Rabid Christians, quit telling me I'm going to Hell!

The BBQ Pit
1

If I hear it one more time, I think I’ll scream!
I don’t know which is more insulting, the fact that you think you have the audacity to play God with my life, or the fact that I go to church with some of you and I know more about the Bible than YOU do.
I mean FACTS about the Bible, too, not interpretation. That’s your own personal business.
Yes, I dress the way I want to dress. Just because I wear a good deal of black and other dark colors does not mean I worship Satan. It also does not mean I’m a goth, though your premise that all those who participate in the goth subculture are headed for Hell is ignorant. I have an idea for you: how about doing unbiased research about subjects you know nothing about?
Another note about style: Just because I dress bohemian/hippie sometimes does not mean I am a drug user or promiscuous. I also think your conclusion that all who use drugs or engage in sexual activity outside of male-female marriage go to Hell is again, ignorant.
No, I’ve never been pregnant and had an abortion. I don’t know if I even want kids. Where on earth are you getting these idiotic ideas about me? Apparently you know NOTHING about who I am!
On the subject of swearing, you pathetic morons, don’t tell me what I can and cannot say. I don’t use bad language at school because the rules forbid it. I do have a few words that I don’t ever use. I won’t use bad language around you if you ask me nicely, but respect the fact that with other people, I might curse. I also curse when I get extremely mad or badly hurt. I think it’s a bad habit, too, and I’m trying to break it. Don’t make it worse by yelling at me instead of trying to help.
Also, the “discussion” we had today about music pissed me off, to be frank. I don’t mind if you tell me you don’t like some of the music I listen to (although we agree on other choices). I don’t like some of the music you listen to, either. Tell me, though, since when is it okay to tell me that my music is an “influence for evil” and “Satanic” and your music is “Godly”? Maybe it is, and maybe it isn’t. I don’t think the Christian music you listen to is all that great, because most of it does not seem to require a great deal of talent…but that’s my opinion. Just because I listen to a song about (insert vice here) doesn’t mean I’m going to go out and do whatever the song is talking about. It doesn’t mean I’m an instrument of the devil because I prefer secular rock music. Your premise that I am, however, makes me doubt if we can stay friends.
My final question to you: How do you know what a Satanist is, when you foam at the mouth and run when you hear the word? Did you know that most Satanists think Satan isn’t even a real being? Of course not! What information you can’t find in the Bible doesn’t matter, does it? Why not just lock yourselves in your houses with your Bible so you can be as self-righteous as you want? Wait…wouldn’t that just kill your “witness”? Then again, IMO, you’ve already destroyed what “witness” you have with me.

(Disclaimer: I am, in fact, a Christian, and I am not belittling Christianity in general, homosexual or premarital relationships, Satanists, or ANY music genre. I’m just rather tired of hearing about all the supposedly “horrible” things I do that are sending me straight to Hell.)

2

Quick questions here-

  1. How can one be a Satanist and not believe in Satan? Just curious.

  2. Why not switch to a different religion? It sounds as though you do not believe the same things as the others in your faith. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing - I think I feel the same way as you do about all of the examples you give - but why hang out with a group that has different beliefs, then get mad because they believe different things?

3

Hun, i’m gonna tell you how i used to deal with folks like this. I like to think that i’ve grown out of this, but quite honestly i’ll probably do it again the very next chance i get.

Flaming Holier then Thou Rat Ass: Ye shall burn in hell lest ye conform to our scratchy, uncomfortable clothes and put at least $50 in the collection plate!!

You: Well, when i was talking to satan this morning he told me to feast on the flesh of the next Chrisitians i saw. Have you noticed any around here?

F.H.T.T.R.A.: (Run away screaming dropping basket of oat cakes, never bother you again)

You: What nice people, i wonder if they’d mind if i ate their oat cakes (Eat the oat cakes)
It really is that simple! and fun!

4

Nocturne, I totally feel your pain. I am a christian, and very proud of it. There are many (thats almost an understatement) in our faith that quickly forget the basic christian values. They are set on some righteous quest to save the world from all that is different from them. My father is a Baptist minister, he raised me to always keep an open mind. He also said the best way to be a christian is not to promote it or cram it in someones face. Be judged by your actions not your words. He also encourged me to study other religeons, he said it would give me knowledge and strengthen my faith, and give me a better understanding of where I stand in a world with so many different people. I wish more people of all faiths had the same attitude as my father, we all would get along so much easier. I’ve studied and have spent some time with many different religions, and have learned so much. If you want you are welcome to write me, I’ve had the same thoughts as you for quite awhile.

5

RiffRaff, what’s termed “Satanism” is not a belief in Satan per se, but from what I’ve heard (from those who call themselves Satanists), Satanists do not believe that Satan is a real figure, more of an archetypal one whose values should be emulated. Basically gothic hedonists, to quote someone else.
If anyone else has better information on it, please enlighten me…
Anyway, moving on–RiffRaff, to answer question 2, I believe in the basic tenets of Christianity. I have no desire to become Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Ba’hai, etc. I, however, do not believe that the Bible promotes maliciousness and ignorance. I think in order to be as useful to God as possible, you need to be as nice and as educated as you can be. That’s what I try to do…so no, I’m not converting, I don’t care what everyone else around me is doing. That doesn’t seem any basis for a choice of religion.
I’m not trying to be snide or anything, though.

6

I would deffinatly sugest that you not change faiths. Just learn about the other faiths.

7

::pulling on asbestos undies::

Look at it like this, if these people really believe in hell, they are willing to risk ridicule by warning you of what they feel will send you there, then they care.

Thank them for their concern, know they really are doing what they think is best and go on. In the end the decisions are yours and yours alone.

And one other thing, I was involved in satanism for awhile, there are many satanist who do believe in satan as a being, and having been a part of that scene, read the satanic bible and ritual book and seen things I still will not talk about. I can tell you it is nothing to play with. Again these people are concerned, they may not have the facts straight about you, but they care. I know it’s a pain to listen to them so don’t. But I would be more down on them if they didn’t give a damn.

JMHO

8

RiffRaff - Christianity is not one religion. There are many factions and we do not all think alike. I myself am Christian, but consider myself non-denominational because although I believe in Heaven, Hell, God, Jesus Christ, etc, I have yet to find a specific Christian church that shares my beliefs on the details. Until then, I’ll worship my own way and think for myself.

Nocturne - you know you’re going to burn in hell for that OP.
(hey someone was gonna be a smart-ass and say it, I just wanted to be the first)
Actually, I can sympthaize. I am SO fucking tired of people hear me say I’m Christian and then jump to the conclusion I’m a right wing, pro-life, Bible thumping, holier-than-thou, homophobe because they’ve had the unfortunate experience of running into these outspoken zealots. We should start our own Christian Church. The Church of Get the Hell Off My Back, You Fuckin Fanatics!

9

I’m on a Christian message board.

It’s worse than the old LBMB.

Just a few weeks ago I got to explain to someone how homosexuality and pedophilia are not inherently related. Person I’m arguing with quotes 20-year-old Merck manual. Person in support of me, who’s gay, says he is not a pedophiliac. Person I’m arguing with quotes obscure Bible passage that means nothing. I explain to Person that my grandfather was a pedophile and definitely not gay.

This guy only stopped when he saw the most current Merck manual, which is still flawed (but not as much as it was). I don’t even know that he got the point.

I won’t even get into the guy who debates by basically saying “no your wrong” and then posts an entire chapter of the Bible in his defense. Forget that it bears almost no relevance.

10

AMEN, Brother Crunchy :smiley:

11

Nocturn,

Please forgive them. Like the rest of us, they “know not what they do.”

Christ’s message is not that you are going to hell, His message is that He loves you. He told them to love you too, and that’s what they think they are doing. It’s pathetic, I know. Don’t follow Christians, Christians are idiots.

We crucify Him again, every day, when we speak our own hatred in His name. We drive His children away with our own self-righteousness.

Like you, we are lost. Some of us do know it. He is the only one who knows your heart, and the only one whose judgment matters. Look for the love in the hearts of those you meet. That matters more than their philosophy. Keep that love in your heart, too. He will find it there.

12

Ok, let’s just keep it within the realm of Christianity then. You say yourself that there is not a specific denomination that you know of that matches your beliefs, so you do not affiliate yourself with any of those groups. It doesn’t make sense to be a Presbyterian if you don’t believe what the Presbyterians believe, right?

The OP seems to be coming into conflict with a group of people. We’re not even talking about a certain denomination, just this particular group of people. All I’m asking is, why be with a group of people who all clearly believe different things than you do if it is causing such conflict?

13

Count me among the black clothing wearers.
No one has ever commented on that, however.
I used to go to a church where they told the women not to wear short shorts or revealing clothes (say, to the church bar be que).
Why? Its because its tempting to the men, and if they sin, its YOUR fault for wearing those clothes!
I feel your pain.
My last church, the pastor said if you voted for Gore, you were personally responsible for murdered babies(abortions).
I wore my Nader pin a few times, but no one said anything. :slight_smile:
My advice, find another church.

14

Resident Christian checking in here.

It’s possible to quote the Bible out of context in support of any personal prejudice you may happen to have. Sounds like that’s what some of these people cited by the OP and several responders are doing. (Extreme example is Psalm 14:1b “There is no God” – though very few Christians quote that one!)

Arm yourself with a few verses of your own:

“Judge not, lest you be judged.”

“The first and great commandment is, ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul and mind and strength.’ And the second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ In these are all the Law and the Prophets.”

Pastiche of a couple of conversations:

“The Bible says…”
“Yeah, but that was in specific reference to…”
“You’re gonna stand there and tell me that you don’t think … is evil.”
“Yep – or at least not necessarily evil.”
“You can’t be much of a Christian, then.”
“Sorry you think that; I just try to do what Jesus said.”
“Well, I think you’re wrong, because it’s clear what the Bible said.”
“You believe in the Bible, then?”
“Absolutely.”
“Sorry to hear that; I believe in God, myself. Let me tell you about Him…”
:smiley:
One final comment: One of the finest true Christians I know is Navigator, who occasionally posts over here, usually in Great Debates, and is a moderator on the Pizza Parlor ( http://thebruces.stormbirds.org/forum/index.php ). And he and I had dinner with Satan a couple months ago. (Check out this comment: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1099640 .)

15

Triskadecamus, you have utterly confused me.

To all who have said as much: It’s not my church exactly. It’s people, some who do go to my church, and some who do not, that range from mere acquaintances to good friends. Since I live in the buckle of the Bible Belt, I am surrounded every day by people who are drunk on the Bible. So drunk, in fact, that they beat me over the head with it.
Then again, we have narrow-minded people here that don’t tell me I’m going to hell, they just give me hell.
I think the problem all of them have with me is that I’m a nonconformist and they just can’t stand that.

Crunchy, I’m with you. Let’s start a church.

16

Dunno what’s confusing about Tris’s post.

He’s saying Jesus never said, “Thou shalt lustily smite the unbeliever about the head with thy Bible.” And He never said to judge others by their clothes, skin color, taste in music, sexual orientation, or whatever else – in fact, He said just the opposite.

But it’s damned easy for someone to take that collection of 66 books and find a line in it somewhere that supports their petty prejudice of the moment. (FYI, I’m not swearing; I used the term in its exact technical sense.) And, humanity being the rationalizing animal, it’s a strong temptation to do just that.

Have compassion on them. Because one other thing Jesus said: “For with the judgment you mete out, you will be judged.”

If I were a fundamentalist, that would scare the Hell out of me.

Feel free to start your own churches, Nocturne and Crunchy, but be aware that there are churches out there who already feel just the way you do. The trick is to find them. Lemme know if I can help.

17

:slight_smile:

You know, I get that a lot!

Ok, here goes try number two. No one who tells you what Jesus thinks of you is right, not even me. No one who tells you that you are going to hell is speaking of anything other than his own perceptions, and desires. To put it into formal theological terms, they are full of shit.

Jesus is quite capable of saving your soul without the assistance of human moralists, however well read they are.

Jesus told me to love you. He certainly did not tell me to judge you. I choose to accept his love. I heartily and happily encourage you that you are his beloved daughter. He already knows all about you, and doesn’t need anyone to help you be more to his liking. If you are doing things that hurt you, please stop.

It really isn’t all that confusing. Love Him, let Him love you, love everyone else. (Now comes the part that some people find the most difficult) Let Him love everyone else.

Still confused?

18

I just wanted to highlight from the immediately prior post one of Tris’s most cogent observations (and singularly well phrased, too):

19

Religion isn’t exactly–well, not even approximately–my strong suit, but this discussion brought to mind an example that seems to illustrate a few points.

My brother-in-law suffered a stroke recently. He comes from a large family, more generally fond than close-knit exactly. Some are still “at home” in Hazard Co., KY; others live as far away as Germany and CA. Some of his family are strict fundamentalists.

He was recovering nicely, much to our relief, as he has other severe health problems as well. Two of his more fundamentalist (and rarely seen) relatives showed up, unannounced, for a totally unprecedented visit. My sister was polite but confused as the visit dragged on and on and on, plainly tiring my bro-in-law and the talk all centering on religion.

When they finally left my bro-in-law had to explain that they expected him to die–and they didn’t want him to do it as a sinner. My sister was appalled and then outraged, but my bro-in-law was more amused and indulgent than anything.

See, while not agreeing with them he still understood that they were trying to do the right thing by their lights. (He’s one of the flat-out kindest people I’ve ever met. His highest praise is someone is generous. He and my sis have several times taken casual friends into their home to live, no questions asked and no payment accepted, for MONTHS while weathering crises.)

Talk about being bound with folks who hold strict, limited religious views! I readily admit my initial reaction was outrage, croggling over the mindset of visting kin barely recovered from a life threatening illness, saying in effect, “Well, we wanted to get here before you died to harangue you into our concept of salvation while there’s still time.” It was a real education in genuine strength, perspective and generosity to see how my bro-in-law handled it. He didn’t get mad, he didn’t argue and he didn’t blame them for what they did. Again, I’m far from expert on religious matters but if that isn’t forgiveness it’ll sure do for government work (as we hillbillies are wont to say).

I don’t know where he got his SOLIDITY dealing with religious pressure but I suspect a long life helped; doubt it was something he learned right off or without effort. But somewhere along the line he learned a version of “don’t apologize, don’t explain and don’t argue: just live it”.

Actually I have no idea why it seemed pertinent to pour forth with this. Maybe just a tribute to the most unassuming, common, kindly man who handles this with uncommon grace. He’d be embarrassed to death at the idea of being an EXAMPLE (then crack up laughing) but danged if he isn’t somehow, for this discussion.

Retreating in considerable confusion,
Veb

20

I had a discussion about this with somone just the other day. I am sick of defending Christianity from the actions of Christians.
I don’t know how many times I had to say to my friend that if she wanted to really know what Christianity was about - then to look at Christ, not at Christians. Unfortunately she is still too hung up on what she thinks the Bible says, and what other Christians have done/told her, to consider Christianity as possibly being a valid faith. I think I cleared up a few things, but there is a long way to go.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not one to force my faith, and I certainly don’t bring up Jesus at every opportunity (I’m with mighty_maxx’s dad on that one!) but I hate it when people seem to have made up their minds on an issue without knowing the details, or worse, from the wrong details.

Unfortunately, Christians aren’t always a very good advert for Christianity.