seems to agree on that. Was she naive and a bit of a twit? No arguments that I can see.
Is the question did she deserve what she got? If it is, my answer is a definite no.
Being naive is forgivable. Being a lying, deceitful, deliberately cruel asshole is not.
There is no such thing as ‘reverse sexism’ only sexism.
If Kathy wanted love she should’ve given it up to the HS boyfriend then right? And Todd was what, 18 or 19?
You really don’t get it do you? Todd led her on for a few weeks and got what he wanted and moved on. She led her HS boyfriend on for much longer. What DtC is saying is that IF what Todd did was bad, then what she did was WORSE, not that what she did was bad and what Todd wasn’t.
As for me misinterpreting what he’s saying, I don’t think so. Here’s a quote from his first post in the thread.
So he agrees that Todd is a douchebag, his argument is that douchebag is his species, and it’s stupid to be upset at him for being what he so obviously is.
What was that you were saying about only ME bailing straw?
Clearly Jimmy Chitwood has no F***ing clue about it, and neither do you. The reason the argument has shifted to be about Kathy is because NOT A SINGLE PERSON IN THE THREAD disagrees that Todd is a douchebag.
Ok this deserves being debunked because it’s so much bullshit.
As I said. What’s wrong with wanting to fuck sorority girls? Why the double-standard? Why is it ok for her to seek sex but not Todd?
She changed her mind and revoked a promise. No she isn’t supposed to stay with him just because she promised just like Todd isn’t supposed to stay with her after having made NO promises.
How did he deceive her? He told her straight up he wanted to fuck her and was pretty persistent on that point. So one person breaks a promise, but that’s not deception whereas the other person states clearly that he wants to fuck, and that’s deceptive in some way?
Who claimed that makes her evil?
Yes she did it says it straight up in the blog that she planned out that she was going to lose her virginity at that party that night.
Yes, he was a douche. Yes, she was naive and a bit of a twit.
What does ‘deserve’ have to do with it?
Can you please cite the lies for me. I seem to have missed them in the blog post that I read.
I’m sure you’ll explain to me, using really small words of course, why deciding not to have sex with someone (which where I come from is 100% your prerogative), is WORSE THAN deceiving someone into having sex with you and then being cruel to them afterwards. The assumption underlying, which you really don’t get, is that somehow, she owed this HS boyfriend her virginity, and did something wrong by not giving it to him. I do hope you can see how ridiculous that is. Perhaps she would have been better off if she had given her virginity to her HS boyfriend, but she was under no obligation to do so whatsoever, and did nothing wrong in changing her mind about that. If you disagree, please explain why, and why it’s worse than what Todd did.
I see that you totally ignored the quote I provided wherein Diogenes said that he thought Todd did NOTHING wrong. Hmmm. Convenient.
I have plenty of clue, having locked horns with you many times, and found your ability to twist people’s words and be disingenuous about it to be Herculean. Jimmy Chitwood commented on it as well, reassuring me that I am not the only one who sees it, which was nice. Diogenes seems to think Todd did nothing wrong. If so, how he is a douchebag? Please explain.
Your keyboard broken there? Or are you just being polite?
First, the person who started the thread does.
Second, nobody disagrees the girl was naive, either. The only remaining issue on the table is whether there’s any reason other than bigotry to criticize her harshly for what happened while offering generic handwaving about what he did, when he was actively harming another person with his behavior and she was just letting herself down.
Well, I think that narrows the issue beyond what it is. I don’t think he was a douche for trying to get into her pants. I don’t think she was naive for letting him. She made, at the time, what she thought was a good decision which turned out not to be so. So did he. If he’s a douche for this, then so too is every person who’s currently divorced.
People change over time and learn more about people they’re with. Perhaps for him being with a lousy lay is a deal breaker. It would be for me, which is why I don’t find virgins to be a particular alluring concept; I don’t want to have to teach someone how to fuck. That’s just me. Anyway, the guy is as free to change his mind about wanting to be with her as she was about being a tease and then finally deciding to put out.
Only in hindsight does she think it was a bad choice. She wasn’t forced to have sex with him, but chose to do so. There’s nothing I can see about her description of his behavior which says absolutely he only said nice things to get some ass; he was rather upfront about that I think.
Rubystreak Your argument hinges around this ‘deception’ idea. You need to prove that there was deception involved. I didn’t read anything in that blog that said that Todd deceived Kathy.
No, it does not “hinge” on deception. You’d like it to be so, so that you can dismiss the entire thing, but that doesn’t make it so. The deception is just one part of what Todd did that was wrong. In the blog, he says, “I still want to be with you.” He went on dates, relationship stuff, for an extended period of time. While he signed no contract in blood, certainly there was ample reason why Kathy thought that he wanted more from her than sex. She may have been being naive about that, but he was also conniving and pretending to be invested in her, in order to fuck and run. Both are culpable, but Todd was being calculated, and Kathy genuine. I have a lot more sympathy for genuine but foolish than I do for calculating and mean.
Other things that Todd did that were reprehensible: ending the relationship in the most cowardly, weaselly way possible, by ignoring her. Trying to dodge his own responsibility for the pregnancy by, at first, claiming she had multiple sexual partners, when he knew she didn’t. Assuming that she would get an abortion because it was more convenient for him, when she really could have fucked up his life by demanding 18-21 years of child support out of him. All of this points to Todd being a massive dick IMO. Nothing Kathy did, either to Todd or her HS boyfriend, amounts to this much bad behavior. YMMV.
Fine, I see your point of view, and honestly it’s starting to sound like I am defending the scumbag. I’m not, I just don’t see her as an innocent little victim. Yeah he’s an asshole, but she had ample warning that he was so if the article is to be believed.
I don’t see a single, solitary person saying that Kathy is an innocent little victim. Not a bloody one. She was a foolish, naive young girl who did not take good care of herself. That in no way mitigates Todd’s dickishness. I’m glad you can now see my point.
Nope. I never said any such thing. He was entitled to nothing.
Jesus, way to totally misunderstand the point. I was calling YOU a hypocrite for Saying it was ok for her to be a liar and a scumbag (not to mention a stalker), but not for frat boy Todd. You can’t have it both ways. Good, bad or indifferent, she and Todd are exactly the same, but she’s a little more stupid, a little more crazy and a little more heartless.
By the way, I said Todd didn’t do anything “all THAT” wrong. Pretending to care about a sorority skank (and that’s how he would have perceived her, accurate or not, especially since she was in the habit of getting drunk and making out with random guys at parties) to get her into bed is about a 2 on a scale of 1-10.
Jesus. You really have latched onto the tiniest aspects of the story and blown them up into a fullscale misogynist narrative. Now she was in the habit of getting drunk and making out with random guys at parties. He walked out of the room and didn’t speak to her anymore. Like, just forgot she existed. Then she got upset. Then she told him she was pregnant and he abused her for it.
You really think that’s exactly the same as telling a high school boyfriend you’ve changed your mind about sex?
Thanks again for the advice. You’re really helpful today.
Since I’m not so good with the reading, could you do me a favor? Those big books that list words, and what those words mean? I forget the name. But could you look up “habit” for me and tell me if it means doing something twice?
For fuck’s sake, the both of you. The article says she kissed two guys. Obviously, then, she’s in the HABIT of getting DRUNK and making out with RANDOM GUYS, bro. Bros before hoes.