Random Mafia

Says you. I have, in fact, countered this by saying that it will force a person to defend their position before being attacked. So they won’t know the thinking f the accuser before defending it.

Is it a guilty until proven innocent approach? Yes. Is that appropriate for this stage of the game? perhaps

sez you. Why is it a waste of time? You’re making a case against someone the other 4 people don’t know is Town.

As I tried to point out earlier. I think it will cause true positives as well as omissions which could be useful.

Maybe it is desperation, but we are likely at lynch or lose. And I think it won’t keep people occupied as much as it will force their participation at this point.

again, sez you.

**Not sure how useful this will be

**Day One

**peekercpa **(4): Mahaloth 482
**KellyCriterion ** (3): Tom Scud 571
**Chronos ** (3): [COLOR=Black]MHaye [/COLOR]591
Drain Bead (2): Zeriel 560, special ed 565
TexCat (1): Red Skeezix 316, [del]Tom Scud 328 571[/del],
Oredigger77 (1): Drain Bead 347
**Red Skeezix **(1): TexCat 356, [del]Freudian Slit 364 478[/del]
**Zeriel **(1): [del]storyteller0910 564 567[/del], One And Only Wanderers 570
**Rysto **(1):
Freudian Slit (1):
**NAF1138 **(0):
**storyteller0910 **(0):
One And Only Wanderers (0):
**Mahaloth **(0): [del]Meeko 291 298[/del]
Not Voting (2) : Oredigger77

Day Two

One And Only Wanderers (8): Oredigger77 760, Mahaloth 815, Drain Bead 865, Zeriel 874,
Freudian Slit (8): Tom Scud 783, Red Skeezix 835, special ed 861, OAOW 871, MHaye 885
**Mahaloth **(1): storyteller0910 833
Jimmy Chitwood (0): [del]Oredigger 717 734[/del],
Drain Bead (0): [del]Zeriel 715 874[/del]
**GuiriEnEspaña **(0):
**TexCat **(0): [del]Tom Scud 706 783[/del]
Tom Scud (0): [del]Mahaloth 787 815[/del]
**Meeko **(0):

Day Three

**Chronos **(7): [del]special ed 924 995[/del], Red Skeezix 974, Drain Bead 984, Oredigger77 990, Tom Scud 1002,
**Tom Scud **(4): Mahaloth 931, Zeriel 954, Chronos 971, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies 986, [del]Jimmy Chitwood 1004 1013[/del]
**Oredigger77 **(2): special ed 995, MHaye 1015
Jimmy Chitwood (1):
**TexCat **(1): [del]Tom Scud 969 1002[/del],

Day Four

**Oredigger77 **(10): GuiriEnEspaña 1032, TexCat 1035, special ed 1037, Drain Bead 1039, Tom Scud 1047, MHaye 1116, Rysto 1127, Mahaloth 1135, Red Skeezix 1136, Zeriel 1164
**Rysto **(2): Oredigger77 1137,
Tom Scud (1): [del]Mahaloth 1031 1133[/del],
**ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies **(0):
**TexCat **(0):

Day Five(before Tom’s claim)

Drain (2): Special Ed 1225, Meeko 1256
Tom (3): Drain 1227, Mahaloth 1232, Red 1268
Red (1): Guiri 1246
Meeko (1): Tom 1264

Day 5 (after Tom’s claim)

Tom Scud (8): Drain Bead [del]1227 1281[/del] 1287, Mahaloth 1232, Red Skeezix 1268, Meeko 1289, special ed 1292, Rysto 1293, Cookies 1294, GuiriEnEspaña 1299
**Meeko **(1): Tom Scud (1264)
Drain Bead (0): [del]special ed 1225 1292[/del],
Red Skeezix (0): [del]GuiriEnEspaña 1246 1299[/del]

Day 6

Meeko (5) - special ed 1322, Drain Bead 1326, Red Skeezix 1352, Rysto 1365, Mahaloth 1369
Drain Bead (1) - Meeko 1327
**Mahaloth (1) **- Cookies 1356
Now I remember why I thought MHaye wasn’t the unidentified Scum, it was his vote for Oredigger with me on Day 3. Though, looking at it now, Seriel was voting for Tom. I don’t feel as confident in my assessment anymore.

in any case, the vote was strong on Chronos at that point, so a Scum vote could have gone anywhere. It does nothing to clear me either.

on Day 4, Drain and I had voted for Oredigger before Rysto’s counter claim Mahaloth and Red voted after.

NETA, in case anyone was wondering what that was…it was the voting record with the confirmed Town removed. So basically it was the vote of us 4 unconformed, the Green people, and the Scum.

I also left in votes for the Scum

Yes, I will either back my vote up or remove it. Feel free to ignore it until then.

This sort of language bothers me. You are implying that I fear slips, which is something that I did not say. What I actually said was I fear a high rate of false-positives.

I don’t have much problem with a guilty until proven innocent approach. Especially since at this point, excluding Cookies, I don’t have any player who I think is definitely town, just varying shades of scumminess.

I could spend the time looking over the people who actually have a shot of being scum as opposed to someone I know isn’t?

Ok, the rate of false positives is as much speculation as you’re belief that it will produce meaningful results.

So far this point (about maintaining participation) and the the mere possiblity of legitimate slips are the only things this idea has going for it. One of the reasons I am extremely skeptical of you and you’re ideas is that earlier this game we rushed into a name claim that could have been potentially devastating, and presumably forced town players to lie which could have been trouble had any of the other power roles who lied about their names. I think it was a rash move on our part, and it was pushed on hard by you jumping straight in.

There are four players who are unconfirmed right now, If we are at lynch or lose, that means that two of those players are scum. That means I have a 66% chance of just guessing right (in the worse case).

I am skeptical of how well this will work, but a part of me wants to try it out just to see if this would be an effective technique for later games. Most of my criticisms are based on what I think will happen, but I’ve never seen this tried so I really don’t know if the criticisms are valid or not.

Also the game where you almost bamboozled me was SSBM:2. I was unsure about you, but your claim and your criticisms of my plan were selling me on the idea of altering the plan to focus on dirx or mentalguy rather than you.

NETA: The worse case I was referring two is if I just randomly picked one of the other three.

A much more valuable exercise, and one that I can participate in as well, is for everyone to pick the unconfirmed players other than themselves and then make the best case possible against each as scum.

That is definitely what I think we should do instead of Ed’s idea.

An angle I’m going to be looking at particularly are the interactions with Meeko. It is a bit metagame for my tastes, but I think it is fair considering how the scum have obviously used Meeko against his own faction in this game. For example, Drain has a consistent tone when it comes to Meeko. She is consistently hard on him when they’re both town. Ed, on the other hand, I have seen come around to give Meeko the benefit of the doubt, but he didn’t this time. I don’t have anecdotal intel on Red or Mahaloth’s interactions with Meeko, but based on that little exercise in my own head, Drain would get a mark in the null-tell category while Ed’s mark would be potentially scummier.

I also would have rather Ed had proposed the idea that I describe as opposed to a) relegating me as the only confirmed-town player to only an observer/jury vs an active participant and b) suggesting something that is the opposite of how the game is usually played, and that wastes the time of at least 2 if not 3 of the unconfirmed players.

In fact, that is enough at this point to move my placeholder.

Unvote Red
Vote Ed

So I slept on ed’s idea, and I’m not in favor of it. I have a finite amount of time, and going through the game making a case against someone I know to be Town when we’re likely at LyLo is not a good use of it. Not to mention that those of us who are Town are then handing cases against us to the Scum–the one who does the best job can get piled on! I think Cookies has it right here–we should be focusing on the unconfirmed that aren’t us. Leave the specious cases up to the Scum to make. That’s how we find out who is Scum. When some of us are making specious cases as Town, it just gives the Scum more places to hide.

In fact, I’m starting to think that Scum exposed themselves by agreeing with this idea, and I’m perfectly happy going with my initial instinct (and along with our only confirmed Town) by…

vote ed

well, if this is how the day is going to go, then good game, guys.

Summary of the entire game up until now with the main focus on the unconfirmed players with minor focus in the green players and the dead Scum.

Day 1
Day 1 started with some discussion of Meeko and his style of play. Encouraging comments were made by Zeriel, Alka Seltzer.
Rysto suggests a name claim.
Zeriel doesn’t want a name claim.
NAF supports a name claim.
Oredigger doesn’t oppose a name claim, but does think name claims will lock a player into a role (This implies that he knew name was related to power)
Freudian thinks we should look at people who are cagey about a name claim.
Chronos claims non-fictional, hasn’t reached an opinion on name claiming.
Tom Scud is unsure about a name claim.
NAF states that if a name claim is meaningless, we should do it and get it over with.
Oredigger feels that name claims might give away power, but supports it anyway
Tom Scud supports a name claim
Peeker claims that his name has nothing to do with his power and it might just mucky up the water.
Freudian supports a name claim, says she has no profession but a race.
Oredigger says he has a description, not a profession.
Naf claims a religion and not a profession. Suggests that Scum don’t fish, Town does.
Special Ed disagrees with NAF, stating that Scum do sometimes fish. Ed supports a name claim.
**Drain **questions how we will set up the order.
Meeko claim Surreal Artist
Rysto suggest a random list to set the order
Oredigger suggests we use sachs original list
**Ed **just goes ahead and claims Guy de Maupassant (Writer)
Meeko agrees with Tom Scud and opposes a name claim (oddly, Tom Scud had supported name claiming)
**Mahaloth **supports name claiming
Zeriel votes for peeker for his vote on story
peeker posts the infamous wicked witch video
Freudian claims Patroclus (Greek)
Tom Scud claims Busby Berkeley (Choreographer)
Oredigger claims George Washington (President)
Naf claims Joesph Smith (Mormon)
Red Skeezix claims Ogden Nash (Poet)
TexCat claims Benedict Arnold (Traitor)
Chronos claims Jesse Jackson (Reverend)
**Mahaloth **claims Samuel Johnson (Critic)
**Drain **claims Eva Peron (Spiritual Leader of the Nation of Argentina)
Meeko claims Joan Miró (Aritst)
Meeko and Chronos discuss if the order of claiming might reveal information.
peeker says something difficult to understand, but it includes 'wicked witch of the west.
Wanderers votes for NAF for the typo and claims Fu Mingxia (Olympic Gold Medalist)
Chronos jumps on the typo as well and votes NAF
Wanderers questions why Chronos claim doesn’t appear to be a quote.
GuiriEnEspaña claims Gustave Eiffel (Architect)
Jimmy votes for Wanderers.
MHaye posts
The quoting/typo debate continues.
MHaye claims Tim Horton (Canadian)
Zeriel claims Lysander (Lover)
The Fictional debate ensues.
Jimmy claims Alexander Graham Bell (Inventor)
Rysto claims Petr Cech (Goalkeeper)
The debate on peeker’s claim ensues.
Chronos gets on peeker for his odd way of claiming (the video) and Freduian wonders why later, peeker said “I chose” wicked witch
TexCat points out Meeko’s typo
Meeko votes for Wanderer because Meeko too has a typo.
Freudian asks for peekr’s role and takes some heat for it (from **Ed **and Meeko)
Zeriel questions people voting for Wanderers for pointing out typos.
KellyCriterion claims Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (Composer)
KellyCriterion appears to be catching up and votes NAF for the typo
KellyCriterion unvotes NAF
Meeko questions why we gave up secret information to the Scum
stroyteller claims Baldrick (Servant) to finish the list
**Ed **questions Meeko on how he knows the Scum would know each other’s roles. It wasn’t in the rules. Also, **Ed **questions how Meeko ‘knows’ NAF is a power role
story is questioned on why he thinks name claiming was a bad move. **Ed **supports it as we got it out of the way as it seemed meaningless (and it really did to me, though it appears the names weren’t as random as random implied)
Well, I’m through post 256 and this is taking quite some time…

My observation at this point is that I look the Scummiest because I keep poking at people who turned out to be Town (NAF, peeker, and Meeko) of course, only Chronos and Wanderers seem to be contributing too much poking and prodding at this point. Though Freudian is a bit.

So, I’ll give this a rest, if you guys are bound and determined to lynch me, I can only hope that Zeriel and MHaye were both Scum.

I don’t suppose there’s anyone left who played in AlphaCentauri on GB, is there? It’s feeling mighty similar to that.

I was unaware that Cookies wore such an extravagant coat that would allow you to ride those coattails around without falling off.

I haven’t finished my digesting yet, but here’s my summary thoughts so far.

Mahaloth: He’s had a few posts that just are just egregious filler. He’s committed the sin of admitting that he has no reads and no leads. I’m not sure if that is a scum tell, or an apathy tell, I think it is more likely the former. I’m having a hard time buying the apathetic town routine, when earlier he was being a cheerleader for more participation. He jumped at Special Ed’s plan with gusto and gravy. This to me is scummy whether Ed is or isn’t scum. To me it looks like he’s either trying to build support for what I consider a bad idea, or he’s trying to beat the rush to a plan that might have been enacted (aka Credit through early adoption). Story voted mahaloth on day 2 for a case that I was having a hard time understanding, was this a possible bread crumb?

Drain: There is rysto’s vote analysis. Two different scenarios where drain fits neatly neatly into a scum voting position. (Chronos vote protecting Tom and voting oredigger before the counterclaim). She’s been yoked to Tom Scud in more than a couple of places. 1. Marginalizing Meeko’s posts. Both her and tom commented on how they were not interested in what he had to say. This could be read as provocation, i’m not entirely sold on this idea. 2. Tom said he understood based on what was said in the overnight thread. Was this a legit slip by Tom? I didn’t read it as such originally, but now I’m not so sure. 3. Her confusion about why Tom was getting less attention than she expected. Finally, she was pushing pretty hard for meeko’s lynch yesterday. Now she looks to be coattailing Cookies. I’m all for solidarity at the end of the day when it might be lylo, but not before brunch.

Special Ed: The scumminess that I detect from him is his willingness to push off anyone who doesn’t agree with him. If he’s scum, it feels like he’s worked hard this game to build up a pro-town reputation, and he’s using it to lean hard on anyone who disagrees with him. If we are in the final stretch, it fits for him to push hard against anyone who might draw his actions/opinions into question. Yesterday he was gung-ho about the Meeko lynch, and in turn said I was scummy for daring to look more closely at the holes in the case, that I was defending Meeko. The most scummy thing he’s done in my opinion so far is to introduce the white elephant into the proceedings. I will say that I am not thrilled by the fact that expected us at this stage of the game to not ruminate on it. And that he believes that honest examination opposed to blind compliance is “Interesting”.

One of the big things about ed that bothers me is his sudden switch to thinking I was Town, without really supporting it. Saying I’m playing like Town is all well and good, but what does it mean, really? What evidence can he point to that supports his assertion? I was riding his ass pretty hard for a couple of Days–I think what he did served the limited purpose of getting me to back off of him in late game, when his loss would be more harmful to his team. It’s classic snuggling, and I’m pissed at myself for falling for it.

Do you remember my case against you?

It was based largely on:

1.one off voting Oredigger on Day 1
2. Making a stink with opposing the Peeker on Day 1
3. Your reaction to the fact that I didn’t accuse you of anything as I went through a list of people getting votes on Day 3
4. Your attack on Oredigger when he voted for Chronos (and my mistaken conclusion that you neglected to mention you were voting for Chronos as well)

So, the case was based on assuming you were Scum defending peeker who you would have known was Town, one off voting Oredigger and maintaining a sustained attack on him (as I’ve seen you do to fellow Scum)

Since then, I’ve seen more reasons to suspect others (like Meeko for his vote for Rysto) than I have for you.

Are you cleared in my mind, not at all. But I’ve realized the case I made against you hasn’t grown any stronger while the others are more difficult to get a read on since their participation is more limited.

On another board, I’ve started taking a different approach. I was much less participatory. It got my NK’d on Night 3, which is OK as I was Vanilla, I’ve been hesitant to use such a strategy on this board, since I think this board suffers from limited participation from too many players. As of now, I have 200 posts in this thread. that’s 14% of the participation. Also, think of all the posts my comments have caused. Take that away and I think we’d have much less information out there. I think it makes me too easy of a target in late game.

As to Red’s comments on SSB2, I did manage to get attention turned onto a 3rd party Dirx to earn myself 1 extra Day, but the Scum were completely wiped out in that game. and we were so completely destroyed that I surrendered after Day 4.

and, you know what? In Alpha Centauri, I stood and screamed and begged and demanded that people go back and checked the history of the game.

And the Scum managed to convince 1 Town I was Scum because of my attitude.

And I just don’t have the engery to do that.

So forget it. You can go back and look at the history of this game or you can just trust your memory on a game that started more than 6 weeks ago, sobeit.

I apologize for the frustration getting to me, I’ll just wait for the next game.

Wow, I don’t usually get that pissy. It was a bad day, I guess. My apologies to everyone. It’s just frustrating to know we’re this close to winning and people might not be willing to do the work to win it. And maybe I just assumed you wouldn’t do the work…I shouldn’t have felt that way, since it’s possible that it can be done.

And it’s Sunday, so no one is checking in.

OK, but here’s the deal. I’m not going to go do all the work toDay. I’m tried of that, and I doubt anyone will trust me. You’ll probably find a mistake I made and decide that makes me Scum anyway, and with 1500 posts to go through, I’m sure I’ll make mistakes.

You guys do the work. If you want to lynch me, let me know. I’ll even edit a post so I can get removed and we can end the game early, if you wish. If you want to lynch someone else, then it’s up to the 2 of you who are Town to make the case.

Other than that, if town is going to lynch me on Day 7 for coming up with an idea you don’t like, then we don’t deserve the win.

I’ll check back at some point.

Monday morning vote count:
special ed (2) Voted by: Cookies 1427, Drain Bead 1428

Red Skeezix (0) Voted by: [del]Cookies 1411 1427[/del]

Wow. I have no idea what to do and this is getting sticky. I see everyone’s points about Ed trying to get us to review our histories and provide cases against ourselves. It does seem to provide a way for others to point to cases we make on ourselves and place votes easily. On the other hand, I didn’t really dislike the idea, as at least it gets people talking about their trends in the game.

I’ve read ed as town through toDay, and I hardly think that one idea is so scummy that it makes him the easy lynch. I mean, I suppose people think that he and the other scum(assuming there is another one) discussed this strategy at Night and agreed for ed to introduce it right away in the new Day?

I’m not ready to vote yet. Ed, please don’t get yourself modkilled to end the game. Let us think about what we are doing.

Hopefully after sleeping for the past 20 or so hours, I’ve re-tooled my internal clock so that it is sort of like morning now (1:45pm), and I will begin my re-reading.

I also have something to say to Ed as to the effort in playing the game. Trying being a sub. This will be the second time I’m trying to crawl through 17 pages that have shit to do with me, but it is still better than your idea. You are coming across as cranky and defensive to me.

So then vote for me for being cranky and defensive. It’s as effective as voting for the most recent thing to happen.

And I know I sound cranky. I’ve apologized for that. I cannot encourage anyone any more that they go back and re-read and form their own conclusions.

Just because I’m willing to spend a significant amount of time and comb through the past means I expect it of everyone else, and that’s not fair of me. I shouldn’t do that. Different people approach the game differently.

I know I’ve said it, but it’s very reminiscent of a game I already played. A game in which with 5 players left, 1 Town player and 2 Scum got me lynched because I was vocal and prodding and aggressive, and they didn’t like it. So I’m not going to invest my energy into the game at this point. It’s up to the 4 of you to reach your conclusions how you will and vote how you will.

I’m going to do the same and

vote Red Skeezix

because he continues to find no one suspicious, and that to me is suspicious. It’s possible that I might do some research and change my mind.

I’m still stunned, honestly, that Meeko wasn’t Scum. I’m not sure how he came to the conclusion to vote for Rysto over Oredigger. Obviously, even the Scum saw it as the obvious vote.

@ Red, I was only willing to have the modkill happen to end the game if we’re bound and determined to lynch me instead of awaiting until Thursday. I’m sorry if that wasn’t clear.

That still sounded more pissy than I intended.

Let me try it this way.

  1. I am going to try to be less pushy.
  2. I will try to post less, prod less, poke less.

We’ll see if that works.