[coughs politely]
‘epithets’
[/coughs politely]
Well, no you should not be able to generally create spaces in “public at large” where people aren’t allowed to insult you. If their speech strays into something that might constitute a threat or etc then it’s a different matter. But as a matter of course universities, even public ones, are allowed to have a student code of conduct and are allowed to punish you for something like using a racial slur, so I would imagine anywhere on a college campus would be a place you could not use racial slurs. The Supreme Court decision that indicated you don’t leave your First Amendment rights behind at the school house door, specifically noted that schools do have some need to keep order and discipline among their students, so could be more restrictive than most government entities.
You can also be kicked out of other public facilities like a court house or library for being disruptive. But what you can’t do is take a place that is an open public forum and turn it into a private space, i.e. a public square I can mostly shout whatever I want, no matter how offensive.
It’s times like this I could double down in defense of my error by attacking you to cover up my embarrassment or I can thank you for pointing that out. In this day and age, why be reasonable? I kid. I kid. I was of course thinking of the legendary newspaper The Tombstone Epitaph.
I’m genuinely unsure about this. The US right made a huge deal out of campus “speech codes,” and my understanding was that saying grotesquely awful things to folks on campus public spaces was constitutionally protected speech. In the nineties, I remember campus preachers explicitly calling specific women “whores” because of how they were dressed.
Am I wrong? Has some court decided that such speech does not hold constitutional protection?
Not everyone on campus would be subject to a student code of conduct. A lot of University Campuses a significant portion of the outdoor and even some of the indoor spaces are fully open to the public, they’re also often in the middle of towns. So I don’t know that some crazy preacher could be removed from a street corner that just happens to be in a university campus, for screaming racial slurs. But students can be punished for violating the code of conduct even in their private residences, technically, so I would think they could be punished in public as well.
I think there may be part of the answer here.
and
I was looking at the ACLU’s comments on “safe spaces,” and came across this interesting article
The article was written after the Pulse nightclub shooting.
So, no, “safe space” doesn’t always refer to safety from physical violence. But sometimes that’s part of the value.
Here’s a more on-point cite for people who like to think of themselves as ACLU-like free-speech purists:
Well, freedom of speech does include the right to be offensive. It’s sort of a feature of freedom of speech to be honest. And to reiterate, a strong promotion of robust and comprehensive liberty is by far a better alternative for society than any other.
On school grounds, using school resources. Seriously, if White students this there would be Hell to pay. “Safe spaces?” The whole object is to make every place a safe place.
Do you let anyone into your living room to say or do whatever they want to do? Or are you selective as to who you allow in to socialize with?
In a college setting, they don’t have private areas to be selective about, so some public areas should have some rules as to what sorts of conduct is acceptable.
Unless you open your living room to anyone who wants to troll you with their views, you have your own little safe space, and you are simply being hypocritical to deny someone else theirs.
…And? So what?
How can you “so what” that? White people and Black people have identical histories of social power in the United States, identiical histories of the way society has worked in their favor or against them, and identical experiences now with racism, so of course it makes sense to analogize directly between a voluntary “black commencement” and a voluntary “white commencement.”
Late to this thread, but I’m 60 years old and until just now thought I had a certain cultural awareness. I never knew that, and I’m not sure I’m even familiar with that song.
In any case, we had a student groups in undergraduate and law school based on race, religion (a Jewish law student society of some sort) and geography (Asian-Pacific law students). This was over 30 years ago. Didn’t bother me then, doesn’t bother me now.
I get that the tone was sarcastic, but I thought @Ann_Hedonia had a good point earlier about what “white” means in that context.
If there was a special commencement for students of Irish, or Polish, or Iranian heritage, then no one would have any objection, even if all of those participating are “white”.
However, what “white” means is not a particular cultural or ethnic heritage, it simply means not a discriminated against minority.
And if those who can only define themselves as not being a part of a discriminated against minority feel the need to have their own special events, excluding those who are a discriminated against minority, then they are almost certainly racists.
The OP lost me at Bill Maher is astute. Bill Maher isn’t astute. He’s a troll. I think he’s a lot like Candace Owens. He doesn’t really believe the things he says, he’s willing to say what his audience wants to hear to make a buck, and the trolling gets him attention. But that’s neither here nor there.
With respect to the issue, what a lot of posters do not seem to understand is that systemic racism is very real. And if you don’t have to live in the shoes of somebody who has to deal with it all the time, then you really cannot appreciate what their lives are like. I don’t pretend to fully understand, but I try to empathize and be an ally. It is not enough to not be racist, it is important to be anti-racist. If they say, look, you won’t get this but we need a space where we just don’t need to deal with all the BS that we deal with because of our race, religion, sexual orientation, then my reply is “Ok. If you say you need it, then I believe you because I can, even without having lived it, see even a small slice of the BS you have to deal with. And the reality is probably much worse.”
So my suggestion would be try to step outside of your worldview defined by your life and try to understand that other people have to deal with different issues that may not be immediately obvious to you.
Also, the two students discussed above went in there looking to pick a fight. And then they obviously faked being shocked and insulted that somebody called them out. If you go looking for trouble, and find it, then you really don’t have a cause to whine.
Typical bullshit “fallacy of the survivor”. Sure you all “got along”, you know that for a fact that maybe a gay guy who lived on your hall had to keep it on the down-low because he heard homophobic shit (said in jest of course) from the rest of you, yeah, he got along just fine.
The OP lost me at Bill Maher is astute. Bill Maher isn’t astute. He’s a troll. I think he’s a lot like Candace Owens. He doesn’t really believe the things he says, he’s willing to say what his audience wants to hear to make a buck, and the trolling gets him attention. But that’s neither here nor there.
I’ve been watching Bill Maher from his ABC “Politically Incorrect” days. Sadly, as he’s gotten older, he’s become a crank. And because he was disinvited from a few college gigs, he has an axe to grind with higher education. I was yelling at the TV because he is so confidently wrong.
I regularly attend Black Graduation, Latinx Graduation, Lavender Graduation, and First Gen Graduation. AFAIK, virtually all the students attend the main convocation. It’s just a more intimate community celebration. WITH WHITE AND STRAIGHT PEOPLE INVOLVED. Most of those who critique ethnic/community graduations have never been to one. My white colleague came to Black graduation and said to me at the end (with tears in her eyes) that it was one of the most moving events she’d ever attended. (And yes, the Greeks stroll when they accept their diplomas… quite a sight.)
My uni is a state institution, so no event is reserved only for any ethnic or racial group. The audience is typically mixed - and frankly, it’s good for folks in the dominant group to be in the minority for a celebration. Helps get a sense of what it is like for the students.
I find it amusing that the RW trolls who sit in a multicultural center never find their way to a graduation event. If they did, they would probably actually forget their trolling and actually see what a good time it is. I was asked to speak at Lavender (queer) Graduation a few years ago and I was quite nervous… until I realized that a ton of my students were graduating, and it was a chance to be immersed in the community that had supported them so unwaveringly during their degrees. And the outfits were… amazing. One student was in drag with 8 inch translucent heels and managed to walk up the stairs, down, and slay everyone in viewing proximity.
That having been said, the students who confronted “Police lives matter” dude sort of played into his hands. Now he can claim victimhood while the Daily Caller and Campus Reform wail about the danger of angry Black kids. I tell students that they should be aware of their surroundings, but obvious trolls like this are typically filming… or are more dangerous. Best to ignore them and keep it moving.
I am not a fan of “safe spaces.” Learning and having one’s horizons stretched is typically uncomfortable. I believe in respectful and courageous spaces, where people can be their authentic selves and in community with others. But occasionally one’s worldview and perspective can be challenged and that’s not necessarily a bad thing - if there’s an opportunity for growth and engagement. Those first moments of encountering new ideas or perspectives can feel quite unsafe, but if the environment supports the individual and the experience of learning, it can also be a space of immense growth.
But freedom of speech doesn’t automatically require schools to put up with offensive behavior on the part of their students. (Or staff, for that matter.)
What’s the difference, in practice, between the constructs that are colloquially referred to as “safe spaces” and “respectful and courageous spaces”?
Because IME, there’s not much difference. A “safe space” doesn’t mean one where your worldview and perspective never get challenged. It just means that the people in it are committed to being respectful towards you and one another.
I guess the best way I can describe it is that having one’s comfort level, or being challenged on a deeply held belief is inherently unsafe. But it’s the dissonant moments that can often produce the most learning if the adequate support is provided, and there is an expectation that those moments can be gifts and spaces of growth. It’s well explained in this poem, which is credited to a Beth Strano:
There is no such thing as a “safe space” —
We exist in the real world.
We all carry scars and have caused wounds.
This space
seeks to turn down the volume of the world outside,
and amplify voices that have to fight to be heard elsewhere,
This space will not be perfect.
It will not always be what we wish it to be
But
It will be our space together,
and we will work on it side by side.
I think the ethos of a safe space might suggest pulling back from discomfort rather than finding ways to discuss and confront it.