Questioning Sexual Orientation - Need Website

In My Humble Opinion
41

Isabelle, IMHO, you are the cat’s meow. Also, IMHO, I am stunned that you didn’t know that other denominations are still called “Christian”! There are even Unitarians who call themselves Christians.

If you’re curious, you should check out www.religioustolerance.org . It’s a great, unbiased resource to learn more about how your denomination fits in under the biiiiiig umbrella of Christianity.

I hope the Christian sites I offered to you are/were helpful.

And for my final humble opinion, I might suggest that maybe your “You mean not only Southern Baptists are Christian???” revelation offended people, because many denominations trash others as being “UnChristian” just because they are different. NOT to accuse you of doing that, but so many SDMBers have seen it before (Hello, Jack Chick), that even a whiff gets their back up. Sometimes an innocent assumption is taken as a slight.

42

The No True Scotsman fallacy allows you define Scotsman as anyone who does things exactly as you describe. If your Christian church describes homosexuality as wrong, you would then limit true Christians to anyone who thinks homosexuality is wrong.

That’s why when you said that you didn’t know any Christians who supported homosexuality it triggered lots of warning bells. There are many Christian denominations that support homosexuality. By any objective determination they are Christian (believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ), but have different views than you. You may be unaware of these groups, but I can assure you they have many members and they are very mainstream.

It sounded like you were excluding them from the label “Christian” because they disagreed with you. My final statement was that I didn’t think you were doing that, but it sounded to many like you were. Now that you know about these other Christian denominations I would assume you’d retract your comments that no Christians think that way.

No I am not saying that. Christians hold a variety of views on lots of subjects, from evolution to homosexuality to transubstantion, but by a reasonable definition they are all Christian.

43

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by kung fu lola *
**Isabelle, IMHO, you are the cat’s meow.

[QUOTE]

kung fu lola How you doin? <g>

Also, IMHO, I am stunned that you didn’t know that other denominations are still called “Christian”! There are even Unitarians who call themselves Christians.

-----Nope. I started on a journey and I guess I have walked around with tunnel vision. :smack:

If you’re curious, you should check out www.religioustolerance.org .
----Thank you will do!
I hope the Christian sites I offered to you are/were helpful.
-----I haven’t had a chance to look at it yet. But I will. Promise.

44

Something I would NEVER be able to tell my “Christian” friends at church is about my exciting time in California.

I went to California a few years back and low and behold Gay Pride Parade was coming thru. I had never been before and didn’t know what to expect. The crowds were thick and I had the perfect view.

Well turns out someone left a suitcase on or near the Bart (which is like a train) and the police & bomb dogs were everywhere and chasing people down side streets. The police ended up detonating the suitcase with water cannons.

The parade started back up. It was great. The Dykes On Bikes were the best! Oh maybe the S&M guys were the best! Oh I don’t know. I just had a good time.

My friends would die if they knew I attended something like this.

45

Isabelle, has it started to dawn on you that you are a much better person than these “friends” of yours and maybe you should start trading up?

46

Funny you should say that Eve I was attending Faith Assembly of God for years and found that everyone seemed closed minded. So I went to First Christian Church. These people were worse. Then there was The Church of Nazerene…coulnd’t handle the doctrine, and then I decided on a Non-Denominational church.

I love the pastor of the church. He has a Johnny Carsonesqe persona. He preaches directly from the Bible and he explains everything so wonderful. I often have email discussions with him on controversial subjects. I enjoy this.

It is the congregation that I feel I have probelms with. I have found myself alienating people because their beliefs just don’t agree with me. (See history of friends in previous post above) WIth friends like that who needs enemies?

Come on…I shouldn’t be watching Survivor!!!

I don’t want to leave the church. But if I really thought about it the congregation is a product of the pastor.

I mean we have a club (for lack of better word) for recovering homosexuals. I do not believe for a second that someone can change their orientation on a dime. But the church supports this.

There are so many other issues that I don’t agree with.
I always feel like I am bucking the system.

I have visted other denominational churches but none fit like a glove.

I don’t know what to do. So in the meanwhile I try and keep my life as personal as possible to avoid conflict. Oh the web I weave

:rolleyes:

47

It would have been better if they were Jewish and holding boxes of a certain candy.

Then they would have been-

Dyke Kikes On Bikes With Mike And Ikes!
Somebody had to say it. And I got here first ;j

48

Wait, I thought I was the Catsmeow! laughing Kidding.
Seriously though, Isabelle another good Ministry is Spatula Ministries run by Barbara Johnson. She has a wonderful book called Where Does a Mother Go To Resign? that talks about her struggles with her 3 sons.

Another good book for your friend to read is Surface Tension:Love, Sex, and Politics Between Lesbians and Straight Women by Meg Daly.
surface tension

Hope these help!

Catsmeow

49

Isabelle, I’d be willing to bet that six months ago, you’d never met a Christian who was born in England, lives in America, and who used to ring bells in Hawaii. Nevertheless, I assure you I do exist. I have never, as far as I know, met a Young Earth Creationist or someone who believes in End Times theology in real life (the Episcopal Church isn’t real big on those issues), but I know Christians exist who believe those things, and I’ll even do them the favour of assuming their faith in Jesus Christ is as real and strong to them as mine is to me.

I’ve been an outcast. I’ve been told that it’s ridiculous and offensive for me to have a hope of someone being romantically interested in me. I know how that feels and what incredible damage it does to a person’s soul. I would not wish that on my worst enemy and I cannot stand by and let that be done to someone else. To do so would break the vows which I personally have made to God.

To be honest, my own parents are uncomfortable with homosexuality and consider it immoral, and I am profoundly grateful for their sakes that none of their kids are. Nonetheless, I’m quite sure that, if only for the sake of the family, if one of us had turned out to be gay, they would have done everything they could to come to terms with it and would not have turned one of their own children away from their house.

I think that, in praying for God to let her best become who he wishes her to be and for her to find peace with that, you’re doing the right thing. The thing is, it isn’t given to some of us to be conventional. I used to try at intervals, and I failed miserably at it as well as winding up miserable. Do you have the courage to ask God to grant you acceptance and peace if what this young woman turns out to be is not something you’re comfortable with? One of my church’s closing prayers asks God to “grant us strength and courage”. Sometimes doing His work requires that of us. Sometimes it requires us to look beyond the surface of a person to see who he or she truly is. It’s not easy, and it may result in some friends deserting you. On the other hand, you may be better off without such people, painful though it is.

By coming to this message board, by asking the questions you have been, and even by getting a good laugh out of that trip to California (wish I’d seen it, by the way!), you’ve shown a willingness to grow and look beyond which does you a great deal of credit, in my never-to-be-humble opinion. I hope you continue to do so.

CJ

50

Silly, silly, silly.

Siege: Whilst Jesus doesn’t specifically say that homosexuality is awful, I do believe that Paul lists it as one of the things that will keep you out of heaven (he gives a list of ten?). Also, it tells people to follow OT rules, which state… Yeah, abhorrent, and all that stuff.

:rolleyes:

I think that the mom should leave the topic well enough alone, and treat her daughter with love and respect. And tell her daughter that her decision about is completely her own.

51

To play your role, Gadfly, I’m going to have to ask for a cite on that, meaning chapter and verse so I can look it up for myself. Besides, that sets up a paradox. If anyone who claims Christ as his Saviour gets into heaven, then what becomes of a homosexual who accepts Christ as his Saviour? I’m not allowing the “he then magically ceases to be a homosexual” argument as an answer to this one.

Respectfully, but curiously,
CJ

52

Isabelle, you might want to try one or more of the more mainstream churches. You’d be more likely to find people who are “open minded” in the congregations. (Most of the ones you’ve been going to are on the evangelical, conservative side of the spectrum.) You might think one of them is a better fit.

One of my ex-roommates started out as a Wisconsin Synod Lutheran, which is a very conservative, evangelical branch of the Lutheran church. She ended up finding that she was happiest attending a relatively liberal/mainstream Greek Orthodox Church. She wasn’t Greek, or Orthodox (when she started going), but she loved it there and she was welcomed with open arms.

Good luck with your search.

53

To relate my own story my mom was suprisingly supportive. I think it was mostly because she loved me and she knew that I wouldn’t hesitate to exclude her from my life if she wasn’t supportive.

It seems like the person who is questioning is similarly as lucky.

54

Please describe this lifestyle as you understand it:)

So you had a decision between staying in an abusive situation and … not? And your friends found fault with you for getting out of an abusive situation?

I would humbly suggest to you that someone who shuns YOU because YOU get out of an abusive situation is not worth spending your time with (with careful caveats made … you didn’t, for example, leave your ex-husband with three children to raise, did you?).

It’s the people who care more about what their book says than what is most necessary in someone’s life who really worry me. There’s no telling what they might do.

55

Regardless of the “one true Scotsman” issue, I think Eve summmarized what a lot of other posters here were thinking: Isabelle, your friends and congregation seems like closed-minded jerks. I’m sorry to put it that way, but, well, okay, I’m really not. You come across as way, WAY more thoughtful and tolerant, much to your credit. I hope you can help Morgan in some way, because I don’t think her mom is going to.

56

If I may answer, I think the passages usually taken to condemn homosexuality are Leviticus 18:22

[I’ve also seen this without the 'kind’s at the end of man and woman.]

And Leviticus 20:13

(Italics not mine.) I don’t think there’s any ambiguity about either of these. In the first one, god is addressing Moses, who is presumably the ‘thou.’ The second passage doesn’t even leave that to chance. Perhaps it’s interesting to note that commandments against bestiality are located near both of these.

57

Nope. He said Paul; I want Paul.

CJ

58

Romans 1:26-27, and 1 Timothy 1:9-10 and 1 Corinthians 6:9. These links include not just the verses but interpretations from the “conservative” and “liberal” viewpoint.

59

http://www.newlife.com/10tips/BT325_christian_parents_gay_children.html

http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/10758

http://allies.tamu.edu/member%20writings/tubbs-nelson.htm

http://community-2.webtv.net/Garith14/GAYSUPPORT/

I don’t know if any of these have already been posted, but they all containg information about parenting gay children or perceptions of Christianity and homosexuality. I also must say that I don’t agree with everything on all of these sites, but I already have an opinion and shared it.
On a personal note, I know gays and some are Christian and some are not and I know Christians and some are Allies and some are not. For that matter, I know atheists and agnostics who are and are not Allies. I also know people who claim to be Allies and who make deliberate or subconscious remarks or exhibit behavior that contradicts their public stance. I really don’t think the labels are as important as the situation.

In experiences I have had with people who have come out to their families or have had family members come out, most have said that eventually the family became closer through being open and honest, though there were scary moments. One friend told me that they had to secure the firearms in the house for fear of a family member committing suicide.

As long as we roam this earth, we can always work on our relationships and on ourselves and this mother and daughter are not a done deal as long as everyone involved keeps their heads about them.

A little Christian forgiveness might go a long way too.

60

Thanks Otto. At the risk of veering too far into GD territory, just to knock off Leviticus, in 18:19 condemns having sex with a woman who’s menstruating, and 18:20 condemns having sex with the wife of a fellow countryman (nothing about having sex with the wives of foreigners). There’s more, but I’ll save that for future GDs.

InRomans 1:28-30, Paul speaks of people with depraved minds being given over to are “full of . . . deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful.” Somehow, gossip and malice get less press from some Christians than does homosexuality. 1 Timothy 9:10 also condemns liars and perjurers, as well as “fornicators” and “perverts”. 1 Timothy 2:12 is also the infamous passage which runs "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. " 1 Corinthians 6:9 says specifically that the unjust “will never come into the possession of the kingdom of God” and also condemns adultery right next to homosexuality.

It would seem to me that, if this woman rejects her daughter for a second time because she has only considered commiting one sin, while the woman lets her slide for considering commiting others, then she is being unjust. It’s a question I no longer expect an answer to, but why is homosexuality focussed on so much more than other sins?

CJ