Question on Spiderman 3 - All spoilers are from trailer only

Cafe Society
1

I haven’t seen it, so be forewarned. Please box all spoilers, (though they gave away half the movie in the trailer.)

In the trailer, it seems:

That Spidey turns dark somehow, and so his suit turns dark and so does his personality.

What I want to know, is is this canon? Is this from comic books? Or are they just making stuff up? I know vaguely about the existence of Venom; are they related? The whole thing seems odd to me, because:

Wasn’t Spidey always the good guy? The “boy next door” type?" It would be like making Batman all glowing.

Thanks - I probably won’t be able to get back to this thread until tomorrow but all answers are appreciated.

2

I’m not a Spider-Man scholar, but it’s canon and Venom-related:

A mysterious substance envelops Spider-Man and becomes a new black costume. It makes Spidey stonger and faster, but also angrier and more prone towards revenge. It also envelops a man named Eddie Brock, who becomes a villain named Venom.

3

I haven’t seen the film, so I don’t know what changes they’ve made, but it’s slightly different from that description.

[spoiler]Basically there was this big Marvel crossover (the “Secret Wars”), with heroes and villains and whoever duking it out on some planet thanks to the latest galactic power of the week. In comics canon, Venom is basically the mix of a human character and a symbiotic alien creature.

From Wikipedia;

Because it’s first bond was with Spider-Man, when the symbiote bonds with another person, the two have Spider-Man-like powers. So wallcrawling, natural webshooters, agility, etc. Also it can shapeshift, to an extent. The first Venom was Eddie Brock, as it is in the film, though the symbiote’s had other people since. They’re all referred to as Venom, though.

Oh, and it can have kids. [/spoiler]

4

Basically, Spiderman “goes dark” because of the suit, not vice versa.

I’ve never followed the Spiderman comics much, but I think the movie (which I saw this past weekend) took plot points about the “symbiote” from the mid-90s animated series more than the comics (box contains movie spoilers, but no major plot points that aren’t in the trailer):

[spoiler]The symbiote came from space. In the animated series, it came down on the shuttle (piloted by Jameson’s son) and IIRC caused the shuttle to crash, Spidey picked it up while saving the crew. In the movie, the ooze pops out of a crashed meteorite.

I’m pretty sure the animated series had Peter consulting with Dr. Conners about the properties of the “ooze”. Conners discovers that it reacts strongly to “darker” emotions (especially anger), and has the abilitiy to bond itself to a host. The movie has similar scenes.

The black suit increases Spidey’s powers. He’s stronger, faster, and has an unlimited supply of webbing (in the comics / animated series the webbing was a chemical that Peter invented, he often ran into trouble when it ran out). This power, along with the symbiote’s mental infiltration, made Spiderman more arrogant and less caring.

I don’t remember the inciting incident in the animated series, but Peter eventually fought off the symbiote in a bell tower, using its sensitivity to sound to weaken it. I’m pretty sure he did this deliberately in the series, in the movie it was more of an accident.

After being rejected by Peter, the symbiote latches on to Eddie Brock. The symbiote gave Eddie Spiderman’s powers, along with knowlege that the symbiote learned from Spiderman (including his secret identity). In the series Eddie was a much bigger guy, so Venom was physically stronger. Also (and this was never explicitly shown in the movie, but there are subtle things that can be interpreted this way), the symbiote is able to “cloak” Venom from Spiderman’s “spidey sense”, making Venom one of the few villians able to really get the drop on Spiderman.

Eddie / Venom is much more of a “fused” personality than Spiderman / symbiote was. IIRC, Venom usually spoke as “we” instead of “I” when talking.[/spoiler] Now, how “canon” the animated series is may be up for debate. :slight_smile:

5

Ok, thank you all. Now have any of you seen it? Do you like it? Cause it’s getting shitty reviews!

6

I’ve seen the movie.

My review? Two words: emo spidey. Although… you kind of have to see the movie to get that reference.

It’s not as good as 1 or 2, but it’s a good romp with some really nice special effects.

7

By far the weakest of the three. Weaker characters, more muddled plot.

But I still enjoyed it. Good humor and action.

8

That’s exactly what I said in the theater when I first saw Peter after Venom bonds with him.

9

I understand that. It’s what I felt after I watched the new Superman. Emo Superman.

10

No, not even close. This really is EMO Spider-Man, with the emo hair and everything.

11

From what I remember…[spoiler]We’ve covered the whole “costume as alien symbiote” thing already, so I’ll move past that.

I don’t remember much in the way of darker emotions really, but the suit did make him more of an adrenaline junkie since it fed off adrenaline and such. He was more prone towards taking risks. Angrier, but not emo. Peter started to get concerned when he started to become tired constantly. Seems the suit was taking him out for midnight webswings/crime fights. He removed the suit via church bells because the suit was feeding off his life energy, not because he suddenly felt like mussing his hair.

As for Venom, Eddie Brock was a reporter for the Daily Bugle. He “busted” a murderer by the name of the Sin Eater, only not so much. Spider Man captured the real Sin Eater and Brock’s career went down the crapper. Got a bit of a mad on for the web head after that. Enter the symbiote, recently rung right off of Spider Man. It wasn’t much of a fan of Spider Man either. Brock and the symbiote went out a couple of times and hit it off, so they decided to bond and try to eat Spider Man’s brain. The symbiote carried a peck of Peter’s powers along with it. As Brock was a bit of an exercise buff (more than Peter at any rate) he wound up stronger than Peter. Not as quick though, and just a bit off his nut.[/spoiler]
As for the movie, it could’ve been better. Weepier than the last one, and noone keeps their mask on for more than a second. Topher Grace does a great job as Venom though.

12

Ooo, I like Topher Grace.

13

I liked it, I give it two stars. Meaning it’s worth going to see, and is a fun movie, but not four star material by any means.

I think the main reason Spiderman 1 and Spiderman 2 stood out so much in comparison to most other super hero movies is serious efforts were made to explore the transformation of Peter Parker the person into a superhero, both physically and mentally. A huge part of the 1st and 2nd films is about Peter having a very hard time trying to have a real life and still live up to what he views as his responsibilities.

In the Superman and Batman movies that have come out through the years, you never really get that. (Although I haven’t seen the most recent Batman) The Dark Knight and the Man of Steel are always just displayed as superhuman, Superman’s powers make him almost boringly overpowered and Batman’s strengths relative to the waves of petty goons he usually roughs up mean that most Batman/Superman movies are 120 minute romps where the hero kicks total ass all the time while delivering one-liners and saving damsels falling from perilous heights with aerial finesse.

I’m not sure where Spiderman could have gone from Spiderman 2 to recreate what made the first two movies so good. Eventually out of accuracy to the comics, you have to come to the point where “this guy is a superhero, period, he’s done worry about it.” Because eventually that’s what Spidey does in the comics, and while it’s a necessary step it is one that destroyed a lot of the chemistry in the first two.

14

“Batman Begins” depicts the beginning of the Dark Knight’s career, though the element of personal transition doesn’t come across as strongly IMO as in the first Spider-Man movie (to be expected; while Bruce Wayne’s personal demons are stronger, his mundane personal problems are nil in comparison with Peter Parker’s).

15

I’ve mixed conjecture in with what happened in the film so I’ve spoilered in case.

They had too much to cover in one film, but not enough for two. Perhaps if they had ended the first film with Harry gets his memory back. Peter causes the death of some-one (not MJ or Gwen, but maybe Betty at the Bugle) when the suits anger makes him concentrate on finishing off the villain instead of saving the girl. This is when he realises the suits controlling him, and it passes on to Brock.

Harrys’ see-sawing between friend and foe was the highlight of the film for me.

The special effects on the sandman were fantastic, and the actor had a certain screen presence even if he did seem a little stiff (sand in the ass-crack does that).

I’m sorry but the handling of Venom sucked big time. I know they decided to make Brock physically similar to Peter on purpose. But really the whole hatred thing would have worked so much better if they had picked a muscular guy for the role. For a big guy to be humiliated like that by a weed like parker, would have hurt him so much more. Also Venom would have been that bit more scary, as it was he looked like spidey with fangs.

And why did they ditch the whole schtick where the black costume could morph into whatever Peter wanted to wear? I mean all through the film he was taking the suit on and off as he liked, until he had to take it off.