:dubious:. Looking at Trump’s bloviating “leadership” one gets results like this:
That is, right now, an argument from ignorance.
To counter things like that, the typical reaction from Trump is…
‘Lets remove NPR’s funding!’
Going back to the topic of China’s control of the narrative and the OP question* "Or because China has more clout and the international community is more reluctant to anger China? "*
Dr. Bruce Aylward Assistant Director-General of the WHO in an interview where first he says he didn’t hear a question about the WHO and Taiwan, then deliberately ends the call and finally praises China as a response to questions about Taiwan, it’s obvious that he is acting with China’s interests in mind:
For those that don’t know it’s China’s policy that Taiwan doesn’t exists as an independent nation and that is the reason it has blocked Taiwan from the WHO and other UN agencies.
[Taiwan has accused the World Health Organisation of succumbing to political pressure from mainland China after the island failed to receive an invitation to a major international meeting.
Beijing sees self-governing democratic Taiwan as part of its territory awaiting reunification and has used its clout to diminish the island’s presence on the world stage since Beijing-sceptic President Tsai Ing-wen took power in May 2016.
Last year was the first time in eight years that Taiwan was not granted access to the World Health Assembly (WHA), the WHO’s main meeting.
The White House said on Saturday that China’s aviation authorities had sent letters to 36 foreign airlines including US firms demanding they refer to Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Macau as Chinese territories.
“This is Orwellian nonsense and part of a growing trend by the Chinese Communist Party to impose its political views on American citizens and private companies,” the White House said.](Taiwan accuses World Health Organisation of bowing to Beijing over invitation to top health meeting | South China Morning Post)
Again:
The theory that the WHO did not call the virus “Wuhan virus” for political reasons has been completely debunked – China does not have access to a time machine to go back to 2015.
So any mud about the WHO being reluctant to upset China, is nothing to do with anything.
To Ale:
Actually, many over here does know about that too. Again as I said before, China’s rulers do deserve condemnation, but that is not what the OP was about. You are talking about a related but different narrative.
After noticing that after 2015 the rules on naming where changed, the answer for the OP is that no, China is not controlling the naming of it; and the USA is a member of the WHO, so as it was pointed before: the dishonorable Chinese rulers do have a point about the naming of the virus. Not much of a valid point about other things, and Trump also trusted the Chinese leadership on many other related items with really no valid reason to do that.
…or do they?!
Ale,Taiwan (Republic of China) and China (People’s Republic of China) were born out of the same civil war, with neither entity recognizing the sovereignty of the other. This mutual non-recognition continues to this day.
Here is a pretty good Wiki explanation:
The position of the PRC is that the ROC ceased to be a legitimate government upon the founding of the former on 1 October 1949 and that the PRC is the successor of the ROC as the sole legitimate government of China, with the right to rule Taiwan under the succession of states theory.[13]
The position of PRC is that the ROC and PRC are two different factions in the Chinese Civil War, which never legally ended. Therefore the PRC claims that both factions belong to the same sovereign country—China.
Regardless, Taiwan - China relations have nothing to do with Covid -19 naming. Continuously bringing this up to obfuscate the appalling lack of leadership by trump is the right wing playbook.
The procedures to follow are already set for respiratory illnesses; I don’t think a particular team that would spend most of its time sitting on its ass would add much. YMMV.
The “hoax” to which the President refers is the Democrats claiming his administration is not doing a good job containing the virus.
Dana Milbank was probably the first to lie with this tweet: “Remember this moment: Trump, in South Carolina, just called the coronavirus a ‘hoax.’”
I also remember the screeching when the travel ban from China was announced. That was, what, the end of January?
Actually even there, it is clear that Trump did lie about doing a good job. It was a Trump lie to claim that the Democrats reporting the bad job Trump was doing was a hoax. Read the many cites already made in this thread.
This (in the context of Trump “doing a good job”) was also debunked in post #272
Magiver, in case you missed it, today Ohio has 1,653 cases (+516 cases since yesterday) and 29 deaths. I take no pleasure in pointing out it is growing fast in your neck of the woods.
Do you think that when trump slammed on the travel ban, it might have been a good time to have testing available for anyone in Ohio that wanted it? And a system in place in Ohio for contact tracing? Or was it a best practice to put off getting testing in place in Ohio until a 2-3 weeks ago?
sps49sd, trump made one arguably good move by cutting direct travel from China. At that time, there were no processes in place to actually trace and follow up the people that came in from China. My wife came in 2 days after the US airlines shut down flights, so routed thru Korea and SFO to Seattle. Besides filling out at form on entry to the US, and receiving a “things to know” card from the CDC, that was it. The travel ban didn’t cover Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, etc. Christ, my old company, which is right in the thick of it with dozens of factories in China including Wuhan, implemented temperature checks for all employees going in and out of the factories before chinese new year and the wuhan lockdown. They also made it mandatory for US based employees if traveling from any Asian country or contact with anyone that had traveled from an Asian countries needed to self quarantine in a hotel or at home. This was at the end of January or about 2 months before Ohio went to a mandatory lock down.
Maybe, just maybe, if Ohio had been as serious as my company, and if trump had gone full war time president to get testing implemented across the nation by early Feb, then we might not have had to shut down the entire economy to shelter in place. This is not a “good job” or a track record to “rate myself a 10.”
Whether Trump is doing a good job, bad job, or needs improvement is an opinion that can be shaded by points of view, but claiming Trump said the coronavirus concern is a hoax- a claim I was responding to- is false, as shown by the included cite.
Post 272 debunked jack shit. Trump said ‘Europe’, Forbes says ‘Italy’. Not equivalent.
I may be short of nationwide specifics, but SF has a Chinese- American plurality population, many employers and employees here are Chinese- American, and everyone I know returning from the PRC (the Mainland, if it makes anyone happier) spent time quarantined before returning to work. I can ask for details, but okay, “Travel Ban” is shorthand for “not flying back to SFO and Uber-ing home”.
I’m definitely not rating Trump 10/ 10 or a perfect 5/ 7 or anything, but he did decently well while enduring an impeachment everyone involved knew would go nowhere. I also doubt that HRC would have done better overall, and probably worse (I see no way that this country would have had tests available across the country, for one).
Good thing I did not said that, and my point stands since you did not counter what I cited about Trump doing a bad job. Trump did a bad job and continues to do a bad job.
However, even Forbes did not believe that Trump was referring to just the Democratic accusations of not doing a good job.
Last time I checked, Italy is part of the European Union. (The point of the article was also to report that by then it was too late for the USA, just like for Italy so any self praise from Trump is even less impressive). While it is true that other EU members delayed a response, they followed suit, but their point that it was not going to stop the arrival of the disease in the USA was a valid one, because it is more likely that it came from the reality that Trump did not impose a ban but it was a limited restriction from Chinese travelers.
You missed the memo, the latest from the administration is that Trump did not do well because of the impeachment, I will have to thank them for reminding all that they are acknowledging that Trump is not capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time.
That is simply incorrect about the “travel ban”. When the travel ban started, CDC guidance was in a nutshell to avoid going out and avoid crowds. It was not a hard quarantine. Local health departments were supposed to follow up and check in.
Got a cite or better yet a reliable TV spot from trump announcing the travel ban and clearly that all travelers arriving from China must hard quarantine at home for 2 weeks? Didn’t think so.
Here’s a report on the first evacuees: Nearly 200 Americans evacuated from Wuhan, the epicenter of the deadly coronavirus outbreak, landed in Southern California Wednesday. They are staying at an air reserve base near Los Angeles *voluntarily *for up to 14 days to be checked out.
Patient zero was discovered on 19 Jan, testing confirmed 20 Jan, trump travel ban went into effect on 27 Jan.
My wife flew Shanghai, Seoul, SF and then seattle since direct flights were shut down on Feb 2. No temperature check in the US. Filled out a form. No follow up from local health department.
The large high tech companies that I have personal knowledge of were haphazard. Some managers insisted that people work from home for two weeks, others didn’t care. I had a meeting at Microsoft on 14 Feb with someone who had returned from China about 10 days previously. She was a little bit worried because she was at SEATAC the same day as patient zero.
Keep working that playbook that trump was all over this stuff from the get go. Wuhan has even reopened shopping malls.
I hate Trump as much as anyone, but very VERY often the left-wing media puts words in his mouth that he did not say.
(Obviously the right-wing liars do this to the Ds in spades. But we want to be better than them, don’t we?)
Did Trump ever suggest that the virus epidemic was a “hoax”? If he did, show a real cite. If he didn’t, retract the claim.
“It’s OK if we say Trump called the virus a hoax because he called something else a hoax and we need simple claims for simple minds.”
:rolleyes: If this will work in the general election, Go for it! But we don’t need this at SDMB! 
The thing is, the answer is somewhat up for grabs because Trump was just rapid firing nonsense at his rally.
He largely handwaves the threat of the virus, then says there was an impeachment hoax, then says he’s doing a great job and that “this” is another Democrat hoax.
I think it’s open to interpretation. It’s better we move on to the actual issues than try to dissect Trump’s words.
There’s no doubt Trump has been dismissive of the threat of the virus, let’s leave it at that.
I didn’t state that.
HHS Secretary Azar made the announcement, and Trump issued the “Proclamation on Suspension of Entry as Immigrants and Nonimmigrants of Persons who Pose a Risk of Transmitting 2019 Novel Coronavirus” on January 31, 2020. If you want to type everything in quotes when everyone else is being imprecise with “travel ban”, go ahead.
Don’t tell me what bullshit the official Party news services are saying.
I live in China. In my city (Shanghai) basically everything is open again, with the exception of schools. Restaurants, malls, gyms, museums, factories…apart from the face masks it looks like business as usual.
I understand that for some people, the only thing they know about China is “the Chinese government lies”. Which is true; the Chinese government has, and still does, lie.
They may well be lying about the total number of people that died due to this.
But pretending large numbers of people with corona don’t have it is beyond even their powers. Plus it doesn’t even make sense; if community spread is still happening, why reopen the malls and wilfully make the problem much worse? What’s the point?
The point is the economy. You should know this. Saying it’s not happening is one thing, but sitting there saying that there is no point for your government to do this is just dishonest. Of COURSE there is a point. Even the CCP wouldn’t do something as dangerous as putting people back to work if it weren’t desperate. You know this too, as you know that the CCPs unwritten contract with the Chinese people is that it gives them prosperity in return for complete control. Right now, they are definitely not looking good on that. Even using official CCP numbers for the economy it’s bad. Extrapolating the real numbers, it’s a fucking disaster, on top of everything else that’s happened in the last year or so. So, they are taking a calculated risk, and, frankly, are covering up their numbers…just like they do with everything else, including the economic figures already mentioned.
You know this. I know this. The only one’s who don’t are those who really are ignorant of what happens in China, and they are mainly on your side because they are slurping up the CCP propaganda with both hands.
It wouldn’t be good for the economy though, would it? The population all getting sick again wouldn’t help. It doesn’t make sense to open a mall today only to have to close factories for months.
If we’re allowed to suggest reasons that don’t make sense, then OK: they’re reopening the malls so we’ll know what dark matter is.
It’s exactly the opposite way round. I am living in China. I’m telling you what I’m seeing in a city of 24 million people. It’s direct evidence of what’s happening overall.
You are the one who is wedded to a particular concept of “China lies, therefore this must be a lie too”.
Are you asking me as me, or asking me as speculating what the CCP might think about this, considering there are other things involved from their perspective than just public health?
From my perspective, no…it wouldn’t be good in the long run. That said, the only way, right now, to really protect your population is through herd immunity. That means you need to have between 60-80% of your population infected or vaccinated. As far as I know, a tested and proven vaccine is something like 12 months out, though if you were willing to skip some steps and push something through faster you could. China could and perhaps plans too do that. Or, they are looking at the numbers. 80% of those infected get a mild version. Of the 20% that don’t, only around 3-5% die, the rest just need elevated levels of treatment. It’s all about the curve, they might be thinking…if you can get the curve to stretch out, then you can put people back to work and not have your economy completely tank, and maybe hold onto power. Personally, I think what they are doing is playing a dangerous game. Our idiot president seems to be leaning towards this as well, so it’s not just the CCP here. It’s a balancing act…if people stay home your economy tanks. But you flatten and stretch out the curve. If they go back to work, well, the economy picks up, but you put your population at risk. The CCP might feel they can basically pick people out who are sick and force quarantine them while still having people working and making money. It’s a gamble.
Sure you are. But my son’s partners family ALSO lives in China…and not in as nice a city as the one you live in. And they say something totally different, when they can say anything at all. Western journalists have been sent packing from China, and many of the bloggers I followed in China have gone quiet. Several have been put in forced quarantine…for their own good of course. So…I think there is more to this than crazy XT ranting about the good CCP and your anecdotes. I think your anecdotes are valid, but like all anecdotes, they only tell part of the story. And though obviously you have access to information outside of China, seeing as how you are posting on this board, you are also subject to your own state run media. The big lie and all that.