"Rape" sex?! What the hell is wrong with you people?! (Fucked up!)

The BBQ Pit
161

Hey, Space Vampire?

First off, do you have anything particularly meaningful or memorable to contribute to this discussion, other than repeatedly telling us how wrong, sick, twisted, and depraved we all are? :rolleyes:

Oh, bestill my beating heart. As if ‘rape porn’ were the only thing in the whole world that has ever been mis-represented or mis-advertised. Are you one of those people who believes that the WWF is for real, too? And I suppose you answer all those ads you get in your email for a cream to add 17 inches to your penis? Or maybe you only believe that the girls on those porn sites really are 18 year-old virgin cheerleaders? Welcome to the real world. That’s how advertising is done for many things. IT ISN’T ALL TRUE. If you have problems accepting this fact, then I think perhaps you are the one that is sick. Having problems differentiating between fiction and reality is one of the mental dysfunctions listed on the DSM-IV. Unlike rape-fantasy, which is considered to be, like any other fantasy, a normal human expression. According to the Sinclair Intimacy Institute:

‘Rape’ porn is simply the pornography market taking advantage of that. It’s still pictures of people having sex. It’s just portrayed in a light that makes it seem more like a particular fantasy. If you don’t like it, don’t look. It sounds like you already feel guilty about looking at porn in the first place, so, gee, if you can’t handle it, maybe you should stop?

sigh I think you’re missing a major point here. Whether or not a particular fantasy is “okay” is not yours to judge, for anyone but you. If Jarbabyj wants to fantasize about, or even act out a fantasy about, being raped, then that is her prerogative. If she wants to act out that fantasy, film it, and send a copy to all of her friends, then that is still her prerogative. Your only right in relation to that is that, if you find it posted on the internet, and you don’t want to see it, DON’T FUCKING LOOK AT IT! You don’t have to like it, or even think it’s okay. But you didn’t make the movie, or take the pictures, so you don’t have to be okay with it.

No, some things are not okay. Child pornography, for example, is not fucking okay. It’s a crime. The act itself is a crime, and therefore pictures about it are criminal evidence. But pictures of a 19-year-old model who dresses up as a school girl and happens to look younger, is okay. That’s how the law works. So, if somebody is stupid enough to really rape someone, film it, put it on the internet, and charge people money to see it, then a crime has been committed. And that’s not fucking okay. But if all of the adults in the pictures consented and acted out a scenario, then, sorry, whether you like it or not, it is fucking okay. Fighting ignorance sometimes means opening up your mind, rather than your mouth, and listening to other points of view, rather than just spouting your ridiculous invective about other people’s lives. So unless you have something more constructive to offer than your opinion that we’re all sick, twisted perverts who need to be executed, would you please put a stake in it, and shut the fuck up?

-Stiletto

162

Holy crap jarbabyj!

thanks! :smiley:

163

anytime peaches :wink:

164

Lizard, I was hoping that you could clear up some confusion I am having about what precisely you’re trying to argue. Here is what I get so far: you believe that pictures that depict rape, but that are not distinguishable from pictures of actual rapes, should be banned. Does this accurately characterize your position? If so, could you please clarify the following?

When you say that a picture is not distinguishable from pictures of actual rape, do you mean that

(A) someone, somewhere in the world, would see no reason to think that this is not a picture of an actual rape;

or,

(B) some adult with normal intelligence, somewhere in the world, would see no reason to think that this is not a picture of an actual rape;

or,

(C) you, personally, see no reason to think that this is not a picture of an actual rape;

or,

(D) the majority of adults with normal intelligence in the world would see no reason to think that this is not a picture of an actual rape;

or,

(E) a committee of expert photographic analysts, make-up artists, and mainstream pornographers would be able find no reason to think that this is not a picture of an actual rape;

or,

(F) officers of the law would be unable to track down the origin of the photograph and verify that the photographer received a signed consent form from the woman in the photograph that was not signed under conditions of duress;

or,

(G) officers of the law have not yet tracked down the origin of the photograph and verified that the photographer received a signed consent form from the woman in the photograph that was not signed under conditions of duress?

Or do you mean something else entirely?

165

You know what Stiletto? Fuck you. Belittle my “contributions” if you must, but I don’t see anything more than the same old shit in your post. Blah blah can’t judge other people blah blah. Fuck that, you, and everyone who places open-mindededness above some minimal sense of morality.

166

Tyrrell,

You left out the most likely: option

(H): Anyone who has different tastes or disagrees with Lizard is a yukky, poo-headed pervert.

Fenris

167

You mean your idea of morality, don’t you? C’mon, fess up. You’re among friends. I was right before, wasn’t I? You really do think anyone who doesn’t agree with you is evil and worthy of your pity, dontcha?

168

Cripes Space Vampire, now you’re suggesting a big ammoral gang bang.

Who’s in?

169

I’m in if I can be tied up and blindfolded next to Mistress jarbabyj and Mistress Dryad!
I can bring handcuffs, leg cuffs and a few whips.
It can be a potluck kind of thing.

170

Hey, Jarbaby, I hope you didn’t mind me using you as an example…:smiley: [sub]And hey, can I have a copy, too? Pleeeeeze?[/sub]

And now back to our program.

Space Vampire I wasn’t belittling your contributions. I was attempting to cause you to make a contribution. So far, you haven’t, really, other than condemning everybody else for their viewpoint by way of your morality. But I guess if “Fuck you” is the best response you can come up with, I won’t bother waiting for anything else intelligent. I don’t place open-mindedness above morality. I just make conscious decisions about issues, by learning about them first. Minds, like parachutes, function best when open. As I mentioned, child porn is wrong. So is rape. So are lots of other things. But there’s nothing wrong with a little pretend. If you don’t like it, go play somewhere else. And if you’re tired of running into things like this surfing random porn on the internet…maybe you should stick to magazines and videos or something. shrug I don’t know of any other way to help you.

Now, as far as that immoral gang-bang goes…count me in, too. Sounds like it could be a lot of fun. :smiley:

-Stiletto

[sub]If electricity comes from electrons,
that must mean that morality comes from morons.[/sub]

171

Oh no! Stop! Don’t! EEEK! (more, harder, HURT ME…)

172

This is ridicuous. Why don’t you guys just go over there and pretend you’ve “won” the argument by going “waaahhh you can’t push your morality on other people” and I’ll stay over here and pretend I’ve won by stating what should be fucking obvious to anybody with a shred of decency. If you can’t agree that rape and the explicit marketing of rape (and no, it really doesn’t matter that it’s probably fake. And I still believe that it’s entirely possible that real material is available to those who look.) is wrong, I don’t know what to do with you.

173

Space Vampire, if I hold you up next to my ear can I hear the ocean?

For the rest of you, don’t think I’m getting left out of the gang bang. I have hospital restraints to bring - no bruises. :smiley:

174

Dammit. There goes that last shred of decency. Now I have to wear a thong.

Jeezus. It’s like being in an argument with Eliza. There are elements of what I said in the reply,
but they really don’t have anything to do with what I said. They just sorta echo the same idea, over, and
over, and over, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

I AGREED with you that rape is wrong, Space Vampire. I personally think we should
apply capital punishment for rape convictions. It’s not a sex crime so much as it is a hate crime that uses sex as the vehicle. But I don’t believe that censorship is going to stop rape. It just isn’t going to affect it at all. But if you want to feel like you’ve won, then feel free to go out in the parking lot and play hide-and-go-justify-yourself until you pass out. I’m tired of listening to you regurgitate your ridiculous, judgemental ‘morality’ to the rest of us with no real content or information at all.

Hey Stoid, I probably won’t hurt you much…but I can do some amazing things with a few silk scarves, a feather, and a bottle of massage oil. Will that do? :smiley:

-Stiletto

[sub]If electricity comes from electrons,
that must mean that morality comes from morons.[/sub]

175

But you see, I never EVER said that we should apply censorship to stop rape, or that any such measures might make a dent in rape statistics. I can’t be expected to defend assertions that you read into what I’ve written, which amounts to "it is wrong to present violent rape, real or staged, for titillation. " That is my position in its most simplified form. Obviously the real thing is worse than staged stuff, but I still think it’s wrong to celebrate suffering this way. All those people with rape fantasies… I don’t find that healthy, but what people think is up to them. Some things shouldn’t be encouraged though.

I’m not sure how I would feel about bringing the law into it, which is why I haven’t said a word about it. Lizard might’ve said something like that somewhere, but we’re not the same person.

I guess maybe I should take back “fuck you” if we’re just having problems communicating, but remember it was you who started directing the fuck-word at me, though not as directly. I used it before, but not TO anybody if I recall.

And good one, seawitch. Classy.

176

The problem with not allowing to “celebrate suffering” is that it’s done all the time. In regular movies, you see plenty of rapes, and even much more murders. These murder scenes, the blood, the violence etc…are usually included because it attracts more viewer. It has been pointed out to you several times. So, would you forbid the depiction of murders, in particular when presented in a positive way (the “good” guy killing one hundred of “bad” guys) in an ordinary movies?

I guess not. I guess your issue is with things which are ** sexually** titillating. If not, you would want violent movies, horror movies, etc…to be forbidden too. So, I would ask you : why is being sexually titillated by the depiction of suffering worst than being “intellectually” or “emotionnally” titillated by the depiction of the same? Why is it wrong to pay to see the depiction of a rape because it’s arousing, and right to pay to see the depiction of a murder because it’s exciting?

177

trust me on this guys…:smiley:

our family tree may not branch, but it’s got some lovely kinks!

178

Lizard, you don’t have to convince anyone here that rape is wrong. (At least, I hope not.)

Personally, I find images of rape totally repellent-- I’m right with you there.

I don’t think that supplying pornographic images to people who indulge in rape fantasy is unforgivable, and certainly not something that should be outlawed.

I personally think that it’s exploitive and disgusting to make millions of dollars by sticking two men in a boxing ring a charging people to watch them beat each other senseless. But I wouldn’t take steps to have my opinion on this matter written into law, even though there is real physical harm being done, and if two guys on the street engaged in the same behaviour they’d face criminal charges. Do gladiator-like games create more violence in the world-at-large by glorifying thugs? Or does it somehow sublimate the violent urges of the spectators? I don’t know either way. I consider that the only sensible recourse I have is to withhold my personal support of such events-- and if it somehow seems germane to the conversation, I’ll offer my opinion-- as my opinion. But I’m not going to froth at the mouth about what a bunch of sick fucks the boxing commision are, and suggest that anyone who derives any pleasure from the sport is exhibiting symptoms of some pathological condition.

In my opinion, simulated violence is less reprehensible than real violence, especially when it is for material gain.

I reiterate that I’ve met a number of people who enjoy an element of (imaginary) violence & danger in their sexlives – I don’t know if rape-oriented pornography would appeal to them or not.

Personal morality is a difficult issue.

As long as no one is harmed, it’s repressive to suggest that any behaviour should be discouraged.

I suggest you take a look at the Cracker mystery Men Should Weep. It explores the danger of confusing rape fantasy with actual rape.

Does a woman’s admission that she indulges in rape fantasy imply that she is more likely enjoy being raped in reality? No sane person would suggest that it does.

Conversly, does a man’s admission that he indulges in rape fantasy imply that he is likely to commit a rape in reality? If you feel that it is so, why so?

There are plenty of forms of entertainment that I find objectionable or offensive. I don’t look at them. I admit I may feel some contempt for people who do enjoy the things I find repellent. That’s probably human nature.

But I most certainly do not consider that my subjective ethos is some sort of universal law that should be enforced at the expense of those that disagree with me. I might, but I worry that I might hurt my neck trying to get my head that far up my ass.

179

I am soo getting in on this!

I’ll bring the whipped cream for “dessert”!

180

And to further Larry’s excellent post, I would suggest to Lizard and Space Vampire that you both read up on the phenomenon of the rape fantasy in reality, what it means, and what its bases are.

My stongest recommendation is MArgaret Atwoods brilliant short story “Rape Fantasies.”

Beyond that, here’s a WebMD link to get you started: