Wasn’t sure about whether this belonged in GQ, but then I figured I’m basically soliciting opinion, so I’m chucking this in IMHO.
So, I’m thinking about pulling the trigger on the whole marriage thing within the foreseeable future. Now howsabout some help on the whole engagement ring thing?
That “two months salary” guideline thing…Is that net or gross?
How, exactly, do you determine your SO’s ring size without tipping them off to the whole thing? I was seriously considering slipping one of those plastic ring sizer things on her finger while she was sleeping, but that’s just creepy.
What tips do you have for buying diamonds? I’m completely lost here.
of all my engaged/married friends - yeah - 2 months salary is about right - unless you happen to be pulling in over $300K/annum - then one month ought to be sufficient.
exact size isn’t necessary - the ring can always be sized to fit later. If your intended has small hands, a size 6 ought to do. If she has large hands, and 8 or 9. But again, a good jeweler will have no trouble resizing it.
I’ve never been, here’s a site with a lot of information. Learn your stuff well, because there are merchants out there who count on the buyer knowing absolutely nothing about diamonds
a gross manipulation of the buying public by the diamond industry. Anyway, if you think it’s reasonable, and if your wife really needs a diamond that costs that much, go ahead.
Yeah, like anyrose said, you can get it close and have the band resized. Make sure you talk to the jeweler and ask, “can this band be resized”. Also, he might be able to sell you a stone with a “dummy band” – if you will – and then you go back in with your wife to pick out a setting. I THINK they’ll do that. My wife (a jeweler) sells diamonds (a little) and when she gets them, they come set in a cheap little silver (or stainless?) band that you can open by hand. The wholesaler doesn’t even want them back. I’m not sure what the big retail jewelers do.
Cut, color, clarity, size. Diamonds, believe it or not, do not get a huge retail mark-up. They make a killing on settings, though. I, personally, think that a well-cut, very clear diamond is really nice. Better than a bigger, duller one.
But, it’s all such hooey (sorry). I mean, you can really only tell some of these differences if you have two diamonds side-by-side on the same background under the same light, with a lens. You get it appraised, and the appraiser calls the retailer to find out what you paid, or they might even ask you. I’m not sure. Because, there isn’t really an objective value for a diamond that an appraiser and a jeweler are going to agree on. The price is controlled by just how many diamonds the cartels wish to release.
It’s a rotten, stupid enterprise and it’s the rare couple that is able to forgo the whole thing. I got my wife a piece of estate jewelery. I think the diamonds are lesser quality, but the setting is really cool.
If you’re making $60000 a year, and you spend $10000 on a ring, either you’re marrying a VERY SHALLOW woman, or she’s marrying a VERY STUPID man. Even if it’s net, you’re talking about spending 6-7000 on a ring, right?
Talk it over with her, dude.
Pick out rings together.
The thousands that you spend on a ring right now, are thousands you’re not going to get to spend on each other later. Thousands that aren’t going to grow in an IRA, thousands you’re not going to have for a down payment, thousands you’re not going to have for a honeymoon.
Another way to get ring size is to “borrow” another one of her rings, assuming she wears other rings. The left hand’s fingers might be a tiny bit smaller than the right, but not likely to make a difference.
However, let me offer another suggestion. Unless you’re positive what kind of ring she wants, select the ring together. The whole “opening of the tiny box with the perfect jewelry in it as you propose” scene is fraught with danger. Sure, you can guess whether she likes white gold, platinum, or yellow gold. And what shape gem she likes. Whether she likes a simple or an elaborate setting. Whether a large stone looks good on her hand. Or you can take the word of some jeweler that’s really only after you for one thing: your money.
Presumably you’ve already determined that you really do want to marry her and that the feeling is mutual, and have talked about a whole lot of other things that are much more important than diamonds. So why not pick out the trinket together? Maybe she doesn’t even want an expensive ring. Maybe she’d rather have some other gemstone. There is no rule that it has to be a diamond. Some very practical women would much prefer money in the bank.
That "two months salary guideline thing "was made up by the De beers diamond cartel just like most of the tradition of buying diamond engagement rings. De beers has an amazing skill of controlling both the supply and demand of diamonds. They are creating the same “tradition” in Japan now where none existed historically.
You spend as much as you feel comfortable doing. Size isn’t everything and a large diamond doesn’t look right on many females. Like any other large purchase, weigh the pros and cons of spending more or less.
You can have rings re-sized to some degree. Does she have another ring you could swipe and have measured? You could surprise her with the diamond and then take her to pick the setting. The possibilities are endless. You don’t have to have the whole thing complete when you clue her in on her fate.
Learn about diamonds on the web first. Then spend some time learning about what loose diamonds cost. They are basically a commodity item that are graded on cut, color, clarity, and carets. Spend 6 hours or so learning all about what diamonds cost and how they are graded. Once you do that, you won’t be screwed. When you see them in person, you have to decide what is right for you.
I got my wife a diamond in color ‘F’ because that is pretty clear with some small inclusions. Other people want bigger diamonds that aren’t as clear (color J - L for example). Other people want no inclusions. My recommendation is to get a clear diamond over the other things. You can’t really see inclusions with the naked eye but you can see color.
The store will tell you all about the “4Cs” but probably won’t add:
A brightly sparkling diamond looks bigger than its actual carat weight would suggest.
If the clarity grade is less than about SI-1 (slightly included = a couple of flaws that aren’t visible to the naked eye) the sparkle may be diminished.
The quality of the cutting and polishing will be the major determinant of how sparkly the stone is. Diamond certificates from the EGL or GIA will specifically list the quality of the proportions, the symmetry and the polish.
A diamond that “speaks” to the wearer is best.
The suggested two-month-salary price range is quite often followed, but your financial picture may allow less or more and that’s fine.
That’s just a bunch of bullshit promulgated by the DeBeers Diamond Monopoly. :mad:
Ask her Mom. But I think it’s better to “tip them off”. Get an inexpensive CZ ring that looks about right* (say $100+ or so, but get real 14k gold) and give it to her, than say (after she accepts) “This is just a CZ, if you like, Now, we can go shopping for the ring that you really want”. There are several possibilities here:
A. She is socially aware, and buying “blood diamonds” horrifies her- she might just want another stone. Some small % of women hate diamonds.
B. She would rather get a heirloom ring- fromantique stores and such
C. She hates diamonds but loves Sapphires or whatever- then she wants one of those- and Blue Sapphires are as traditional as Diamonds.
D. She loves you so much or she’s so romantic that the CZ ring you just gave her has so much meaning that that’s all she wants. In this case, and if you find out she does love diamonds, you then have to get her some diamond earrings 1st chance you get.
*Another choice- a choice that generally can’t lose- is a family heirloom ring- ask your Mother if there is one. If you slip her your beloved Grandmothers ring- and explain and even say “but if you don’t like this, we can go ring shopping”- she will think you’re wonderful. Then, it’s a modest chance she’ll still want to go ring-shopping. If so, then you have scored twice- first by being romantic and thoughtful, and second by buying her the rock she really wants. Note that a family heirloom ring doesn’t have to have been an engagement ring, nessesarily.
When/if you DO go ring shopping with her- You must figure out your limit ahead of time. Let’s say it’s $2000. Then you have two choices. If she is very practical, tell her your limit. If not, take the salesperson aside and say “only show us stuff in the $1000-$2000 range”.
Ignore the salary thing, go for what you can afford and she will like. If Brainiac4 would have spent two months salary on an engagement ring, we wouldn’t have gotten married - what a waste of money when you are starting out!!!
Unless you know what she wants, go shopping together. I have what most people would think is an anniversary band - small channel cut - which is both my wedding ring and my engagment ring. I’m not a solitaire kind of girl. And the point about “not everyone likes diamonds” is fair as well.
Tips for buying diamonds - don’t go to a mall or a “wedding jeweler” Find a guy who is selling jewelry out of an office building somewhere - a family business. The stones are better quality and its a lot cheaper (less overhead). Visit several of these guys (and let them know you are shopping around). They will help you pick a good stone for a reasonable amount of money, and their business is in seeing you back for the fifth anniversary.
Don’t shock a girl by proposing. I actually have turned down two marriage proposals in my life. Of course, one was when I was seventeen from an idiot, but still.
Lord, how I hate that “two months’ salary” thing. As others have said, it’s a bunch of crap invented by the diamond cartel and has no basis in tradition. If my husband had spent that much on my engagement ring, I’d have thought he was an idiot. Seriously. We discussed it ahead of his ring shopping, and I told him what I wanted, and it wasn’t anything so big or fancy as to cost nearly as much as DeBeers would have liked him to spend.
Sorry, pet peeve of mine. Spend as much as is a reasonable amount for you and you’re comfortable spending.
The ring you buy will probably have to be resized anyway, so don’t stress about getting it exactly right, but you can get close by borrowing one that she won’t miss if it’s gone for a couple days.
And DrDeth brings up a good point: make sure a diamond ring is actually what she would want. There are quite a few women who prefer other stones, and some who don’t even want a ring at all (a friend of mine asked her fiance to buy her a nice new gas range instead; she loves to cook, and much preferred something useful to something purely decorative).
To the OP: If you aren’t getting all of these De Beers references, the Master’s article on them is below. It is the most shocking story in modern business that I know of. They engage in everything from slavery to complete market manipulation to keep diamonds (artificially) as the most desired precious gem. Diamonds are not truly rare as far as gemstones go and if you go back even 100 years before De Beers had its hands firmly in it, the weren’t the most traditional or desired engagement stone. It is a made-up market that has a real cost in human terms. I am about as far from bleeding-heart as you get and it shocks even me.
We’ve talked. She definitely wants a diamond ring.
I agree that it’s a tremendous waste when you’re spending tens of thousands on something decorative when that money could fund a good chunk of the house down payment. I’m sure she would agree with me. So maybe I should have a more serious talk about all this and see what she really wants, ring-wise.
Listen carefully, because this is the most important thing about all this. If you have this conversation and she doesn’t agree with you and still thinks the big honking ring is a good idea (not wants it anyway - its pretty and sparkly and all and most women do want it - but insists it “must be done”) this is a sign that you are not on the same page about what will be one of the most important things in a life together - your financial priorities. Money is going to enable nearly everything you do for the rest of your life - and if you want to spend it practically, and she wants to show off for the neighbors, you are going to be miserable.
This is one of “the signs” that couples should watch for.
(My mother got hers for her twenty fifth wedding anniversary. By that time the house was bought, the kids were (mostly) through college. Its a darn pretty rock, and purchased at a much more appropriate time in life.)
I suggest that the two of you go and look at rings together. Once she realizes the price, she may lose interest, or want something else
I don’t believe in owning diamonds, but my husband wanted to get me an engagement ring, since we finally were getting married after 17 years of dating. But after seeing that was going to be like $8,000 for the ring he wanted to get me we decided to just get a wedding ring with channel set diamonds for about $800 to make neither of us happy.
This is such good advice that I wished I had thought to put a similar caveat in my post.
Another danger sign is an insistance upon a HUGE “last days of Pompei” type wedding that her parents really can’t afford. “Her day” does have to be special- it doesn’t have to be expensive.
Oh for christ’s sake. No it isn’t. It just means that society at large has accepted the rituals and, tho’ maybe some folks on the SDMB are perspicacious enough to see through them, you can be a thoughtful, level-headed and financially secure individual who still thinks a diamond is important. And maybe the reason you think that is because you’ve been brought up in a society conditioned by DeBeers to make you think it, but so what?
