You’re exactly right simster. The reader will decide.
You’ve come here and shared your beliefs forcefully and passionately.
While your assistants Larry and Sergey may have led you you to believe that your story is more compelling than perhaps it really is, there will be many more threads that will allow you to refine your style of witnessing.
Indeed, the reader will decide.
Good point. I should have mentioned that Mormons invented the reproduction method of geometric church growth. Polygamy did wonders for literally creating thousands of adherents ex nihilio. Mormons are still under lots of pressure to mate early and often, but family size has been constantly creeping downwards with higher education rates and societal pressures. It’s just that a million Mormons in Utah can’t compete with, say, the Philippines in pure numbers.
ETA: This was in response to StuBlues.
Ya know, it would seem that if certain people think nothing of showing up unannounced and uninvited and demands the time and attention of others, those people would tend to be forthcoming and informative. I have not found that to be the case in this thread.
A quick recap just to make sure I walk away from this thread with the exact same information I had going in. (Thanks for nothing, is what I’m saying here.)
Why do you knock on doors?
*So we can reach the most people. *
But your numbers are dismal. Must not be working. Since it annoys some people and you are forced to use the powers of the devil in order to wrangle legal permission to ignore no soliciting signs, seems like you’d follow the models of successful churches.
*Well, we feel that quality is better than quantity. *
Oh. So why do you ignore a large segment of the population ages 17-25 who are concentrated in an easily accessible location?
*
…*
Since your current method of proselytizing doesn’t seem to be working, and you are greeted with apathy and occasionally resentment, and since you are forced to use the court system to force your foot in the door, why risk alienating more people? Why not find another way to reach those in need of your particular brand of faith?
*Because our Bible says we must. *
But it doesn’t say that.Even your own recent translation added words in order to justify your door knocking ministry. I thought Witnesses believed the Word of God to be inerrant. So why change it? Won’t that piss Him off?
*Well, we adduce that we are supposed to knock on doors to share our beliefs. *
Okay, well, since the inerrant Word of God is open to interpretation… do you also share meals with outcasts? Wait, I already know the answer to that.
So… as I was saying. Your method isn’t working: your numbers prove that. I’m suspicious that you don’t really care how many people join the church, what with your limited venue seating and all. I’m also unsure how the purposeful exclusion of a healthy, thoughtful, impressionable segment of society supports either the growth of the individual Witness or the Kingdom Hall.
This is humor. You can tell because it makes people smile or laugh.
This is awkward. You can tell because it makes people cringe.
Thank you to the Witnesses in this thread for opening my eyes to the need for an open mind and an open door to your ministry. Without this thread I would never have known this statistic: “Jehovah’s Witnesses have the lowest retention rate of any religious tradition. Only 37% of all those who say they were raised as Jehovah’s Witnesses still identify themselves as Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
[Quoted from this recent Pew Study]
(Religious Landscape Study (RLS) | Pew Research Center)
Count me in among those who are receptive to your visits, because odds are 2 out of 3 of the visiting Witnesses will need some outside support when they leave and find themselves shunned and utterly alone in the world. My door is always open.
Troppus you seem to have been reduced to playing both sides of the argument.
Do you by chance like one man plays?
I’m one of the overwhleming majority of indifferent and apathetic people you mentioned. I’m not confrontational by nature and I’d prefer to get rid of door to door hawkers as quickly as possible, rather than yell or pull some sort of juvenile stunt. It’s a very very minor annoyance, but it is an annoyance, especially when I have to walk down three flights of stairs to get to the door. Again I’m not wailing and ngnashing my teeth over it, but it has always struck me as rude.
I’ve only been bothered by Mormons and JW’s a handful of times, less than five IIRC. If it was on a weekly basis I might be more confrontational.
I don’t think you need to claim access to some sort of universal truth to believe that most people find unwanted interruptions to their time at home annoying, at least a little bit. Most people will be polite about it, but most people will also prefer not to be bothered. I don’t think this is an extraordinary or controversial claim.
If it helps the one JW I know in real life is a very kind woman who has helped make my work day go a little easier. She broached her religion with me once, but never brought it up again when she saw I wasn’t interested.
Troppus, You know it’s quite funny that you’ve been insulting and vitriolic to JWs from the outset of this thread (and would be pleased to summarize them in a handy cut-and-paste cheat sheet an a standalone post if you’d like) but you end every post with an offer to hug me (or my kind) or make me a cup of tea or wash my feet.
How 'bout you take a deep breath and ease up on the bile?
We’ll wash our own feet.
You may find it unusual, but I agree with every single word you wrote.
Oh i get it - this must be more of that sarcasm of yours - where you are trying to claim victory or something. I have no idea who Larry and Sergey is in this case, but they would be far better friends then the stooge you are.
The only thing you have proven in this thread is that you are not to be trusted, that you are not willing to discuss anything openly or honestly, and that you will outright lie when it suits you.
I will remind you that you have yet to refute any of the information that I have posted regarding the WT’s history or beliefs, and that when asked an honest question, you duck and run - or give meaningless sarcastic answers - every single time.
If you call that a victory, you certainly earned it.
As I said earlier, don’t hurt your arm patting yourself on the back.
So, you are implying that all of my info comes from google - let me put it on the record here - I purchased, read and researched all of the information I post here - I bought sets of the “Studies in Scriptures” - I bought the majority of the Rutherford “Rainbow”, etc and so on - I bought the various tracts and pubs going ALL the way back to the beginning, had the NWT in the various editions, the Diaglott, etc - Watchtower and Awake bound volumes and personally validated the different articles and items that I link to on the web for the cites I post. I have since liquidated the majority of that library as I no longer have the need for it - although I do still have a copy of the “Finished Mystery” and a couple of other books laying about - it was a curiosity at the time (about a decade ago) as I said earlier. I do have the current WT CD and a copy of the Elders ‘Secret’ Book.
Not a hard thing todo - you can thank Ebay instead of Google. Beyond that - if you can’t refute it - who cares if Google has the ability to find the information - deal with the information instead of attacking the poster.
But you are a mindless drone - so you don’t know how to do it any differently.
I guarantee you have done no such research of your own - I guarantee I have forgotten more then you will ever know or understand.
and with that - I am done.
Did you find the secret handshake on page 33 of the secret book? We’d be in big trouble if that got out.
To prove it to you - since that is a vieled attempt at calling me a liar -
The Title of the book is “Shepherd the Flock of God” - ks10-E - the front of references 1 peter 5:2 and has a picture of a shepherd with some sheep with a tree on the left side.
The first two pages are letters to the “Bodies of Elders” and the fourth paragraph of the first letter (dated August 23, 2010) states
You have alluded a few times about the NWT and your knowledge, I presume. (you know, a few posts ago when I was trying to get you to believe Dr. Suess was a translator, and when Troppus went from '…the combo of my relatively unbiased secondary education in Theology,…" to “…I have no such degree, and even abandoned a minor in Theology after becoming incredibly bored with the subject…” when she asked to meat on that .edu bone)
Are you able to disabuse me of my affinity with it?
Pls advise, because I’d love to get your thoughts.
Go Google them for yourself - and then research what you find - you might be surprised if you do so.
You can do your own work from here on out. As I said earlier - I will not continue any kind of ‘discussion’ with you until you prove that you are going to be open and honest.
That will take some work on your part.
ETA - my intent here was never to 'disabuse you your affinity for it" - you can choose to believe whatever you want - but if you want to call your chosen religion something it is not (“God’s chosen org”), then I will take you to task with thier history and thier flip flops - then if you choose to still follow them - you atleast do it with knowledge instead of blind devotion. - This is much like you tell your new converts they should do with thier own religions.
So you do know the secret handshake?
Tell the truth. This is important. I’m not kidding this time.
I noted StusBlues’ assertion that one-on-one is a more effective way of ‘getting the word out’ whether Acts 20:20 was a command or not. (Rather humorously, I once found another angle to this. A woman of my parents’ generation once told me she wanted to eat at a Thai restaurant not far from her home, and went inside, but they said they couldn’t seat her because they only served even-numbered groups. She reacted to that by saying that she would go out and speak to people on the sidewalk and invite someone to have lunch with her at her expense if that was the restaurant’s policy. They backed down. And she wasn’t even a Witness–she was an organist for the local Episcopalian church! 
)
I have used quite a few Bible translations, including the King James Version, the New English Bible, the Living Bible, and even translations into Esperanto and other languages; and I have a copy of Strong’s Concordance. I’ve read the Bible through five times, and often kept two or three other versions close by to compare while reading. (My Bible citations can usually be found in any version.)
As for Luke 21:8, I know what it says. The fact that Jesus warned of false prophets or false religions is not* ipso facto *proof that the Witnesses are false.
Somehow, it seems that, to mix a metaphor, this thread is barking up the wrong tree. If you Dopers object so strongly to the Witnesses going door-to-door, why not pose these questions to them at the door instead of keeping them on the SDMB? You’re hiding your light under a bushel basket. 
what a jumble - to address the only thing in here that appears to be addressed to me -
[QUOTE=Luke 21:8 NIV]
8 He replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Luke 21:8 KJV]
And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
[/QUOTE]
So, Jesus’s clear words are to watch out for people claiming that they are special* and that the time is near.
Don’t follow them.
The JW - since thier inception - have claimed, and continue to claim both.
This has nothing to do with “false prophets” nor is any other “proof” needed - its a clear and concise warning and directive. If you read the full chapter in context, the meaning of this passage does not change.
*Christ is the English term for the Greek Χριστός (Khristós) meaning “the anointed one” -
Nice little trap you attempt to set there -
I have been honest this entire thread - I have nothing to gain by deceit.
To answer your question - Nothing that I have found in my study of the WT or the JW would indicate that such a thing exists - they also don’t appear to be the type of group that would need (or use) one. That being said, Russell was rumored to be associated with the Masons (Cross/Crown symbology, his tombstone, etc) and they are known for having “secret handshakes” - so perhaps that is what you are alluding to.
Listen, I haven’t seen the book, but I know a previous book had it in there. And I was quite close to one elder who said that it is only used when traveling.
If you know an elder, or you’re in an environment where you’re with other elders and some/most know each other than it is not needed.
If you’re across the country, however, theres no way to really know whether a person is a JW elder or not. So, its only used for traveling.
You really ought to read your own literature - You’re only an elder in your own appointed congregation - anywhere else, you’re just another witness - so there would be no need for a ‘special handshake’ or any other form of recognition for traveling elders.
Its also safe to assume that the Circuit and Traveling Overseers are introduced by “known” elders/overseers and don’t just show up unannounced. In the case of an elder moving, they have a special form that is mailed in advance to the new congregation. Likely a similar form is sent for the overseers as well.
I don’t currently have a copy of the previous manual handy - I can go digging if you really want - but somehow, I think that elder was pulling your leg - or it might be a practice that has been done away with. It is not mentioned in the ‘new’ manual that I have in front of me.
(This feels a bit odd, me teaching you about the inner workings of your own group).