The OP reminds me of something Daniel Schnwarr - AKA our own David B - posted during the initial intelligence recon missions to the LBMB.
He commented how it is quite possible that we are SUPPOSED to clone Jesus, and that only through this woul the second-coming really happen as planned. He surmised that we should do our part, and how did THEY know that this is not how is was supposed to be done?
I don’t recall the Pounders commenting on that one. In fact, I think it’s one of the things that led to our invasion being discovered!
*TIME ELAPSED SINCE I QUIT SMOKING:
Five months, two weeks, four days, 2 hours, 4 minutes and 21 seconds.
6843 cigarettes not smoked, saving $855.43.
Extra time with Drain Bead: 3 weeks, 2 days, 18 hours, 15 minutes.
*“I’m a big Genesis fan.”-David B. (Amen, brother!)
When two bible-thumpers fight, it’s called a bible-thumper battle. When they battle in a puddle, it’s called a bible-thumper puddle battle.
And
when thumpers battle thumpers in a puddle with a paddle, it’s called the second wave of the LBMB who don’t seem to realize that linking to a website is not a great debate.
Says who? There are plenty of churches all over the world that claim to have a little bit of the True Cross - Mark Twain remarks amusingly on this in The Innocents Abroad. And he’s not kidding - even I have been shown a bit of the True Cross, by some Greek Orthodox monks on Easter at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem (where Jesus is likely buried). I’m not sure which Church exactly you are referring to, and even if they have some old splinters behind the locked door at the Vatican, with all these pieces of wood strewn about the world, how many people are going to take even this seriously?
I can say honestly that it would be pretty much completely impossible to find any of Jesus’ DNA at this late date. Please recall that Jesus lived in an area not known for its extreme peacefulness and even holy Christian relics and churches have been destroyed in the past 2000 years (the newest version of the Basilica of the Annunciation in Nazareth is about 50 years old). The Church of the Holy Sepulchre was first built only a couple hundred years after Jesus died, but it was destroyed and rebuilt a few times, so even if Jesus was buried in the area, it’s unlikely that they have the exact spot right. Most holy places have similar histories. Try to walk the Stations of the Cross on the Via Dolorosa - it becomes obvious pretty much immediately that this was not the actual path Jesus walked. The Ninth Station (which happens to be at a monastery) is bizarrely out of the way; you have to walk about half a mile off the Via Dolorosa to get there, and then the Tenth Station is in perfect line with the Eighth! The Roman Jerusalem that existed at the time of Jesus was much too orderly for any path to meander like that.
Somebody mentioned The Miracle Strain. I am in the middle of it right now. It’s a good read, because it raises interesting issues and it’s the most horribly broad and cliched piece of hackwork I’ve read in a long time. But in a pleasant way, if you know what I mean.
Anyway, in this book the characters mention as a recognized relic the foreskin of Christ. I’m not sure whether this is true, but it adds a whole new dimension to this discussion. Or maybe it doesn’t.
The human form of Christ probably could be cloned because He was here in human form. However, that would not make the clone Christ. The Holiness which imbued Christ would not be there. The essence of what is Christ would not be there and you would have only a man who would look like Christ but not act like Him.
Attempting to clone Christ would be a big mistake for the Christian religion.
Kyla tossed out the following surprising remark: even I have been shown a bit of the True Cross, by some Greek Orthodox monks on Easter at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem (where Jesus is likely buried).
Errr, you say Jesus is buried in Jerusalem? You were told this by monks?
I thought that all Christian doctrine, including Greek Orthodox, had Jesus being assumed bodily into heaven at some point after the Resurrection, so he ain’t buried noplace. Or were you using “likely” to mean “from a strictly materialist and non-Christian standpoint that assumes Jesus was a non-miraculous human being and therefore at some point they had to figure out what to do with the body, Jesus is buried in Jerusalem”? If so, never mind. If not, has somebody told the Pope about this?
Probably a mis-hearing for “was buried” – since He did have a tomb for a couple days. (If resurrections ever catch on, cemeteries could make a mint on short-term rentals.)
Sorry for the confusion. No, the monks didn’t tell me anything about Jesus’ being buried or not. They just showed me the piece of wood. In the ChurchotHS. Which is where Jesus’ tomb is. (I have never been in it cause every time I went there there was a line, so I have no idea what’s in the tomb, if anything at all.) Whether he is actually buried there or not buried there or buried somewhere at all is a matter of faith.
My church has a fragment, too. It was given to us by the Archbishop of Galilee. When the Empress Helena found the True Cross in Jerusalem in the late fourth century, she had it sawn into three pieces. One piece remained in Jerusalem, one was sent to Rome, one to Constantinople- essentially the three “capitals” of the Christian world. Sliver-sized fragments have in fact been given to parish churches and monastaries all over the world. Hell, they probably saved the sawdust when it was cut into thirds, so that right there could be a source of hundreds of these relics.
And if you’re up on your history, you know that up until 1054, the Greek Orthodox Church was part of the Catholic Church, so it isn’t surprising that a Greek Orthodox monastary would have a fragment of the True Cross.
There was a pretty decent “The Outer Limits” episode about this. That guy that played Charles from MAS*H had a lab that had extracted DNA from the shroud of Turin and impregnated this lady with a Christ clone. I think what they found was that there was a genetic mutation in the DNA similar to another mutation they had witnessed in the DNA of a man that had telekinesis, but in the Christ DNA it was more pronounced, so one of the concerns was that maybe Christ was just a guy that had telekinesis, and in the day it was misinterpreted(sp?) as him performing miracles. There was a cool scene where the mom, still pregnant with the Christ clone, was in the nursery and toys began flying all around her.
I don’t follow your reasoning. Yes, the clone wouldn’t be Christ, it would be a clone. A photograph of Christ would not be Christ, but that doesn’t mean that Christ can’t be photographed.
I think we should get hold of the Holy foreskin and clone away. Don’t stop with just one body of Christ - let’s get a whole football team. Those Hail Mary passes would be literally awesome. And the special team would be REALLY spaecial.
I’ve been inside. You have to kneel through this little doorway and inside there is a big marble coffin with a large portrait of Jesus above it. It is too small to stand in (forcing you to kneel). I believe as tradition has it, this sepulchre was opened when Christ reappeared after he died and it was empty. I’m probably the least informed about it around here though (joo). I’ve also touched the stone on which Christ was crucified, and seen the rock on which Mary wept. It is all pretty neat. They even have 300 year old graffiti on the banister in the crucifixion room.
I’d highly recommend it to anyone visiting Jerusalem, no matter their belief system. The whole history of the Church is amazing. It is in the Arab half of the Old City (in the Christian Quarter), so this week may not be the best time to stroll on down there…
Wouldn’t need an old, unreliable True Relic for DNA–go to any Roman Catholic Mass, wait for the consecration, then take one of the hosts (communion wafers). According the Catholic doctrine, the host becomes the “Body and Blood” of Christ–and they don’t mean it in a figurative way. For a believer, the host IS the Body and Blood–a miracle every time. So, that should provide enough DNA even if it takes a few tries.
Time to fight a little ignorance on Catholic Beliefs and Doctrine.
The communion wafer becomes the Body of Christ. The wine becomes the Blood of Christ. The external manifestations (the accidents) of the bread and wine remain unchanged. That is the shape, color, flavor, odor and even the DNA.
The bread and wine change to the substance of Christ’s Body and Blood. All the other characteristics are accidents that the bread and wine previously possessed.
Yes, barker, I misspoke when I included the Blood along with the Body–habit of refering to them together. As to the other–I was making a satirical statement. The theology and physics of transubstantiation are well known to me. In a thread debating the ability to clone the Christ bringing in the Eucharist seemed as appropriate and viable as Blood from the True Cross.
