Yes my life is a soap opera with no leading man currently in place.
Did I mention I was given the Academy Award for the Best Actress in an On-Going Melodramatic Performance?
Amen, sister!
I was really afraid when I saw this thread that the words “deeply religious” or “strong Cristian” were going to enter into it.
Isabelle, we may have had this conversation before, but I for one would appreciate on your part a little more thought before posting things like
It implies that those who accept Christ as their savior yet are able to love and accept their lesbian daughters are “weak” in their faith or somehow inferior to those who condemn homosexuality behind the screen of religion. It is disturbing and offensive.
If you decide to pray for Morgan, I hope that you will pray for the wisdom to recognize her right to live her life free of religious bigotry from everyone, including her mother. I also hope that you will pray for Morgan’s mother’s heart to be softened and that she will learn to love and treasure this second chance with her daughter without her bigotry getting in the way.
And since you have posted previously on the subject of tithes, I am going to ask of you that any tithe you make to your church be earmarked for activities other than the destructive “ex-gay” group. Do with that request what your heart moves you to do.
Applause
Yes, that exactly.
Homosexuality is wrong pure and simple.
Instead of looking for websites to help support your friend Isabelle might I suggest going directly to the source “THE BIBLE”
If you really want to support your friend - drive her to church with her daugter and let it be a “laying of hands service” where God can intervine and remove any feelings of sexual confusion.
Confusion comes from the pits of hell.
WHOOSH???
So are both my parents. My father, in point of fact, is a monk.
Neither was dismayed or upset when I came out to them (which was a welcome shock!).
It is meant as a resource for parents and friends of the non-heterosexual community. So of course it’s going to be more pro-gay than your average, say, “compassionate conservative” website, or a church who considers “reparative therapy” to be a proper method of outreach, or a church that says we should brfriend gays in order to try to cure them, or whatever, of their homosexuality (to mention three not uncommon approaches, one of which the SBC has strongly invited its church members to use, to “dealing” with people like Otto and me).
Meanwhile you might introduce Megan to this place, as it will probably give her more actual support than her biological mother’s church.
No, to a conservative Christian who believes that, for example, there is something wrong with homosexuality, this is “terrible” news. The strength of the faith doesn’t matter nearly as much as the beliefs in it. We have several strong Christians on this board who have as much of a problem with tooth paste as with homosexuality.
Perhaps this woman should leave the issue of sexuality to her daughter and the woman who raised her.
I suspect, sunrise, that the best way to find out if this woman has sexual attraction to women is for some of the more attractive church women to lay their hands on her:D
I think the only websites that would help a young woman figure out her sexual orientation are porn sites.
Might not help things with the mother, though. 
Sounds to me like the last thing Morgan needs is a religious mother or church community putting pressure on her.
I feel for the girl…chances are if she is confused now, “Christian” intervention isn’t going to help. She needs to decide for herself, her mom needs to lay off until she has decided and while you all are praying about the situation, pray for a better understanding of the Bible for yourselves.
I own several Bibles, have read two translations cover to cover and most of two others and none tell me to hate, ostrasize, demean and condemn people who are different than myself.
I do remember parts about loving everyone (the highest commandment) and acceptance of different people (the good Samaritan and the chick who annointed Jesus’ head with expensive perfume) and Jesus’ habit of hanging out with prostitutes and tax collectors (the scum of the earth in Jesus’ time)
What would Jesus do? He would probably be this girl’s friend. She needs an unjudging ear and a friend to lean on, not judgement and condemnation.
Forget about websites.
Tell your friend that attempts to convince Morgan that lesbianism is a sin or to ‘cure’ her will result in her losing her all over again. Only this time, she will never come back.
Morgan has no emotional ties to this woman. A mother who reacts in horror, disgust, and condemnation will drive her away.
I’m surprised no Christians have addressed this yet. There are, in fact, many Christians whose faith does not compel them to condemn homosexuality. There is the The Metropolitan Community Church (and for Catholics, New Ways).
Since I know you have a Baptist background, I foundThe Rainbow Baptists. There is also Welcoming and Affirming Baptists, and American Baptists concerned for sexual minorities.
In the end, your friend has to decide which is more important to her; her precious daughter, or her precious hatred. I’m going to pray that her motherly (Christian) love is stronger than her legalistic religion.
Laying on hands to remove sexual confusion… :dubious:
I must have missed it (I’m not a Christian but am fairly familiar with Christianity).
I would not necessarily universally ascribe welcoming or scorn from any one Christian denomination (although there are those branches where the percent is fairly high). I have observed, however, a general trend that isn’t really all that earth-shattering … the more liberal someone is in general, the more accepting they tend to be of non-hets. Episcopals, from what I have gathered on this board, seem to be fairly well split on the issue. Catholics I can’t generalize about meaningfully because theirs is such a wide and varied spectrum. Baptists, by and large, tend to ascribe to the notion of the homosexual lifestyle, etc. though there are of course exceptions.
Unitarian Universalists are about as open-minded as one can be, I think. I don’t recall how liberal Lutherans are, though I’d wager moreso than Baptists, certainly, as well asyour average Catholic.
I would be cautious, Isabelle, because for some Christians the idea of a support group for non-heterosexuals is more along the lines of “Receive the love of Jesus Christ as your Lord and Personal Savoir and you will be relieved/cured/forgiven of your homosexual thoughts” etc. Others are sufficiently saturated by the notion of sexuality being determined solely in sexual activity that, to them, someone who is engaging in sexual activity with a member of the opposite sex is heterosexual (despite what other feelings s/he may have). And then you have the Christians (such as yourself) who are convinced, through whatever means, that homosexuality is a lifestyle. Many also are under the impression that, while their sex lives are nobody’s business, the sex life of anyone who might possibly not be 100% totally heterosexual is something for gossip, scorn and lots of discussion.
If Morgan’s biological mother wants to talk to someone whose child has come out in the not-so-distant future, I’ll see if either of my parents is available for it. It oughtn’t be a source of disappointment, and the fact that it is (a potential source, right now) will not help Morgan’s biological mother to bond with her daughter. If, on the other hand, she is looking not to see said daughter again, it may turn out to be quite effective in securing that end.
Sunrise, you might want to try re-reading your Gospels and read what Christ really condemns. You won’t see a word about homosexuality. Isabelle, please tell your friend the same thing. I think some doubts about one’s sexuality are natural. I am as straight as a board, yet when I was in my early 20’s and not dating anyone, I wondered if I might be gay because sometimes in fantasies, there’d be another woman involved.
It sounds like your friend’s daughter has had a lot of confusion and questioning basic assumptions in her life during the few years (I’m factoring in the fact that she just found the woman who put her up for adoption a year ago and they’re still sorting things out). She’s also in an awful position of facing a second rejection from the person pop culture says is supposed to love you unconditionally. That this person is also making what’s supposed to be unconditional love into conditional love (I get the impression she’s saying, in effect, “Neither God nor I will love you if you’re gay.”) just makes things worse.
Polycarp is on hiatus right now, but I’ll send him an e-mail myself and see if I can get him to get you some specifically Christian information on this, paper as well as electronic, in addition to the links you’ve been given and, I’ve no doubt will continue to be given. The language in the Bible is pretty vague when it comes to sexuality, I suspect because of a general ooginess about bodily functions (Mark 7:17, in particular I suspect, has been cleaned up a bit). Still, if you read the Gospels, or even do a search over on Bible Gateway for things like the use of the word “body” in the Gospels like I just did, you’ll see Christ is far more concerned with sins of the heart and mind than of the body, or at least, that’s the way I read things. I do believe promiscuity in general, not specifically hetero- or homosexual promiscuity, is sinful, but that doesn’t sound like your friend’s daughter’s problem. Even so, the Samaritan woman at the well in John 4 was definitely guilty of sexual immorality by the standards of the day (she’s the one who’d had 5 husbands), yet she’s the first person Christ revealed himself to as Saviour.
Oh, sunrise, one other thing I’d like to differ with you on. You said “Confusion comes from the pits of hell.” To me, it’s not confusion, but cruelty which comes from hell, based on my reading of the Bible, specifically the Gospels.
CJ
First off let me remind people we are not in Great Debates. We are in IMHO.
I posted my question because I am looking for a website that could help a 25 year old woman get comfortable in her own skin and be happy about her decision.
No one in this post is going to convince me not to stand by my friend (her mother) My support is not to try and convince her to change her mind about homosexuality. My support is to listen to her heart and help her see thru to love her daughter “unconditionally” She has a second chance at loving her daughter and I personally don’t think she should blow it.
When I made the comment (that apparently offended) by saying something along the lines that to a Christian it would be bad news to hear that your child is a homosexual I was speaking directly IMHO and from my own personal experience. I have yet to meet a Pentecostal Christian that does.
Take for instance my good friend Sunny (who is a lesbian) She lived with me. I took her to my “Christian” friend Dianne’s house to drop something off. Sunny got paged and asked to use the phone. Dianne allowed it. On our way out the door Dianne says “Should I disinfect the phone?” I was livid. I didn’t talk with Dianne for a long time. I later learned that her son came out of the closet. Dianne won’t have anything to do with him.
Then there is my Chrisitan friend “Jodie” I mentioned to her that I was going to Deb’s house for the weekend. You don’t need gaydar to know that Deb is a lesbian. Jodie’s comment was "She does know you are straight doesn’t she? She’s not going to try something right? Gimme a break!
How about the time I was out with a group of lesbian couples. I was sitting in the lobby of the restaurant waiting for a table when “Jan” who is a Christian teacher and mentor walks in. She extends pleasentries takes a look at the women I am with and bluntly asks me “Where do you know these women from?”
She mentioned at a later date that “I should be careful with the company that I keep”
Oh I could go on. Suffice it to say that IMHO I have not met a Christian that embraces this lifestyle.
I wonder if the title “Christian” is loosely used. Example. You call the strip that you put on a cut a Band Aid. But really Band Aid is a name brand. But you might always call these strips Band Aids whether they are the right brand or not.
The title Christian is used to describe many types of religion. The title is just loosley used. I don’t know if that makes my point clear.
But let me not stop there.
I have also not met a Christian IMHO that embraces divorce. Again I speak from personal experience. I was in an abusive relationship. My life was in danger. I went thru the chain of commands in the church. You know what I was advised? Stay in the marriage. Pray about it. God does not embrace divorce.
I didn’t listen, divorced and was shunned by many.
I have yet to meet a Christian who embraces abortion. They are completly against it. Yes I am a Christian and I believe abortion is wrong but I do NOT think it should be illegal. I think it is up to each woman to make her own choice. God gave us free will.
So again I buck the church system.
I have yet to meet a Christian that doesn’t find my reading habits “tabu” I have been looked down upon because I happen to enjoy a good Horror movie or a drama that may or may not inclue nudity and violence.
I have yet to meet a Christian that believes in the cavemen or carbon dating.
Just recently my group of “church friends” found the opportunity to council me. Why? Because they felt I am being led astray becaise I watch Survivor. Gimme a break! Their feelings were that the game is deceitful, manipulating and the players back stab one another and this is not Christian behavior.
Why my tithing habits got brought up into a post about sexual oreintation is a whoosh to me.
I did NOT say I supported the ex gay club at my church. I simply mentioned that to offer up my church doesn’t embrace a homosexual lifestyle.
Here is a snippet from an email I got from my friend (the mother)
Thanks for the sites I will check them out…
As for me, my thinking on the subject has varied at different times in my life. I dont think I ever condemned anyone but was saddened by thier inner struggle. The Christian in me says hate the sin love the sinner (but we are all sinners so…)the woman in me doesnt have a clue what the attraction is to the same sex, the person in me has come to the point where I just love people for who and what they are and let God do the rest. I judge no one and have told Morgan just that! I assured her that no matter her preference I love her for her and that is not a stumbling block for me or mine. But I do admit my husband and I do ask the Lord to intervene and help her find peace w/i herself and most of all help her be who HE intended her to be and not what she thinks she is ? She just sounds sooo confused about life in general and my hands are tied to help but God’s aren’t so in HIM lies all her answers I just pray she allows herself the openness to hear them. She sounds totally bitte r about anything related to God/religion…makes me wonder what really has gone on before my finding her? I may never know so HE has HIS work cut out and if she allows it I will be there when ever she lets down the wall she has put between us. Later
(((HUGS)))
You sound like you are expressing the “One true Scotsman” fallisy. The Pope and the RCC are perfectly happy with evolution and carbon dating. Are you saying that Roman Catholics aren’t Christian?
I don’t know about a true Scotsman fallisy. Never heard it.
I was raised Roman Catholic. Went to mass everyday for years and years. Went to Catholic school 11 years. I can say IMHO that I never considered myself a “Christian” I considered myself a “Practicing Catholic” I don’t recall ever hearing the word “Christian” in the Catholic doctrine.
I have heard Presbetarian’s and Luthern’s refer to themselves as Christians and I am beginning to see a pattern that many religions consider themselves to be “Christian” As I explained in my post above about the Band Aids. It is causing me to think.
Since so many people refer to themselves as 'Christian" and they each practice a different doctrine I can see where my comment about …to a Christian having a homosexual child would be terrible news…could prove offending.
So many people refer to themselves as Christian because they are Christian. Catholics included.
Main Entry: 1Chris·tian
1 a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ
Sounds to me like you’re the one who misunderstands the label, and not the other way around.
That very well may be. As I said I realized my comment was offensive and I apologize.
The No True Scotsman Fallacy:
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html#scots
If you define Christians as those who think like your church does, than it’s pretty easy to win this type of argument. By definition, all Christians think that way about homosexuality because anyone who doesn’t isn’t a true Christian.
For the record, I don’t think you hold to this line of reasoning, but I believe you are skirting the edges.
If you define Christians as those who think like your church does, than it’s pretty easy to win this type of argument. By definition, all Christians think that way about homosexuality because anyone who doesn’t isn’t a true Christian.
Are you saying that if you believe homosexuality is not wrong then you are not a Christan?
For the record, I don’t think you hold to this line of reasoning, but I believe you are skirting the edges. **
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I don’t know what you mean by this. Sorry.