Purposeful Social Infiltration in Different Circles

Woody Allen. And that’s a Groucho Marx line (ninja’d).

Although to be fair to myself, even though I did know it as a Groucho-ism, Allen did make it more well known when he used it in the opening of Annie Hall … the brain fart was not completely without basis! :duck:

No need to duck!

You were supposed to take the set up and ask “why a duck?” Ah well.

Chico: That’s the Jewish neighborhood?

Hammer: (pause) Well, we’ll Passover that…You’re a peach, boy. Now, here is a little peninsula, and, eh, here is a viaduct leading over to the mainland.

Chico: Why a duck?

Hammer: I’m alright, how are you? I say, here is a little peninsula, and here is a viaduct leading over to the mainland.

Chico: Alright, why a duck?

Hammer: (pause) I’m not playing “Ask Me Another,” I say that’s a viaduct.

Chico: Alright! Why a duck? Why that…why a duck? Why a no chicken?

Hammer: Well, I don’t know why a no chicken; I’m a stranger here myself. All I know is that it’s a viaduct. You try to cross over there a chicken and you’ll find out why a duck.

Chico: When I go someplace I just…

Hammer: (interrupts) It’s…It’s deep water, that’s why a duck. It’s deep water.

Chico: That’s why a duck…

Hammer: Look…look, suppose you were out horseback riding and you came to that stream and you wanted to ford over…You couldn’t make it, it’s too deep!

Chico: Well, why do you want with a Ford if you gotta horse?

Hammer: Well, I’m sorry the matter ever came up. All I know is that it’s a viaduct.

Chico: Now look, alright, I catch ona why a horse, why a chicken, why a this, why a that…I no catch ona why a duck.

Hammer: I was only fooling…I was only fooling. They’re gonna build a tunnel there in the morning. Now is that clear to you?

Chico: Yes, everything excepta why a duck.

I don’t even like socializing with groups that I closely identify with. I can’t imagine a situation where I would purposefully seek out a group of people I have nothing in common with.

Because admitting you go to twelve-step programs as a fucking pain voyeur was going to end up here anyway?

OP is all kinds of fucked-up.

yeah.

Especially when that group is united by a shared suffering and struggle you have to pretend to identify with, and take advantage of them with your deception.

There is nothing wrong with attending open meetings as long as you let it be known you are not an alcoholic/in recovery.

If you pretend (even by omission) to be in recovery, then you are an asshole.

If you sleep with even one woman who you met while pretending in this way, then you are a predator.

Having been a regular visitor to AA meetings, and being a longstanding alcoholic, I don’t actually give a shit if anyone who is interested joins any meeting, even the closed ones.

Alcoholics often tend to solitude, but need a social life too, and I think that any social interaction is good interaction.

Now it would be “bad form” just to go for the really bad coffee, but to go to learn? To meet people who are themselves in need of friends?

I think you are being overly harsh, and I (not knowing anything about you) would suggest you attend an open meeting.

(Also, the 12step program is unscientific bullshit, completely faith based. Peer support is far more valueable, even if that peer is not actually also an addict)

Edit, maybe I should have used long-term, rather than longstanding… because I don’t…

Even with liars?

So, on the strength of my vast knowledge, acquired by attending a single open meeting of a single AA group, i agree about the faith-based unscientific bullshit. But even so, I think the meetings offer context for people to acquire a “sponsor”, which is to say, peer support. And I think the support of another recovering addict is more helpful than the support of someone who doesn’t get it.

I know my MIL felt that AA was helpful to her.

Yeah. I do seek out groups of people i don’t have much in common with, because i feel it expands my horizon. Like being a tourist in a different country. But deceiving suffering people to get to hear stories about pain and suffering is beyond the pale.

There was also a Curb Your Enthusiasm episode where Larry’s ex-girlfriend talks him into joining her at an incest survivor group (since he’s the only person she ever told).

Alessan, ALL addicts are liars. We lie to our friends, we lie to our families, we lie to ourselves.

Generally people tell “white lies” quite often, but there are lies and LIES.

The only real value (as a fluent liar - thanks senior school boarding school) is that I can recognise a liar.

After I proposed to my future wife, she said she wanted to get married in the Catholic church, since she was raised Catholic, though she hadn’t gone to church in years. I was Catholic by birth, but hadn’t been since I was a kid. So we started regularly attending the services and becoming very involved at the local Catholic church to become established. We were married in the church and stayed regular churchgoers for years afterward, having both of our children baptized there.

As a confirmed Agnostic and borderline Atheist, I very much felt like a fraud. But I liked singing the hymns and the fellowship in general. The whole ritual of it was comforting, despite the fact that I never came any closer to really believing. It didn’t hurt that this particular Catholic church was extremely liberal. The Priest, a very nice guy, was kind of an aging hippie, and preached peace, love and understanding. The town we lived in had a strong LGBTQ presence, and several members of that community were also churchgoers. A Deacon in the church was also a practicing Buddhist. So this was very much not your grandfather’s Catholic church.

We eventually stopped going because my wife and I became disillusioned and disgusted with the Catholic church in general after a series of continuing ‘Spotlight’ style scandals through the early 2000s (our Priest, to his credit, joined a group of other Priests who protested the whitewashing of those scandals by the Church). But our Priest eventually retired, and that was pretty much the end of it for us. They couldn’t find a regular replacement Priest, so they had a rotating list of Deacons and guest Priests. The overall tone became much more Conservative and political in nature-- an article in the church newsletter urging us to write our Congresspeople and tell them to outlaw abortion, that sort of thing. Our years-long Catholic experiment was over.

On first reading I wondered if this was too harsh, but then I gave it some more thought. I can’t disagree.

at the very least, I feel like the OP came here to be “naughty” and is hoping to get scolded. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

I’m not quite sure what this means, that the OP says he is “a dry”. In that context, I might think it means “dry drunk”, which is AA jargon for an alcoholic who isn’t currently drinking, but is also not involved in 12 Step activities. If he self-identifies as such, then he is identifying as an alcoholic and should be welcome at meetings.

Having spoken to a lot of addicts and attended a lot of meetings (in a professional capacity), I agree with scudsucker that nobody in those rooms is worried about checking anyone’s “qualifications”. If he thinks he should be there, he probably should, even if he has to lie to himself about why.

I briefly considered that, but any alcoholic not currently drinking might consider themself a “dry drunk” and thus belong at the meetings. Plus he’s had every opportunity to correct us if that that were the case.

Saying " No one suspects I’m a dry and I think I’m a little bad going there but it’s a fun place to hang out twice a week." (bolding mine) indicates that he doesn’t belong there, hence he’s not an alcoholic

It was generous of the other posters to consider my writing. It was actually helpful of Atamasama to point out that I’m an asshole. Really all of you did me a personal favor in telling me to stop attending even an open meeting just of personal interest. I was being bad so am not doing that anymore.