Rape Fantasies---female thing

Great Debates
1

Some females talk about having rape fantasies, but they usually also say that they would be horrified if the actual rape took place as envisioned in their rape fantasy.

Since I am a male, I can not relate with this sexual fantasy. Does this mean that rape fantasies are exclusively a female thing, or are there exceptions?

If a female can only become sexually excited thru the use of rape fantasies, and can only reach orgasm thru the use of rape fantasies, does this qualify her to be classified a paraphiliac? Is there a name for this paraphilia, if it is a paraphilia?

Is there a connection between male rapists and females that have rape fantasies?

In the rape fantasy, does the female being raped envision the rapist as being a character like John Galt or Howard Roark, or does the socio-economic status, or the beauty of the rapist not play any part in the rape fantasy?

Is the female in the rape fantasy always beautiful? Do the rapists in the fantasy, always rape because they are overcome with lust, caused by the beauty of the female being raped? Do alpha females have less rape fantasies than beta females?

Is the ultimate cause of rape fantasies genetic, and the proximate cause memetic? My position is that they are.

If my position on the memetic side is correct, then how are these rape fantasies transferred to the brains of females, female-female lust talk, or literature and the media?
jesse

“You are the world”—J. Krishnamurti
“If we’re all butterflies, are some more equal than others, and will wing flapping create sorrow, terrorism, and earthquakes?”—jesse

2

And i don’t know a lot of the terms you’re talking about, but I’ll give you my two cents.

The rape fantasies I have are in no way similar to actual rape. I strongly believe that most women who have rape fantasies have, what I call “Literature” rape fantasies.

The rapist is gorgeous of course, a charmer, a sleek, amusing, brilliant villain.

There is no extreme physical violence. While it may be a situation that includes Humiliation (which is necessary for my fantasy), bondage, and even crying and pleading for mercy…i do find that in most of the rape fantasies I read about or talk to other women about, there isn’t a threat of death. You don’t have your tongue cut out, you’re not left broken and bleeding in an alley.

Women and men the world over scream up and down that rape isn’t a sexual act, rather it is an act of rage and power and violence. This is true. But when women fantasize about rape it IS a sexual act…just like in the movies :rolleyes:

I think it’s definitely something I was born with, just like my love of bondage. I remember when I was little I used to WISH that I would be kidnapped. I thought it would be exciting. I would tie my own ankles together for fun.

So I don’t know if that helps, but from a woman who has experienced both sides of the issue (fantasy and real), I think I have a bit of…expertise.

jar

3

Me again, Jesse. I’m not stalking you. I like to talk psychology and your threads are discussions/debates on various subjects in that field.

To the subject- I have NEVER read of or talked with a woman with a rape fantasy. Many women have the fantasy of a forceful stranger, but this is a very different thing. Rape involves a man performing a sex act on a woman against her will. She does not give consent, or desire the act. The rapist knows this and does not care. A forceful lover does not ask consent  because, in his superhuman studliness, he knows without asking that the woman consents. The forceful over may be somewhat rough in his actions, but he knows that the woman gives consent and desires and enjoys the activities. Harlequin romance and similiar books are filled with pirates, soldiers, servants, etc who fulfill the forceful lover fantasy of the reader and the female lead (rich society woman, princess, upper class maid etc).

   Again, a rapist acts against a woman's wishes. A forceful lover is the answer to many a woman's wishes. There is a HUGE difference between rape and the FL.
4

Nevertheless, DocCathode the term “rape fantasy” has come to mean a sexual fantasy in which a woman does not give her consent, is forced upon by an apparently unwanted man, physically struggles to resist but is overpowered, and secretly (unbeknownst to her assailant) actually wants him to do this.

5

I should have noted that men also have the forceful lover fantasy. The only difference being that, for heterosexual men anyway, the gender of the FL. What (hetero0teenage boy hasn’t daydreamed about a cheerleader silently advancing on him, and then silently tearing off his clothes, throwing him down on the floor and bringing him to ecstasy? The best example of the male FL is found in an episode of ST-Voyager. Ensign Harry Kim is performing a repair in some secluded section of the ship. Seven of Nine (Geri Ryan in a very tight body suit) approaches Kim, and kisses him. As she pushes Kim to the floor, Seven repeats the classic Borg statement “Resistance is futile.” Here, the woman is the agressor and is dominant in the situation. She does not ask for consent, but knows that she has it. The scene is, in fact, revealed as a fantasy-Kim’s.

6

For some reason this reminds me of an exchange in Terry Pratchett’s The Last Hero. Paraphrased:

“So what sort of things does [Cohen The Barbarian] do?”
“Things like plunder temples, burn cities, rape–”
“I think the term ‘ravash’ is more appropriate in his case.”
“Oh? What’s the difference?”
“No one ever complains.”

:wink:

I’m personally curious as to how “accurate” is the OP’s claim that women even have “rape fantasies” – the women friends I talked to about this topic have admitted that they have fantasies of being seduced against their will, but that’s a big difference from a “rape fantasy” IMO, which implies sexual intercourse by force against the woman’s will.

7

Margret Atwood (I think) wrote a short story on this exact subject, it’s pretty interesting. The name was “Rape Fantasies” or something to that effect.

8

rjung, there are plenty of women who have down and dirty, nightmarish rape fantasies. I know a girl who wants nothing more than to be raped at knife point, and she has plenty of men willing to do it.

Herein lies the problem. It’s unspeakably dangerous to voice such things outside the safety of a) your marriage or close relationship or b) the anonymity of the internet. When I was in highschool and college I certainly explored my love of bondage but was careful never…EVER to mention my mild to moderately violent rape fantasies.

My fantasies do not feature the hideous shame, depression and dirtiness that I felt when I really WAS raped a long LONG time ago, but they DO feature NO consent, threats to my safety, humiliation, violence (slapping, kicking) and crying and begging for release.

Rape fantasies really aren’t the stuff of sitting around in a bar chatting…they’re kind of dark and hideous. I don’t talk about them often.

jar

9

i mean no disrespect in any way, but jarbabyj, would you be so kind as to share with us whether these “rape fantasies” changed in any way after you were raped? were your prior fantasies comparable in any way to the actual act, or were they an entirely unrelated entity, unchanged by your rape experience? no pressure to reply, delving into some personal stuff here, i know. but i think it would serve the cause of the OP.

10

Why certainly.

I’ve had rape fantasies since I was 13. They were considerably mild at that point since I really had no idea what even REGULAR, Nice happy sex was all about. All I knew was that I wanted a big, scary, mysterious (and gorgeous) man to steal me away, scare me to death and have sex with me.

I was raped when I was sixteen. On a date with a guy who was 21. There have been worse rapes in the world, I’m sure, but it was fairly disgusting and devastating to me. He threatened my family and me, and covered my mouth with his hand and told me “please please please think about something else” because of how much it was going to hurt.

I was not beaten or knocked out or anything, but I was dropped off in my driveway, left staring into my parent’s house, feeling like I didn’t even live there anymore.

Anyway, doctor :), my fantasies got actually MORE violent after that. But they also got more humiliating, more detailed, they inlcuded more necessary details (hands tied, blindfolded, smoking).

I’ve told the SDMB (which is mostly strangers) and my husband that I was raped. Although I know it isn’t true at all, I do somewhat blame myself for what happened, because I used to think about it and actually ‘wish’ for it all the time. So to tell someone about it would make me look like a hypocrite.

TMI, probably, but if I can help the OP, I’d be glad to.

jar

11

I read the “Rape Fantasies” short story in college a couple years ago, and it had nothing to do with my understanding of typical rape fantasies. It was pretty clear in that story that the narrator had been raped in her actual life, and her fantasies were her way of dealing with the horror of the actual rape-- she repeatedly turns her rapist into a weak, powerless, almost sympathetic character as a way to cope. It’s a very sad, gripping story.

I’ll jump in with jarbaby and say that I definitely have rape fantasies, and they’re very dark things. I’ve never shared the details of them with anyone, and only the barest outline of them to my husband. I won’t talk about them here, nor with anyone, ever, except for with my husband because I trust him implicitly (and even with him, the details of the fantasies are too private to share). What I will say is that in them, I am not willing, I do not secretly want to be raped, and there is pain and humiliation galore. That’s what makes them exciting, when I’m in that sort of mood. I can also guarantee you that I do NOT want to be raped in real life, nor do I consider rape a sexual act, or feel anything other than horror over the act itself IRL.

I do not know of any women who only orgasm through rape fantasies (and I ain’t such a one). However, this particular area of fantasy isn’t well documented, and I’d warrant that it never will be.

What sort of connection could there be between actual rapists and women who enjoy rape fantasies? I can’t imagine what it would be. When I waitressed, I just as often had fantasies of a customer leaving me a million-dollar tip. No one ever did. How would you document such a connection?

I don’t know who John Galt or Howard Roark are. Sometimes the point is that the rapist is ugly. Sometimes the point is that he’s beautiful. Sometimes he’s neither-- just a presence. Status has never entered in. I think all your questions regarding physical appearance and motivation depend entirely on the person doing the fantasizing, and what mood that person is in at the time, etc. Totally subjective and fluid.

What does this mean, exactly? And why do you think it’s true?

12

I was under the impression that most rape fantasies express a desire to indulge in sensuality without feeling guilty about it; if it’s a rape, then it was not by the woman’s choice, but since she actually was wanting it and simply repressing it, that means that she gets what she wants (sex) without the blame for having sought it out.

But, and I readily admit this, I am neither a woman nor a rapist.

13

I’ve had fantasies where I was raped and then-SAVED by the man of my dreams, FWIW. I don’t know if that counts.

:o

Roark and Galt are characters of Ayn Rand, from The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged, respectively.

14

That’s UnPossible!

Either you’re a woman (or a child I suppose) or you’re a rapist, by definition!

15

thanks jar, that was informative. and it wasn’t TMI, i asked for it! :slight_smile:

that’s exactly what i thought until this thread. i think that NORMAL (in a broad sense) female psychology is exactly as you say though, most women can justify indulging in sexual acts if it is the male who initiates the encounter. this came up in a recent discussion among my male friends. all straight guys are familiar with the situation of dating a girl who says she wants to cool off the physical side of the relationship a bit (how sexually involved you are is irrelevant–just physical relationship). and all straight guys know that this rarely happens, cause the guy is the gas and the girl the brakes, right? but myself and my friends all found that in those few times when you stick to your guns and respect their wishes, they get more physical until they get what they want. i’ve even made women cry because i’m trying to respect their own wishes and don’t give into temptation! so my conclusion to this well-known situation is that most women need a mental justification of acts that may be considered immoral. and who would consider a woman who is raped to be immoral? nobody! she is the victim, even though she may have wanted it.

but as i said before, this opinion seems to have changed a bit, now that i’ve seen this thread. my hypothesis seems only to apply to a broad range of “literature” rape fantasies, while it seems that violent rape fantasies may more likely be linked to trauma or fetishes.

16

Just a suggestion: is it possible that these thoughts represent a fantasy of being so attractive and desirable that instead of having to attract a man, he is overpoweringly attracted on his own, to the point of proceding with negative encouragement.

Could there be anything in this?

17

Interesting topic. Makes me wonder if the moral judgement of a person who actively engages in rape fantasies matters whether they are the recipient or the giver? What an interesting question.

I am not certain that I currently have anything to add other than that.

18

I don’t understand whatcha mean, here.

19

All this once again underscores the question as to why women can’t simply be clear about what they want.

20

Izzy, I don’t want to stand here and become the speaker for all women with rape fantasies, since everyone woman is different (gasp!) and I’m sure motivations can be different, but I will tell you that in almost all of my fantasies (I have about five distinct situations that I fantasize about), at some point, the rapist spends a great deal of time trying to convince me that I’m WORTH HIS TIME and indeed I’m more attractive than I think I am.

This is usually AFTER the act, AFTER the violence and humiliation and scariness of the scene.

kind of like the ending of my welder story. (which I do not consider a rape fantasy)

Very odd.