Yeah… I don’t get your hip chat here.
Why don’t you solicit at college campuses?
At the risk of yet another game with you - what gives you that impression?
You don’t have teenagers? Or know any?
As to your question… I dunno.
But…that’s not part of your scholarly biblical repertoire and I really don’t have any interest in that.
You seem to know a fair amount about the NWT----enough that it would have derailed a debate between us.
While I have used a fair amount of translations, the NWT is the one I use most. (and as I pointed out, I would be comfortable using any translation)
But…as it seems that that translation is highly suspect, so why don’t we start there?
simster, you can join in. How 'bout it?
You’re not really good with sarcasm…
I have already stated that I will not continue in this game with you - you clearly have no interest in an honest or open discussion. Your veiled insults and attempts at witt are tiresome and show what you really stand for.
You truly are a credit to the WT, you truly represent what they have stood for since they began.
<blushes>
Stop buttering me up. It’s crass.
C’mon. You had me on the run with the first question. We’ll start over.
Both of you were harshly critical of the NWT. We’ll examine that translation, k?
K. Why don’t you darken collegiate doors?
Lest you offer the teenager nonsequitor again, yes, I’ve been a foster parent to 9 teens with felony charges as well as aunt to a couple awesome, loving, clever teens. College students are only teens for a couple years, are of legal age before graduation. And your faith counsels young teens in your realm to marry early and shun secondary education. So: no go.
Why don’t you darken collegiate doors?
Paragraphs 1,2: Do you have a background in psychology? Can you really speak for all the people in the world whose doors the Witnesses might approach? Besides, I have seen copies of *The Watchtower *and Awake! in laundromats and in buses and Metro Rail cars (not littering the sidewalks, which is where I sometimes find Jack Chick Tracts). Not quite a mailer, a sign or a flyer under a windshield wiper; but I used to work as a security guard at a place with a parking lot, and I don’t approve of those.
Paragraph 3: I might point out, that when I was attending El Camino College in Fall 1970, I woiuld speak out, to people in the classes, and out on the campus. I got into a dispute one time with a Jack Chick type there; and I handed out tracts–I even gave one at a booth staffed by members of the SDS, who for all I know read it.
Paragraph 4; This is an example of a point of mine that misfired. If I gave the impression that there was a connection between this verse and the traditional clergy-laity division of Christendom I committed a serious blunder and I would be remiss not to admit it.
One of the posters severely chided the Witnesses for adhering to the policies of the “elders,” as they put it. This is not the first time other organizations or individuals have criticized the Witnesses for what I suppose to be lack of independent thinking; but years ago the Witnesses’ literature pointed out that the mainstream churches have either held to their “old time religion” whose connection to the Bible is questionable, or they have turned modernistic to appeal to a larger audience. Hence the allusion to the passage in Isaiah.
Paragraph 5: See Paragraphs 1, 2.
One must wonder about your parenting skills if so many of them are in trouble with the law.
Whats up with that? 
I realize that what I’m about to say is probably going to be ignored, but the above is patently false. I work in marketing, and the person-to-person approach is BY FAR the most effective way to sell. It dwarfs direct mail and media advertising, and the difference is not even close. It’s usually prohibitively expensive in business situations, but the Witnesses and the LDS have effectively made personal appeals part and parcel of their culture, so they’re able to put missionaries in the field for either nothing (in the case of the Witnesses) or the cost of bare subsistance (in the case of the LDS). It may annoy you, but this sort of missionary activity hasn’t persisted for generations because it doesn’t work.
To give a non-religious example: a friend of mine did a rotation as an Army recruiter. When the end of the month was looming and it looked like they weren’t going to make their quota, he would start going door-to-door in working-class neighborhoods. This always worked. They didn’t do it all the time because of the psychological impact of being repeatedly screamed at and chased down the walk (which struck me as odd, considering my friend was a combat veteran), but they could easily quadruple their productivity by using door-to-door tactics.
Um…he’s a foster parent. The trouble in question was pre-Troppus.
Yea, I figured that.
That was my Michael Scott imitation.
Irrelevant. dougie_monty makes statements and makes citations to the Bible to back up his assertions. I read his citations and they do not support his statements. Just like any other debate.
No, I do not have a background in psychology. I have personal experience with how I feel being approached at home, I have awareness of how LDS and JWs are perceived in popular culture for their techniques of visiting door-to-door, and I have the statements made in this thread of how people react to JWs at the door. All of which state that most people do not wish to be approached at home.
Interesting anecdote, which does not really address Troppus’s question. Troppus has asserted that JW’s actively avoid college campuses and dorms. Is this true? You claim that you have not avoided college campuses. Still, is there any rebuttal to the claim that JWs as a group intentionally avoid colleges? And if so, why is that?
Thank you for clarifying.
So once again you fail to address the actual point and deflect to a non-answer. Your cited Bible verses say nothing about people wanting JWs to visit them door-to-door.
[QUOTE=Troppus]
If you know the reason why campuses and surrounding complexes are avoided I’m genuinely curious.
[/QUOTE]
No, I don’t know the actual reason. I don’t even know if what you assert is true. I am merely pointing out there are a variety of possible explanations that I can think of that negate the conclusion you draw. But I didn’t actually offer them as guesses because I don’t actually know.
I understand that. But look at your own statements - it has the highest response rate, but also leads to being screamed at and chased down the walk. When **raindog **made the statement that JWs do not wish to waste their time with the uninterested, I pointed out that they are going to be running into a high percentage of uninterested people by going door-to-door. Those other techniques have a far lower response rate, true, but have the virtue that the responses received are usually genuinely interested. That was the point.
One of the things that interests me is how subjective beliefs can be so internally compelling that the line between objectivity and subjectivity become so blurred that they became ‘truth.’
And so it has been my experience here that many people who are essentially witnessing---------sharing their subjective beliefs, even if sometimes using them to lay siege to other subjective beliefs------don’t see them as subjective but "truth’ or reality.
Look, there are few JWs who post here. I’ve taken pains more than once to share the exact procedure-----which is painless and quick------on how one can easily be put on the ‘do not call’ list.
Invariably, that is unsatisfying and in every thread there are those in the grandstands who insist that it isn’t quite enough that their particular home won’t be canvassed by JWs, but that* JWs shouldn’t be canvassing anyone’s home.*
Setting aside the ignorance associated with the fact that it is an effective form of proselytizing, and the ignorance that there may be both a biblical and historical precedent that requires this proselytizing as a measure of their faith, and even the [apparent] ignorance that these types of freedoms are the lubricant of a free society, and should be tolerated if not celebrated, it is more than apparent that when Troppus et al stop speaking for themselves (and their like minded family members) and presume to speak for “many rational, reasonable beings” it isn’t just presumptuous, arrogant, and incorrect, but he’s witnessing to us.
With all due respect, you don’t know what you’re talking about. And, I don’t mean that in a snarky way. If one spends a little time in these threads one comes away with an impression that doesn’t play in real life.
StusBlues was spot on, although the issue of effectiveness is not the reason JWs go door to door. Message boards are well known for hyperbole, exaggeration, and outright fabrication.
Overwhelmingly JWs face abject apathy. Indifference. An infinitesimal amount of people will be angry. Actually a larger percentage will show at least some interest, and a fair amount of people will be at least receptive to some conversation.
Yet time and time and time and time and time and time again we’ve read posts that often explicitly state—if not implicitly suggest-----that “I don’t like the JWs or their message and I’m simply not just representative of most people, but I implicitly speak for all people and we don’t want JWs coming to our houses.”
Thats the hallmark of witnessing. They’re just not very good at it. 
The Mormons (LDS) also field their missionaries at no cost. They make the missionaries PAY the church for the privilege of going door to door. I paid $400/month or $9,600 for the whole two years. Now, with inflation and so forth, I believe it’s $450/month. Ten grand and you still have to buy your own bike helmet. I wish I had the balls to invent a church like that.
However, I disagree that missionary work is particularly effective. It’s miles better than direct mail or advertising, yes. If all a church did was put an ad in the Yellow Pages, they’re going to be waiting a long time for those coffers to fill up. But going door to door is a still a numbers game. You knock on 5,000 doors and eventually you’ll find someone in a bad enough place in their life to change religions.
They should learn from Catholics. Reproduction and lack of birth control is where the real numbers are, not this waking people up on Saturday shit.
I meant to answer this before and we/I got sidetracked:
Theres no easy answer to that. It’s probably based on population density. the average congregation is around 125 people. When they get much larger than 250ish they split, and create 2 congregations.
oops. yes. see above.
No. each congregation has a “territory”. (think parish) They do not overlap. you live in one specific congregation’s territory.
Maybe one. Maybe two. Call the KH closest to you around 9:30 a.m. Tell them your address. Either you’re in their territory, or they’ll likely be able to tell you whose territory you’re in.
Generally no, and never informally. if you live in a rural area, occasionally there may be an effort to work “unassigned territory.”
If you live anywhere a city or 'burb you’re likely in someone’s assigned territory.
There is no national registry. It’s always local, and your address is in the territory of a single congregation. They take the "do not calls’ very seriously, and while mistakes sometimes happen, they work very hard to respect that list.
No. You might need to call two of them. But it will be easy to find out in whose territory you’re in.
Considering that the watchtower org website claims that they spent 1,604,764,248 hours “preaching” (yes - thats BILLIONs of hours claimed) in 2010 (gotta wonder what qualifies as preaching, but that is another thread) and that resulted in 294,368 baptisms - many of which I’m sure were not first contacted in 2010 - that has to be pretty much the worst ROI imaginable. Even if you factor in the difference betweem ‘members’ and ‘Memorial attendance’ (the JW Easter ‘Celebration’) - there is only a .6% response rate (if you were to assume that all the hours spent were JUST to get folks to the Memorial, and we know thats not the case).
Now, if you consider that the major focus of the WT is not in conversion (read raindogs post for evidence - they only spend time on the interested) - but in getting donations and placing literature - that puts a different perspective on it - I’m sure lots of those doors result in a dollar or two going back to the org - thats alot of money - without any real effort on anyones behalf.
If they spent even a portion of that time helping the poor or the needy or actually helping anyone, wihout the preaching (think soup kitchens, homeless work, etc) - then they might have a claim to being a bonafide christian group - but blindly going to doors and pretending that means something - well ------ I’ll leave that to the reader to decide.
Thanks for the clarification. Good to know.
Oh, yes, and that’s why it’s so prohibitively expensive. I will argue that it’s effective, though, on the scale the LDS practices it. For example:
*Almost every Mormon spends two years doing missionary work and brings in, say, ten converts during that time. (I’m making that number up, but stay with me here.)
*Of those ten, say one-fifth actually stick with it. That’s two livelong converts for every missionary.
*This nets out to a nearly 200% net gain for the church in the span of a lifetime. That’s effective.
You can adjust my inputs above as you wish. I’m betting that you’re still talking geometric growth from missionary work alone.