Just a couple of points. Yes, I poked at Peeker and at Meeko. Yes I voted niehter of them. yes, I voted for Drain shortly after she did what I saw as the most suspicious thing of the day.
Additionally, your comment that “Scum point out PIS more than Town do” has been breought up in previous games and is not widely accepted as True. It is also akin to saying “Scum point out scummy behavior more than Town do.” I don’t think I need to point out how ridiculous that argument is.
I think, if you look at the information Meeko was claiming to be true, you’ll see that there’s no reasonable way for him to know what he felt to be true without PIS, my statement makes much sense. Also, you’ll notice that I didn’t vote for Meeko at that point (as far as I recall) because I felt it was possible that meeko was just thinking he knew more than he could possibly know by making assumption on things he assumed rather than things he knew.
The big thing that jumps out at me upon re-read is something I starred–ed says that nothing I’ve done has pinged him…yet. Keep in mind that he ended the Day before with a vote on me! Now, Day Two was probably my worst Day of this game in terms of participation and motivation–I forgot who I was voting for on Day One too, and admitted as much in the thread. But you don’t see me on Day Two saying that nothing Oredigger had done so far had pinged me, either. ed, OTOH, goes out of his way to say that I had yet to ping him and that he found nothing out of the ordinary about me. Very strange comments to be made about someone you voted for the Day before! I really wish I would have caught this earlier.
Ed looks good here. Ends the Day with a vote on Scum, and unvotes Town to do it, in a close race between Town and Scum. I see no major logical inconsistencies toDay, unlike in previous Days.
The one thing I want to point out is that he started his train of thought on me by reminding himself of the time I got upset that he didn’t find me suspicious. If you go back and read the thread, that’s not what I was pointing out at all. I was pointing out that he listed a bunch of people who had gotten votes, and said a few things about each of them…but the thing he said about me was not about me at all. It was about Tom Scud mentioning the “overnight thread.” Now, at this point in the game, I didn’t get too upset about ed repeatedly mischaracterizing what bothered me about that moment. But once Tom turned up Scum, it seems to me like ed was trying to link me to him.
He also said that my pointing out his interactions with Meeko was something Scum would do, but never said why he thought that. I’m kinda curious as to what the Scum motivation there would be. Without using post-hoc reasoning based on the fact that we now know Meeko was Town, can you explain why you thought that my bringing that up back then was scummy? I can see you thinking that if you thought I was trying to point out that you were ganging up on Town, but you thought Meeko was scummy then. So why would it be Scummy for me to point out that you were ganging up on someone who you thought was Scum?
I post so much that of course there are going to be inconsistencies. Sure, I voted for you on day 1 with a weak case. Then I made comments on the cases of Day 2, and I commented on what I saw as the case against you on that Day, and didn’t see much. There was much more going on that was noteworthy. Meeko’s handwaving, Mahaloth’s non-particpation while posting,
All the discussion on day 2 in regards to you centered around Tom’s comment. I didn’t think too much of it.
As for the comment that I didn’t like your vote on OAOW (near the end of Day 2), that did slightly miss the point. The point was that I didn’t like the FOS/Smudge you gave me for forcing a tie which in this game isn’t really a tie since there’s an obvious built in tie-breaker.
Plus, you’ve pointed out that I can’t count. I’m ashamed. :smack:
1 odd thing I find interesting. You say now that you wish that you had discovered my vote for you and later non-ping earlier. I must say, I would venture that if you were Scum, you probably would have remembered that I had voted for you. But you’re right, you didn’t comment on it at all back then, did you?
From your agitation, I assumed you were upset that there was no comment about you. I’m surprised that you now say you weren’t upset. You kept bringing it up even after I apologized for not being pinged by you.
In the post you link, I don’t say it’s something Scum would do. I just indicate that it’s interesting. However, often the 2 are synonymous. In fact, in every case except when they aren’t (see my most recent post before this one). The Scum motivation would be to distract the Town and focus on the interaction between Meeko and myself. Granted at that point I was suspicious of Meeko (that was clear) but I wasn’t 100% sure. Also, I wouldn’t put it past a Scum to point it out since Meeko and I have a hsitory of arguing even when we are both Scum.
After five Days, one major pattern I’m noticing is that ed rarely interacted with Tom. About the only mentions of Tom he had, through five Days and two close races is when he brought up the “overnight thread” kerfluffle in conjunction with me, and when he asked other people about the cases against him. He never really brought him up himself, and didn’t vote him on his last Day until after he flamed out. Nothing solid, just a data point.
And on that note, I’ve spent my whole damned afternoon getting no work done, and I have to go home now. I only have a few pages left to go in the thread, so I’ll get it finished tonight.
Well, that’s not really what I was saying. What I was saying is that at the time, I wasn’t too bothered by the actual linkage between me and Tom, but after he was revealed as Scum, it became a lot more bothersome.
I was a bit bothered that you were commenting on the cases against each player, but the thing you mentioned about me was really about Tom. It wasn’t that you weren’t making a case against me, it was that you were linking something that had nothing to do with me to me. Which wasn’t incredibly awful at the time, but became worse when I found out he was Scum. Does that explain it better?
I wasn’t too concerned about the ‘overnight’ thread comment. In hindsight, I may have been wrong, since Tom flipped Scum. Of course, that’s not a point in your favor since Tom was talking about your post in the overnight thread :dubious:
In voting for you, Zeriel was replying to Tom. All that kerfluffle about the overnight thread was not a data point I was going to use at the time.
That was my comment when I got to your name in my copy/pasted list of people who had votes.
I’m not sure how I can make that more clear. That post was just a summary of my thoughts. Potentially useful for someone else, but more designed to give me something to go back to and find my thoughts at the time. At that time, I wasn’t too concerned about you.
Your defensiveness to my stand along with a few other things got me to change my mind.
I’ve changed my mind a lot in this game. I’ve even been wrong. Frequently.
I’m really not sure why it’s such a big deal to you that I didn’t have anything to really say about you on Day 2. I’m not sure how much better I can explain that.
The last line? IN Conspiracy 3, Meeko and I argued extensively on Day 1. For me, it was an attempt to build some credibility for one of us if the other died.
In the end, it got us both killed and, I fear, made Meeko think I’m sadistic and hateful.
So, the last line means, Even had Meeko flipped Scum, I wouldn’t have expected my arguing with him to have bought me any credibility, and, in fact, I might have expceted Scum to point that out.
It’s all meaningless though since he didn’t flip Scum.
So, basically, it means this:
Even if Meeko were Scum, as I suspected, I wouldn’t put it past another Scum to point out my arguing with him in either a) an attempt to get me lynched instead or b) remind others of Conspiracy and point a finger at me after Meeko flipped.
Really, I’m arguing hypotheticals here since you asked what the ptoential Scum motivation could have been. I thought it was obvious that others in the past have used the “look at those people argue…” to distract Town from meaningful activities.
Though, I’ve also seen it used by Town to get distractive people to shut up. (But you didn’t ask me what the Town motivations might have been)
I can’t really hold the Meeko case against ed. Damn near everyone, except Cookies (who is evidently psychic!) thought that Meeko was Scum. I know I was damned certain of it–and had Cookies not been confirmed Town, I would have really wondered about the one-off. Ed’s case against Meeko was good, except Meeko does some crazy shit, and this game was no exception.
Thanks for explaining that–I didn’t know the history.
As for the first part, I’m not sure what else I can say to get you to understand that my issue wasn’t the fact that you weren’t making a case against me, so I’ll just let everyone else figure out if that whole thing means anything to them.
This almost seems easy since I only have 8 pages to go through
Mahaloth Pre-Day 1 (5 posts)
Post 18 Is in Post 24 ask if the game is Gasterd Post 25 Notes that it’s newbie friendly Post 31 Who cares, the roles aren’t even out yet? Post 62 we have 20 players!
Day 1 (24 posts)
Post 134 Confirming Post 148 is OK with name claiming can use a random list or sachertorte’s list Post 162 claims Samuel Johnson (Critic) Post 194 lists claims so far Post 197 updates list post 224 asks if peeker has claimed or not post 229 encourages peeker to claim post 256 well, the claim is mostly over Post 260 comment on his earlier list post 275 notes TexCat’s list, asks if everyone has claimed post 276 questions if peeker has claimed post 285 questions Meeko how he knows that the Scum know the other Scum names (picks up on PIS before Ed did even!) post 294 backs off on his comments towards Meeko since others have stated it’s common practice, but still doesn’t think he deserves a vote post 299 completely retracts his comment towards Meeko post 305 fluff post 319 peeker is being peeker post 336 more peeker is being peekr, don’t poke at him post 348 more comments to stop the comments on his initial questioning of Meeko post 424 long day, will comment later post 428 thinkis people should stop poking peeker and Meeko, isn’t pinged by either but wouldn’t be surprised if Scum are poking them post 482 thinks either Chronos or peeker is Scum, votes peeker after pointing out Chronos’ comment about peeker ‘safe soft claiming’ with the video earlier. (WHAT? He said he wasn’t pinged by him earlier…and now this? And, it sets up a classic Scum move. Either A or B is Scum, let’s lynch A, then we lynch B toMorrow…and you get 2 Town post 500 questions Meeko on the Keely is likely Town thing post 521 ditto post 597 Can we discuss strategy at Night?
Night 1 (4 posts)
post 616 was witch Town? post 635 fluff post 644 comments on a companion document to label Day starts and ends (Red then started one, but didn’t maintain it) post 648 thanks Red
Day 2 (11 posts)
post 669 we should assume both dead are Vanilla Town post 728 asks what Drains slip was. Thinks Tom’s “overnight thread” isn’t a big deal post 732 thanks Rysto for pointing out that Drains issue was FOS’ing “everyone” who voted peeker (for some reason I’ve forgotten) was really an FOS of 1 person post 733 thinks Zeriel has made a good case. Thinks Drains comments are Odd. Still isn’t the least bit suspicious of Tom’s comment. snarks at Ed and Meeko post 738 comments on why what Drain said could be Scum motivated. Is dismayed by the lack of participation post 749 more ranting on the low participation post 753 in response to Ed asking him what he’s contributed aside from a comment on the Drain kerfluffle, he says "Anything I can, specialed. There is little to comment on. Encouraging people to get out here and speak is certainly a good point and worth saying. Certainly better than bantering with Meeko again(still). " post 786 questions Tom for voting for Freduian because Freudian is voting for anti-Town noise. post 787 Votes Tom post 815 unvotes Tom votes Oneandonly because oneandonly pointed out they might be a good lynch
----Mahaloth gets a vote from story for much of the preceding and the defense of Feudian— post 836 defends his vote for oneandonly, takes note of story’s vote
Night 2 (0 posts)
Day 3 (5 posts)
post 909 there must be a Vigilante post 911 comments that his list didn’t have storyteller, when Ed noted that story’s claim didn’t match his reveal post 931 1. good chice, Vig. 2. story voted me, has no idea why. 3. was wrong about oneandonly, therefore Tom must be Scum for his case on Freudian. Votes Tom. post 998 day is ending in 24 hours. still likes vote on Tom, though Oredigger also looks good. Doesn’t get case on Chronos post 1001 notes tie between Tom and Chronos
—an interesting aside. Jimmy was very suspicious of Mahaloth at this point. In fact, so worried that he felt the case against Tom was trumped up, so he put Chronos into the lead----
Night 3 (0 posts)
Day 4 (7 posts)
post 1031Votes Tom post 1042 wants it on the record that he’s voted for Tom for 2 Days (despite moving to oneandonly on Day 2) post 1126 asks Oredigger who he has protected after Oredigger claims Doctor post 1133 unvotes Tom. Still thinks Tom is Scum, but thinks a better vote is Rysto or Oredigger. Hasn’t figured out which but is leaning Oredigger post 1135 votes Oredigger after the obvious is pointed out that Rysto had no Scum motivation to claim but oredigger did. post 1144 not sure what this means. don’t think it’s important post 1179 again reminds everyone that he’s voted for Tom.
Night 4 (5 posts)
post 1200 good for us. wonders why oredigger claimed Doc post 1204 answers that we can discuss strategy at Night post 1207 answers Ed who was wondering why MHaye and Zeriel were removed when they had voted post 1220 Census fluff post 1223 more census fluff
Day 5 (4 posts)
post 1232 votes Tom post 1273 comments that he’s participated only a little because he’s already voted and there isn’t much to comment on. Liked Red’s summary on Tom post 1285 is not Captain Me too. is busy. ins’t talkative. votes early. comments on a question from Guiri regarding understanding story’s vote but ‘not getting it’ post 1303 was right about Tom awhile ago
Night 5 (1 post)
post 1318 comments briefly on the ongoing discussion of Meeko
Day 6 (7 posts)
post 1343 his summary of everyone so far. where he includes our confirmed Town and finds no one but Meeko suspicious. He’ll get heat for this post 1346 oops, shouldn’t have included confirmed Town in his list, especially saying he had little read on them. post 1361 is not apathetic. is playing pro_town. points out yet again his vote for Tom for 3 Days, and then makes a Scum wouldn’t do that kind of busing argument post 1363 r-word fluff post 1366gay fluff post 1369 no read on Red. votes Meeko post 1384 1. Voted for Tom and kept his vote on him for 3 Days (note: except for the 2 times he didn’t keep his vote on him!) 2. Scum spread their arguments out on people, and he hasn’t done that. In fact, he has almost no cases against anyone. (note: except Tom, see preceding)
Night 6 (0 posts)
Day 7 up until now (8 posts)
post 1406 hopes Rysto wasn’t waiting until 1 PM to PM his protection. has no idea who to kill toDay. post 1409 defends himself from ym comments about him reading the Scum thread. makes his case against himself like I’d requested. his case is 1. forgot cookies was confirmed and 2. hasn’t participated much, but (Wait for it…wait for it…) he voted Tom a lot! and he was Right! post 1410 comments on my request for people to make the cases against themselves. post 1412 positive thoughts fluff post 1417 seems to understand my comments about the Scum thread and an early Day start. post 1437has no idea what to do! doesn’t really think Ed is scummy for one bad idea. post 1445 (note, you’ll like this one) has found plenty of people suspicious!! and, the obligatory "and was an early voter to get Tom, who(if you have forgotten) turned out to be scum. " post 1454 isn’t jumpy is accurate (in reply to Red’s comment about 1445)
Day 1 (11 posts) post 159 claims Ogden Nash (poet) post 302 isn’t putting much into the typos post 312 after the peeker claim/not claim debacle, chimes in to tell peeker its better to be clear post 316 votes TexCat because TexCat was suspicious of peeker for leaving out the parenthetical post 385 addresses the votes against him. he clarifies that his vote against TexCat is because texCat is voting for a reason Red can’t see Scum doing. Why would Scum draw attention to themselves? post 395 clarifies again he meant “Doing that does not make one Scum” and not “Scum wouldn’t do that” post 510 was once Scum politician 2 games in a row post 599 moving vote won’t matter. is pinged by drain’s smudge comments on the peeker train. doesn’t support the votes on Chronos post 608 appears to agree with Ed that Kelly seemed to be posting as he caught up post 610 NETA to correct spelling post 612more comments on Kelly and catching up, I think
Night 1 (2 posts) post 636 fluff post 647 the document to keep track of day starts and ends
Day 2 (3 posts) post 727 comments on an interaction in cecil pond. thinks NAF’s case on Kelly was rash, but that doesn’t mean Scum killed him. tried to understand Meeko. question Zeriel as to why he’s voting Drain post 835 trouble posting. is pinged by several, only metions freudian. Freudian is voting on bandwagons for weak reasons. votes Freudian post 851 questons story regarding the case against Mahaloth. asks what opportunistic voting is questions texcat’s assertion that Jimmy was against name claiming
Night 2 (0 posts)
Day 3 (1 post) post 974 1. maybe story was cop, maybe not 2. texcat’s assertion that Freudian may have been Scum even though being blue? ridiculous 3. is pinged that Zeriel is voting Tom based on a coin flip. Thinks Zeriel may fear that staying on Drain too long will make him appear Scummy (kinda reminds me of Mahaloth and Tom) 4. doesn’t but the case against Tom 5. doesn’t like Jimmy’s case on Meeko 6. votes Chronos for a smudge and bluster in regards to his suspicion of guiri. (no, really, go read it)
Night 3 (0 posts)
Day 4 (8 posts) post 1033 questions Rysto’s vote of Cookies. asks Meeko to recap the case on Texcat
post 1036 clarifies himself to guiri in regards to the 'scum wouldn’t do that"/“that doesn’t look scummy” issue. asks how he is a clean noser. post 1040 responds to guiri’s reply. (go check out guiri’s reply in post 1038) clarifies the smudge and bluster and says he’s suspicious of oredigger and texcat (has he commented on oredigger before, I may have missed it) post 1084 discussion of the term fishing post 1091 questions meeko on a couple of odd points in an outlinepost 1092 more comments on fishing post 1095 comments to Meeko regarding why is’t not needed for a 3rd mason to claim post 1136 votes Oredigger after the claim/counterclaim post 1139responds cookies on the assertion that 95% of the time the inital claimant gets lynched in a counter claim situation. basically made up the number as far as I can tell.
Night 4 (0 posts)
Day 5 (3 posts) post 1266 acknowledges the poke for not participating post 1268 1. dismisses Meeko’s case on drain 2. Votes Tom for several reasons post 1269 comments to Drain that it wasn’t 2 of the 4 previous Tom voters repeated, when 1 of them was dead. it was technically 2 of 3.
Night 5 (2 posts) post 1310 comments that scum meeko looks like town meeko, only scum meeko is less likely to engage a scummate post 1317 more comments on Meeko’s gameplay
Day 6 (3 posts) post 1325 more comments on Meeko’s gameplay post 1331 isn’t really defending Meeko, jsut trying to find the case in the comments. Thinks Meeko is Scum in part because of the vote for Rysto over Oredigger
post 1352 comments on the other players and a vote on Meeko. Meeko looks Scummy for trying to vote iin a bloc with people he thinks are Scum. Ed and Meeko aren’t likely both Scum. Drain is Scummy because she’s hard selling the Meeko lynch. Thought Mahaloth was Town until the post where he found no one scummy. post 1370 fluff
Night 6 (0 posts)
Day 7 (8 posts) post 1413 hopes Cookies has a reason for the vote. Doesn’t like the make a case against yourself idea. post 1419 doesn’t trust Ed. has been almost burned by Ed before post 1425 responds to many comments from me.(just go read it, it’s not that long ago) post 1426 NETA post 1431 makes brief summaries about each unconfirmed player. 1. Mahaloth seems to be apathetic town, but bought into Ed’s make your own case plan which is scummy. 2. Drain…links her to Tom a lot. (go read it) 3. Special Ed has spent the game building Town rep. most scummy thing is suggesting the own cases idea post 1441 more back and forth with Ed post 1443 votes Drain post 1447 jumpy comment to Mahaloth and correction comment to Ed
I’m in he middle of combing through Drain’s posts and so far she is coming up pretty clean, while the Mahaloth posts I’ve encountered just in proximity to Drain’s are not looking good for him.
I’ve already wasted too much time to hold my comments until I’m done, so I’m going to dole out what I have and keep going.
Thoughts on Drain with Mahaloth tangents…
Drain went willingly and without much comment into the name claim. Her only question was wondering how the order would be determined.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12249411&postcount=258 - here Drain makes a minor smear at my previous incarnation, Kelly, for making a poorly justified bandwagon vote, but also allows for the possibility that Kelly’s status as a noob may be the root cause as opposed to scummitude.
<Mahaloth tangent #1> http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12279653&postcount=728 - here Mahaloth comes about as close as possible to defending Tom’s “slip” about the overnight thread. stating “I totally see what he meant there.” This seems pretty blatant to me, but I’m one of those players who will often go out of my way to say things like “I had no problem parsing his alleged intent”. But to know what Tom meant?
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12281256 - here I’m linking to a page instead of an individual post here, because there is an interesting exchange involving Drain, Mahaloth, and Zeriel between posts 733 and 748. This is where the blindspot that is Zeriel really sucks. My gut reaction to reading this exchange (with the hindsight about Peeker) is that Mahaloth and Zeriel could very easily be scum together. Regardless of their alignments, they both appear to be squeezing Drain here a bit. This basically counts as Mahaloth tangent #2 as well.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12285201&postcount=775 - here Drain brings up a very good point against Zeriel (who I am having a very hard time not reading as hostile to Town’s best interests, and the amount of grief that Mhaye received from Tom through this section has me leaning toward a Town read on Mhaye).
<Mahaloth tangent #3> http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12287547&postcount=815 - at this point I’m not just reading the posts around Drain’s posts, but rather scanning pages for posts from Drain or Mahaloth, and this one is another that does not bode well for Mahaloth. Moving his vote from Tom, where he’d slapped it for Tom’s rather out-of-the-blue vote on Freudian (which, incidentally, Ed thought might have legs) onto One And Only Wanderers for making a suggestion that I have no problem seeing as a pro-town move.
At this point I have no problem moving my placeholder to Mahaloth.
Unvote Ed Vote Mahaloth
Still subject to change, and I’m still re-hashing.
