Randy Moss dooms the Patriots

Cafe Society
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I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again - Randy Moss got treated shabbily here in Minnesota. Has he had problems? Sure. Of course he has. But those that happened in Minnesota were been blown out of all matter of proportion because he was the resident superstar making $7 million a year. Did he do some stupid things on field in Minnesota? Absolutely he did. But I feel that those were more indicative of the chaos and mismanagement within the locker room and Vikings office, sprinkled with a healthy dose of fan provocation, than of Randy’s inherent (and ill-deserved, IMO) “trouble-maker” reputation. I think things had gotten so bad within the locker room that he was just fed up, and spouted off. Should he have done it? Well, probably not. But his words did make people stake notice and attempt to hold the coaches to some sort of accountability (if you haven’t noticed, coaches in Minnesota have been lamentable, lately.) Randy may have been a symptom of the cancer in the Minnesota Vikings, but he was in no way the cause. And he deserved way better treatment than he got.

I’ll tell you this - Randy wants to win. Randy wants a ring. Randy’ll work his ass off for a team that he thinks will get him there. He knows he has to prove himself, now, and I know he will - just watch him. He’s made an excellent move, and I wish him all the best.

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[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
Um… I’m pretty sure the only players Joey Freaking Harrington has completed 67 passes to are cornerbacks.

In any case, Randy Moss and Harrington have never been on the same team, which leads me to further doubt your point.
[/QUOTE]

I guess my initial post wasn’t entirely clear. The Patriots have added Randy Moss (arguably the most talented etc), as well as possession receiver Wes Welker, who did indeed catch 67 passes last year as a member of the Miami Dolphins - most of them from Joey Harrington (although some from Daunte Culpepper and something called a Cleo Lemon).

The rest of my point stands.

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BTW, Wes Welker is going to be a great pick in Fantasy leagues with points per reception.

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And maybe if they had Moss last year, the would’ve won the Super Bowl.

Getting him for a fourth round pick says more about the ineptitude of the Raiders than if does Moss’ worth. Belichick made an ass of the Raiders- he probably would’ve traded a first rounder if they insisted. Once the Masqua-Raiders made it clear they didn’t want him, it was Advantage: Burns.

Al Davis said he would insist on at minimum a second-round pick for Moss, but I guess changed his mind. They would’ve probably released him outright if the Pats had waited long enough, but they couldn’t take the risk of someone else stepping in.

And again, Moss has never been a “cancer” in the clubhouse, as writers like to say. He’s no Barry Bonds, his teammates don’t resent him, he doesn’t have a superior attitude- he’s actually very humble and a big offseason for him is going fishing. You don’t hear about him in strip clubs gun brawls, it is mainly things that arise when a great players is stuck on a horrible team, and he won’t be any longer. Offseason he lives in a city and community that is predominately retirees.

And what risk? They gave up some cornerback from Cincinnati- if he casues problems, deactivate him, cut him, trade him- let’s see if that fouth round pick even makes the roster. A fourth-rounder for the best receiver of this era? That’s a no-brainer.

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Pats are now the team to beat… Belicheck coaching, Brady throwing to Moss, Stalworth, Welker.

Moss will chill out very fast, esp when the cold New England wind blows.

I would definitely take him on my FF team, and that is a “real” sign of support!

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[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
And maybe if they had Moss last year, the would’ve won the Super Bowl.

Getting him for a fourth round pick says more about the ineptitude of the Raiders than if does Moss’ worth. Belichick made an ass of the Raiders- he probably would’ve traded a first rounder if they insisted. Once the Masqua-Raiders made it clear they didn’t want him, it was Advantage: Burns.

Al Davis said he would insist on at minimum a second-round pick for Moss, but I guess changed his mind. They would’ve probably released him outright if the Pats had waited long enough, but they couldn’t take the risk of someone else stepping in.

And again, Moss has never been a “cancer” in the clubhouse, as writers like to say. He’s no Barry Bonds, his teammates don’t resent him, he doesn’t have a superior attitude- he’s actually very humble and a big offseason for him is going fishing. You don’t hear about him in strip clubs gun brawls, it is mainly things that arise when a great players is stuck on a horrible team, and he won’t be any longer. Offseason he lives in a city and community that is predominately retirees.

And what risk? They gave up some cornerback from Cincinnati- if he casues problems, deactivate him, cut him, trade him- let’s see if that fouth round pick even makes the roster. A fourth-rounder for the best receiver of this era? That’s a no-brainer.
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I agree with all of this. Randy’s “character” issues have been largely exaggerated by the media. His off the field controversies have been tempests in teapots (a meter maid jumped on his car, a stewardess gave him crap about his carry-on luggage), and his on the field stuff has been trivial at best (“mooning” the crowd at Lambeau, walking back to the locker room with less than two seconds to go in a lost game). He has never been a cancer in the locker room. His teammates in Minnesota always said they liked him as a person. What they haven’t liked is that when things are going badly for his team, he gets frustrated, loses motivation and stops trying. When things are going well, they say he’s a great teammate. He’s not perfect, but he’s nothing close to T.O.

I think he still has the talent to rejuvenate his career. I think his drop off in Oakland was a result of his loss of motivation, not a dramatic loss of physical skills (apparently, he can still run a 4.3 forty). In NE, he not only has a chance to get a ring but with a handful of good seasons has a real shot at Canton. Motivation won’t be a problem for him there.

It’s also a low risk deal for the Pats. They’ve already told him that his first controversy with the team will be his last. If he proves to be a problem (which I don’t think he will), the Pats will cut him and all they will have lost is a 4th round draft pick. It’s worth the risk for a guy who can be the best receiver in the game when he’s at his best.

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[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq]
The Patriots are good. Randy Moss adds nothing except potential dissension the minute he doesn’t think he’s getting enough looks at the ball. Corey Dillon was never the malcontent that Randy Moss was; people forget how long he put up with the Bengals before he finally said, I’ve had enough.

Time will tell, but mark my words, this was not a good trade in the long run for the Patriots.
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Maybe they don’t care about the long run. Maybe they care about winning the Super Bowl in 2008.

I agree with those who predict Moss will tone his act down this year, and, barring injury, will probably have a huge year, catch 94 passes and score 12 touchdowns, and maybe get a nice big shiny ring that says “Super Bowl Champions.” And then the Patriots, being the smartest organization in the NFL, will trade him for a higher pick to a team that will suddenly find themselves putting up with all the Randy Moss bullshit they thought was in the past, and the Patriots will giggle about it for years to come.

This is the ultimate, the PERFECT, one year acquisition.

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[QUOTE=RickJay]
Maybe they don’t care about the long run. Maybe they care about winning the Super Bowl in 2008.

I agree with those who predict Moss will tone his act down this year, and, barring injury, will probably have a huge year, catch 94 passes and score 12 touchdowns, and maybe get a nice big shiny ring that says “Super Bowl Champions.” And then the Patriots, being the smartest organization in the NFL, will trade him for a higher pick to a team that will suddenly find themselves putting up with all the Randy Moss bullshit they thought was in the past, and the Patriots will giggle about it for years to come.

This is the ultimate, the PERFECT, one year acquisition.
[/QUOTE]

Don’t be so sure the Pats fans will be so ready to let him go if he has one of his spectacular seasons. When he’s on his game, he is a quintessential crowd pleaser. Wait until the first time they see him go over two defenders to make a one handed catch on an out pattern and then sprint up the sideline for a 70 yard score. He usually has at least a handful of truly dazzling performances in him over the course of a season and that tends to win the fans over.

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And don’t think that his “down seasons” in Oakland were his fault- look at the qb rating for the team in that span, as well as the number of sacks and hurries. IIRC by far worst in the league- 72 sacks last year I think.

I watched two Oakland games last year, one with Walter and one with Brooks I think, and literally every time they dropped back they had defenders on their ass- you need at least a few seconds to get downfield for a 50 yard bomb, and Moss hardly ever got the chance.

When you are coached by and idiot like Art Shell (canned after one year, what does that say) with lead blocking by Robert “Tony Mandarich” Gallery, wouldn’t you get frustrated?

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Randy “Straight cash, homey” Moss is nowhere near as bad as he was in the early phase of his career. Minnesota was a total disaster in the front office and in the locker room when Moss was there, so there was no quality leadership from veterans nor from the coaching staff.

Oakland was a different kind of clusterfuck, with no offensive weapons except Moss, and a terrible coach in Art Shell, its hard to imagine anybody who really wants to win keeping quiet there.

Moss has calmed down a lot in recent years, I think he’ll be a great fit on the Pats. Finally having a good QB who can throw it downfield? He’s licking his chops.

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When Moss first played for the Vikings he was mentored by Chris Carter. That didn’t work at all. So it’s hard to say there was no leadership guiding him in MN.

Corey Dillon never came close to the stuff Moss has pulled in his years in the league.

We don’t know how good Moss is anymore. Were his bad numbers in Oakland entirely not his fault? He seems to get injured all the time now.

He needs to have a comeback if he wants to make it to the Hall. A couple good years do not make a HOF career.

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[QUOTE=Captain Lance Murdoch]
When Moss first played for the Vikings he was mentored by Chris Carter. That didn’t work at all. So it’s hard to say there was no leadership guiding him in MN.

Corey Dillon never came close to the stuff Moss has pulled in his years in the league.

We don’t know how good Moss is anymore. Were his bad numbers in Oakland entirely not his fault? He seems to get injured all the time now.

He needs to have a comeback if he wants to make it to the Hall. A couple good years do not make a HOF career.
[/QUOTE]

Injured all the time now? He’s missed six games in his career (three with Oakland).

A couple of good years? Try eight. And people forget, he had a decent year his first with Oakland (60-1005-8).

And Corey Dillion vs. Moss, criminal history? Dillon dwarfs Moss, before and after the NFL.

here’s a sumamry of his history:

COREY DILLON
Arrested for: DUI, theft (twice), intent to sell cocaine, obstructing a police officer (thrice), resisting arrest (twice), assault (five times), criminal trespass, malicious mischief (twice), reckless endangerment (twice)
Corey Dillon has committed so many crimes (with such variety!), we inducted him early. He had 11 arrests before age 17. Since going pro Corey’s been busted for DUI, driving with a suspended license, and assaulting his wife. Dillon was sentenced to rigorous “community service”—working with area youngsters on football skills and refereeing intramural basketball games. We still expect a lot of jail time from this promising youngster.

What are Mosses crimes? Flight attendant argument (where passengers said he was polite and not in the wrong), parking ticket issuer problem (ones word vs. the others), pot possession, mooning crowd, etc. Not one violent crime in the bunch.

And Dillon got off a bad team the same way Moss did- complaining- is that so bad for a player who has all the stats but wants to win a championship?

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[QUOTE=Captain Lance Murdoch]
When Moss first played for the Vikings he was mentored by Chris Carter. That didn’t work at all. So it’s hard to say there was no leadership guiding him in MN.
[/quote]

It worked for the first couple of years. Moss had no problems in those years. He eventually grew tired of CC’s act, but so did the rest of the team.

What are you talking about? What did Moss ever do that was comparable to the numerous arrests for assault, drug charges and DUI’s on Dillon’s rap sheet?

Moss had two off the field incidents. One was a run-in with a flight attendant in which other passengers said Moss was polite and respectful while the flight attendant was rude and on a “power trip.”

The FAA did not pursue charges against Moss and the matter was dropped.

His most significant controversy was the overblown incident with a meter maid who jumped on the hood of his car to try to stop him from making an illegal turn. The Minneapolis Police Department eventually concluded that the traffic officer had been over zealous and Moss pled guilty to a misdemeanor traffic violation. He was wrong to ignore the officer and try to edge into that turn, but it was not the vicious attack it was made out to be, and certainly nothing comparable to some of what Corey Dillon has been busted for. He essentially tried to make an illegal turn (he’s not the first one in downtown Minny to do that, let me tell you). I don’t see how that compares to assault and drug charges.

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[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
Injured all the time now? He’s missed six games in his career (three with Oakland).

A couple of good years? Try eight. And people forget, he had a decent year his first with Oakland (60-1005-8).

And Corey Dillion vs. Moss, criminal history? Dillon dwarfs Moss, before and after the NFL.

here’s a sumamry of his history:

COREY DILLON
Arrested for: DUI, theft (twice), intent to sell cocaine, obstructing a police officer (thrice), resisting arrest (twice), assault (five times), criminal trespass, malicious mischief (twice), reckless endangerment (twice)
Corey Dillon has committed so many crimes (with such variety!), we inducted him early. He had 11 arrests before age 17. Since going pro Corey’s been busted for DUI, driving with a suspended license, and assaulting his wife. Dillon was sentenced to rigorous “community service”—working with area youngsters on football skills and refereeing intramural basketball games. We still expect a lot of jail time from this promising youngster.

What are Mosses crimes? Flight attendant argument (where passengers said he was polite and not in the wrong), parking ticket issuer problem (ones word vs. the others), pot possession, mooning crowd, etc. Not one violent crime in the bunch.

And Dillon got off a bad team the same way Moss did- complaining- is that so bad for a player who has all the stats but wants to win a championship?
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Well you nailed Dillon’s Juvenile criminal record, but I was talking about Moss’ behavior in the league. Dillon never said he plays when he wants to nor did he trash his team on the radio on the eve of week one. Moss has gone out of his way to be attitude problem. And I can’t agree with the statement made earlier that his teammates were cool with him. It was more a matter of his teammates refusing to talk about him. Moss complained his way off of two teams, not one. He made it clear he wanted off of the Vikings in the locker-room after they lost the NFC Championship game to the Giants. Making it to the title game wasn’t good enough for Randy, he had to find a better team. Moss had chipped in 18 yards receiving in that game.

Moss has been injured frequently over the past few seasons. He is often at less than 100%. Although some of that may be just an excuse.

Moss was great in first few years, but he hasn’t measured up since. His numbers have been inflated by such ploys as the “Randy Ratio” in which every attempt was made to get him the ball as often as possible, but these efforts met with failure. In fact, the Vikings offense got markedly better when Moss was out hurt in his last season in Minnesota. Other teams have also gotten better at defending him. Jam him and take him out of the game early. After that he goes into mope mode.

Maybe he will turn things around in Boston. Maybe he can learn to be a cog in a machine rather than a prima-donna. I stand by my assertion, however, that he will have to do this if he wants to see the Hall Of Fame because as of now he doesn’t get in. After his rookie season, that would have seemed like an impossibility.

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[QUOTE=Captain Lance Murdoch]
Well you nailed Dillon’s Juvenile criminal record, but I was talking about Moss’ behavior in the league. Dillon never said he plays when he wants to nor did he trash his team on the radio on the eve of week one. Moss has gone out of his way to be attitude problem. And I can’t agree with the statement made earlier that his teammates were cool with him. It was more a matter of his teammates refusing to talk about him. Moss complained his way off of two teams, not one. He made it clear he wanted off of the Vikings in the locker-room after they lost the NFC Championship game to the Giants. Making it to the title game wasn’t good enough for Randy, he had to find a better team. Moss had chipped in 18 yards receiving in that game.
[/quote]

The “I play when I want to play” quote was more about not wanting to say that he needed other players to motivate him and really rather trivial IMO. he also never said he wanted off the team after the Giants loss (a humiliating 41-0 stomping). He was asked if he would ever win a Superbowl and he said something to the effect of “I don’t know if it will be with the Vikings.” I’m a Vikings fan and I didn’t see anything unfair about that statement, and I took into account that it was said immediately in the wake of a deflating playoff loss.

Really, these kinds of things only reinforce my opinion that Randy’s “cancer” reputation is exaggerated. They are a bunch of minor incidents or blustery statements to the press but there’s nothing really significant.

I would say that Moss’s flaw is that as the team goes, so goes his attitude and motivation. If his team sucks, he sulks and loses interest. I don’t think that’s going to be an issue with the Pats and even if it is, he worst that will happpen is that BB will cut him and the Pats are out a 4th round draft pick. There isn’t much risk in giving him a shot.

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And who knows if he was serious, fucking with the media, in a bad mood that day, etc. Take one statement one day and make it out like the guy doesn’t care about his team or winning. sheesh.

Stats inflated because of the Randy ratio- I don’t get it. If you get him the ball, sure his stats go up, but so does the teams chances of winning. If the balls in the Randy ratio are incomplete, no stats- if they’re complete, stats, plus touchdown- better chance of team winning. Everybody wins. I would throw it for grabs basically to him ten times a game if I were his coach.

That’s another one I never understood- when is it a bad thing to want to get your best player the ball? You give Barry Sanders the ball 30 times a game if your the Lions and you’re a smart coach, right? How is wanting to get a guy who can score on any play a bad thing, ever?

And no, Dillon assaulting a woman was in the NFL. Nothing Moss has done has involved violence or selling/using hard drugs. Pretty much silliness would be the word to describe any and all.

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I was just looking at Moss’s career stats. An average season for him is 85 catches for 1300+ yards and 12 TDs. The guy has 57 career catches for 40+ yds. Those are the best average per season stats for any receiver in the NFL. The only receiver comparable is Marvin Harrison. I don’t know how anyone can look at RM’s stats and not think he can do anything but help a team. I’d take Moss back on the Purple any day.

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And may I say, I am no defender of punks or thugs in sports or elsewhere- Ron Artest, Stepehn Jackson, Barry Bonmds, Terrell Owens are all scum IMO. But I just don’t see it with Randy. He’s a polite, soft spoken country boy. Fans LOVE him, not only becasue of his on the field, but he embraces them off.

The media (some of them) had him pegged as a bad seed from day one, and have to blow up minor things to make them seem right.

In summary, in nine years of adult life, we have:

minor incident with flight attendant (people who did not know who he was said he was polite and did nothing wrong)- who among us has not experienced an asshole stewardess with an inflated sense of worth?

minor incident where traffic cop tried to forcibly keep him from committing a minor traffic violation- who among us has not parked in a no parking zone?- judge called cop overzealous.

Admitted to smoking the demon weed marihuana in the past- again who among us. And not a Ricky Williams deal, never tested positive.

Faux-moon of the asshole Packer fans. Moss said he was just having fun with them, cause they were giving him shit.

And of course “I play when I want to play”.

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Randy Moss is a pile of garbage who never once acted like a gave a crap on the Raiders. Yes the team was a disaster but he never did anything but go through the motions. Now he got shipped to a winning team and will probably start giving a crap, maybe running a route or two instead of jogging, and not drop 3 out of every 4 passes that hit his hands. Basically he is the epitome of everything that is wrong with modern professional athletes. I had a front row seat for the Randy Moss experiment (Oakland versuin) and I’ve never seen anyone phone it in that egregiously. I dont think he broke a sweat once last season.

With that said, its a brilliant move by the Pats because he cost them nothing and presents no risk. At the very worst they are out a 4th round pick and few bucks when they cut his contract, and at best they have an elite receiver they haven’t had in recent years. Yet another brilliant Belichek maneuver. And when he is lighting it up for 1300 yds and 12 tds next year, I will be stabbing myself in the eyeballs every sunday…