We can hope.
At the risk of getting warned, this is perhaps the stupidest thing I’ve read in quite some time. (Keep in mind I’m writing a dissertation, so I read a lot of stuff. Much of it stupid.) The dumbness in this post, it burns like capsaicin.
I’m a teacher. I teach grad students now, but I’ve taught elementary, secondary, and college students as well. Any teacher who engages in a sexual relationship - or even an overly-familiar relationship with a current student should, as you suggest be “bull-whipped.” It is an egregious abuse of power and trust. Your job is to teach, not scam on students. Now if you teach adults, I think there’s a place where it’s allowable and okay to date/have sex with former students if there is not a position imbalance. (But of course there always is. However, dating your English Lit prof from frosh year when you’re majoring in theatre is probably not the worst thing that could happen.)
The classroom is not a meet market. Issues such as favoritism come into play as well. There’s something disturbing and predatory about someone who finds a child or preteen attractive. At the very least, you would think the possibility of such an affair becoming public and submarining your career and standing in the community would deter people. Nope, apparently.
I knew a guy in college who was convicted of sexual assault (date rape). Good looking guy. I guess his victim should have loosened up - at least he wasn’t ugly! :rolleyes: The fatassed sexual predators, though - we gotta get a lid on 'em!
In the first sentence of my opening post, I stated that I was “speaking strictly from my secular side,” thus I deliberately left my spiritual counterbalancer (which is moral) turned off just so that things could be a little more fun and entertaining as we pursue the truth on the subject. But now it seems like many of you have gotten heavy and decided to attack me instead of the issue at hand. (One person even went so far as to whine that he was losing to me in a “ratings” war. Brother!)
Before I get to the substance of what I want to say, I gotta first ask, How many of you that are so horrified at the notion that I, or any other person, might kinda see some positive things about a HOT female teacher “abusing” her (willing) teenage male student were involved in laying down comments in that “How many times can you masturbate?” thread that ran a couple of weeks ago?
You can come in here and smell blood because some ******e has a beef with me from another thread, and thus the group psychology gets this holier-than-thou mob mentality going … all the while discounting the first sentence of my opening post and neglecting to realize that minors might pay this place a visit and read about your filth in the heretofore mentioned thread!
People, above all else, let’s at least try and be consistent with our “morality,” okay?
Of course, several of you are sore with me because you didn’t like it that I made it clear that homosexual stuff ain’t for me. And so that certainly added to the momentum to help get the personal attacks going.
But it’s okay, I forgive you.
Now, Friends, let’s all take a deep breath and see if we can keep things relavant to the original topic…
When that Van Halen “Hot For Teacher” video came out some years back, did any of you write letters of protest expressing your big moral outrage at something that condoned and promoted gorgeous female teachers getting it on with their poor, victimized male students? (Or did you laugh and say, “Oh yeah! I can relate to that!”?)
And what about when gym teachers (ab)use their authority to order kids to remove all their clothes and go naked by the dozens into showers, forcing them to shamefully expose themselves to one another without regard to the possibility that there might be a homosexual or some other type of pervert lurking in there among them, whilst stealing cheap thrills? Is THAT okay?
I do feel bad for the one fellow that said he was used by the neighbor lady as a “dildo on legs.” The way he put it made it very clear that there are real dangers when the perpetrator in these types of cases is so self-centered, as she obviously was. And, no doubt, as a general rule it’s not a good idea for even hot female teachers … to cross the line and teach other things outside the normal cirriculum. To maintain professional conduct is a good thing.
As far as my comment about “bull-whipping” the dirty and obese lady I used as an example goes, I was merely trying to bring a little levity to the conversation while making a point in the process. I am not at all into harming people that way (and I would think the context of my remark wouldn’t suggest that I was being serious).
There you go; I hope things will calm down now and we’ll all just relax. In a million-years from now we’ll all no doubt be looking back at our time spent in this wonderful place and wonder why we sometimes took things a little too seriously, as nothing, save for cancers, heart attacks, child molestations and wars and the like, are all that big of a deal, right?
Now what say you, my fellow Dopers?S
P.S. I was also sexually molested as a child. But it wasn’t the type that one reads about. Maybe one day we can explore it together. It could be interesting!
Fantasy vs. reality. Is this a stumbling block for you?
Please explain to me what is “inconsistent” about being okay with masturbation, and **not ** okay with sexually exploiting minors. And do try to leave your “gut” out of it, as it’s both irrelevant and a copout. Try that “reasoning mind” thing. Please. Just once, while you’re here.
This is very immature of me, but - BWAH! Thank you…carry on.
VCNJ~
That last post isn’t helping you at all BlueJeans. Discussing rape is not ‘fun and entertaining’. While some people took some cheap shots at you, most of this thread has been attacking the issues you raised. The issue at hand is that it is always wrong for a teacher to become sexually involved with a minor student. Full stop. Trying to say otherwise is what is getting you attacked.
As to your forgiveness, you can keep it. You have added nothing of worth to any discussion I have seen you in thus far and if anything it is you who should be asking forgiveness.
What I found interesting about this part of his post is, GuyNblueJeans is concerned about young people who might visit this site.
So, if they do visit, he has a problem with them seeing a thread about masturbation which is a normal part of growing up and discovering one’s self and sexual being, but *doesn’t * have a problem with these teens at “an impressionable age” reading in this thread that sexual abuse by a person in authority is alright?
May I please use an emoticon? :rolleyes:
Beavis: Hot chicks are cool.
That pretty much sums up the OP.
You left out homophobia and the oppression of women. Gotta send you back for re-grooving.
I’m waiting for the ‘Ask the GuyNblueJeans’ thread.
We can get all the crazy in there.
And then lock it.
In the meantime:
-
Mr. Jeans, why do you compartmentalize your secular side and your spiritual nature? Isn’t it possible to be religious and sexual at the same time?
-
This one is left over from another thread – I’ve forgotten which one: What evidence do you have that Ted Bundy beat Kimberly Leach (age 12) to death with a baseball bat? I’m not denying that he murdered her or that she was 12 at the time of death. What I question is the M.O.
A totally unscientific, unreasearched reply to the issues raised so far.
- 14 yr old guy with guy teacher, call me bigoted, hypocrit or whatever, but I feel that 14 is no where near old enough to have come to the conclusion “I am gay” so having gay sex with an older guy could do all sorts of damage to self esteem, self perception and sexual development - as by its nature it is a very charged act. Do note - I don’t believe the same applies to two boys of similiar ages exploring their sexuality
- 14 y/o girl with 26 year old teacher. I have seen much discussion that there is already a power imbalance inherent in sex in favour of guys over girls, age differences just exacerbate this. Further I believe that (rightly or wrongly) the female of our species tends (yes a sterotype!) to invest a lot more emotion into sex than the male. So if we were looking at statistics, if (plucking figures out of arse) 30% of the males in a 14 y/o boy 26 teacher were harmed, then it would be more like 60% of 14 y/o girl 26 y/o teacher would see the girl being harmed.
- I don’t believe that 14 y/o boy with 26 y/o teacher is per se wrong, it depends on how the teacher conducts herself, how she “controls” the situation and how she “manipulates” the boy (if at all). This doesn’t mean that I think it should be legal, just that I think that prior to LEGAL punishment being meted out, there needs to be a psychological report on the boy, and then punishment matched to “damage” (if any). At the same time I do feel that because of the breach of trust or proper relationship, the sex is a case for immediate dismissal.
Cheers!
Just out of curiosity, what’s your position on female teachers molesting female students? Because the gist of your argument *appears * to be that a 14 year old isn’t mature enough to consent to sex with a man, but IS mature enough to consent to sex with a woman. In which case your reasoning is, well… peculiar.
er…is this addressed towards me?
er no…I am saying that a 14 year old boy can agree to sex with a woman, and that the sexes are different when it comes to, well uhm, attitudes and emotional investment in sex. Not that I think this is neccessarily right, or the way it should be, just the way it IS.
I think 14 is too young for any same sex, sexual relationship outside of direct peer (age) group, regardless of sex. IMHO this arises out of pragmatism as much as any thing else. There are already enough issues (rightly or wrongly) surrounding same sex relationships, societal attitudes and self worth for any such relationship to be complicated by age and power issues. Especially at an age where sexuality and sexual self awareness are still developing.
You also seem to be hinting that my attitude is perhaps a little homophobic,
Please understand that while I fully support gay marriage, gay rights and gay adoption, I don’t neccessarily believe in homosexuality (the practise, not the feelings). I more believe that what happens in the bedroom stays in the bedroom and I am in no position to judge what someone else likes. I also believe that whatever someone else likes to do with other consenting adults has no bearing on their value as a person.
The rest of my post pretty much explains it. I think I went to pretty extensive lengths explaining that it is wrong, it is criminal – it just isn’t necessarily rape.
Except when it’s not, which is fairly often. Neither a penis nor a vagina automatically comes with a specific emotional worldview.
Had you said that 14 is too young for ANY sexual relationship outside of the peer group, I’d agree with you. The issue at hand is not homosexuality or heterosexuality, it’s the exploitation of children.
A little homophobic, sure, but my primary point was that it’s a *lot * misogynistic. You seem to be implying that women are so fundamentally lacking in power that they are unable to meaningfully consent OR exploit.
Depends. If the nun is young, hot, and lusty, then absolutely. If the nun is fat, old, and pukifying, then absolutely not. See how it works?
If the nun looks and sings like Julie Andrews, I’d hit it in a holy heartbeat.
At the risk of trying to have a serious conversation here amidst all the crazy:
The rest of your post explains that you think it’s wrong and criminal. I am asking why you wouldn’t consider it to be rape. More specifically, how would you construct a definition of the word “rape” such that a 14-year-old boy having sex with his 26-year-old female teacher would not be included but a 14-year-old girl having sex with her 26-year-old male teacher would?