Re: Jehovah's witnesses at the door

Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
81

Though you did not address me, I would like to explain why your persistence is being met with opposition, (at least on my part) without entering into a debate about beliefs you hold dear.

I find many of the practices of both the Mormon and Jehovah’s Witness faith to be so objectionable that I want no practitioners of either faith in my house, on my porch, or in my driveway. Now, if by some amount of reasoning, personal revelation, or life experience you should leave the church and find yourself shunned by your family and fellow church members by all means: knock, and ask for shelter, support, or reassurance. I will welcome you into my home with an open mind and with open arms.

A salesperson on a mission to convert my family to a belief I find disagreeable is a nuisance and a trespasser. A stranger in need of assistance is always welcome regardless of the hour or day of the week.

82

Clear? Clear how? From what source?

Today I got a frightful example of what “disruption” really is. I was riding in a bus, southbound on Hawthorne Boulevard in Torrance, CA; this is a large arterial street which is heavily traveled much of the day. At one point the bus had to make a long detour, which ended on the street I was going to. I finished my business there and had a long wait for a bus back. The police closed Hawthorne Boulevard for several miles.
As it turned out, two motorcycle policemen had collided with a car. One suffered a broken leg but the other had a fatal skull fracture. It was on the local news at 11 p.m.
Now that is what I call a disruption–mostly so for the unfortunate motorcycle cop and his surviving family. :frowning:
The Witnesses calling on you at your door are perhaps a petty distraction taking two or three minutes of your valuable time. Not much comparison, is there? :rolleyes:

83

Yes, since your appalling rudeness and disrespect don’t involve someone dying, it’s not a disruption at all. :rolleyes:

And do people really often let you bully them into giving you three minutes? I can’t imagine it taking longer than 6 seconds from door-open to door-close to permanently dismiss a Jesus claque from the property.

84

Well said. I wanted to say it, but couldn’t find a nice way.

I’ve found creative ways to get rid of JW’s and have fun with then because every time they’ve come to my door a simple “I’m not interested” had been met with some version of “Well, take this pamphlet then,” or “Are you sure? Because x, y, and z…”

If I go straight to my list of “How to dismiss the JW”, they leave quickly and without trying to leave their recyclables.

85

How long did it take for the Witnesses to show up at the widow’s door? My sister’s first husband died in a traffic accident. They were at her door the day the obit was published. I had another friend who died (natural causes), and they showed up at his wife’s door within a day of the obit’s publication. You’re right. Not much comparison. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

86

That’s fine, but they don’t know that. They have no way of knowing that if you don’t tell them ahead of time. They are not being rude by simply engaging in what is widely considered to be civil behavior just because you personally find it objectionable. It’s only if they persist in the face of your objection that it becomes rude.
Powers &8^]

87

My mother had JWs show up at the front door immediately after both of my grandmothers’ funerals (a year or two apart). One of them walked in without asking; my mother found them standing in the front hall! (The door was open so people could get in as they got back from the cemetery) It was clear they were reading the obits to determine when to show up. In both cases they hinted they’d like to come in and join the family in eating the food the parish ladies were setting out for the mourners. I’ve heard many complaints from others locally over the last decade about similar JW incidents.

88

OK, I’ve just joined the naysayers. This is straight up wrong, and entirely worthy of threats with swords, dildoes, or Bieber CDs.

89

A few of my favorite Religious Sales stories.

(Bwahhh hahhh-hahh hahh…)

Sometime in the early 90’s the favorite tactic in these parts was for the JW’s to hook you right away with the opening line:

“Wouldn’t you like to live in a perfect, peaceful world?”

An instructor in an adult education class I was taking at the time told me he had no problem replying:

Well, no, I think that would be awfully boring."

For some strange reason, the folks who approached him didn’t see an opportunity for a scintillating discussion on religious views.

And he was just being completely honest with them. Go figure.

Another acquaintance told me that he was a former Witness. When he decided that his considerably lengthy (apparently) involvement with them was doing strange things to his mind, he undertook a radical approach to disengagement.

He was fortunate in his work-and-lodging situation. He could hide out indefinitely from his former companions since he worked in the same tall building that he lived in. He could even eat all his meals “out” in the building. He continuously listened to rock music for at least a month to drive all the compulsive thoughts of religion from his mind.

(End of prologue)

A rather pushy JW gal approached his already somewhat-involved girlfriend while he was embracing her from behind on a street corner. (This was before I had met either of them, and I gather that it was the same gal who approached her in my presence and started laying a trip on her on how she had received much from “the Kingdom” and now it was time to give back.)

The pushy JW gal decided to start an edifying discussion with her poor fish by rhetorically asking her if she knew what Psalm ### said. The expectation was of course that a newbie would not know, that presumably one would be curious, or at least too polite to walk away from the encounter or try to change the subject, and further early brainwashing would ensue.

The boyfriend plainly responded as though the question were directed to him.

“Yes, I know exactly what Psalm XXX says. It says: …”

And then he watched with pleasure as Miss Pushy’s jaw dropped to the ground.

I also have a story about someone being honest with LDS missionaries about her decision to reject the faith after careful consideration and prayer. But that’s all for now.

Now, here’s a recommendation as to what to say at the door:

Say, you know, this (JW religious sales discussion opening) sounds very interesting. But this is not a good time. Let me call you and schedule a meeting. I’m going to get back to the nice Mormon fellows about a time that’s also good for them, so that we can all talk together.

:stuck_out_tongue:

90

I don’t mind talking to missionaries at the door, but they usually don’t like talking to me. The last pair of Jehovah’s Witnesses that came to my door left after 15 minutes saying “You just want to argue.” Just when I thought the conversation was getting interesting!

91

The fact that Witnesses or Mormons are uninvited should be a clue. I’m not sure if you are pretending not to hear the protests here because you enjoy the argument or if you have been so indoctrinated against opposition that you truly believe what you are saying. If a very persuasive atheist forermed with literature bearing proof of scientific facts about the age of the earth that contradicted your own beliefs, evidence supporting evolution, and snappy answers to objections appeared at your door while you were in the shower and peppered your 13 year old daughter with scientific facts that convincingly contradicited the teachings of your chosen faith, how would you feel about the intrusion?

92

I was clutching at a straw when I wrote “two or three minutes” as elapsed time when we, as Witnesses, would go to the door and be told “I’m not interested” by a householder, and leave. Maybe I should have carried a stopwatch :rolleyes: with me (but a senior Witness who went with me said “We’re not running a race”.)

The mention of the obituary column carries a ghoulish connotation and is an insult to my intelligence. I have followed the obits on a regular basis since about 1972, on my own. Unfortunately, before then we took the Los Angeles Times, which I consider too metropolitan, instead of the more localized *Daily Breeze. * When I was considering buying a car, in 1969, I went to the home of a foirmer classmate to ask about his car–and his father told me Mike had been killed in Vietnam some time before. :frowning: Mostly I follow the obituaries to look for names of other people I went to school with oir knew frfom a place where I worked (including yard customers and such). The last thing I would think of doing is approaching people I don’t know just after a death in the family. The wife of a cousin of mine died yesterday–and we would considere it unthinkable even to try to contact his brother (who lives in Las Vegas) at this time.

93

Once again, the key to this discussion is right there.

What makes you think it is “widely considered to be civil behaviour” by anyone except the ill-mannered people who sell religion from door to door?

Visits from Mormons, LDs and similar folk are widely disliked by normal people. I have never heard anyone speak well of them after a call. Normal people resent the intrusion into their lives, and the disruption to which we have referred. We are taught to be courteous by our parents, so we don’t usually shout abuse, wave a sabre or unleash the leopards. That does not mean we consider it civil to call on us without invitation.

You have ignored my previous suggestion. If you genuinely believe that your presence is welcome, then that is easily demonstrated. Before you make your next ten calls, write to the occupants and ask for their permission to call. You don’t have to spend money on a stamp - just drop a note in the door.

You know, and I know, what the percentage of positive responses will be. And it makes nonsense of your assertions.

94

There seems to have been a cultural shift in the last ~60 years. I get the impression that door-to-door salespeople used to be far more common - pop culture is full of references from the '50s. They would sell vacuums, or encyclopedias, or other sundry items. Nowadays, other than local kids selling items for school/organizations, door-to-door salespeople are far less frequent. I’ve been hit by a few - mainly in my apartment it was college-age kids selling magazine subscriptions supposedly as a part of some contest or something. At my house, it has been a) a couple people trying to get me to switch my electricity provider, b) someone trying to get me to let them install/activate a security system on my home “as a limited demo unit to show other neighbors”. My parents had someone selling radiant barrier installations to homes.

These folks are just as intrusive and annoying as missionaries. I made the mistake last time of engaging the guy, and ended up getting suckered in by mildly deceptive practices. Ended up taking ~ an hour and making me late for something. It reinforced my conviction to send these people on their way. Send me some literature and maybe I’ll consider it, but don’t interrupt me at home, especially to give me a special offer but not in writing for me to have time to evaluate and comparison shop.*

Consider this: how many of your friends do you just show up on their doorstep and expect to go in and visit on the spot? Most people call first, even if they don’t expect the other person to feel like they have to clean house or anything. How many of your neighbors would you go over and knock on their door just to chat? I mean, see them in the yard, say hello, okay, but go over at some random time and knock on the door? And these are people you know.

How acceptable does it sound to you to drive to some random neighborhood, walk up to some stranger’s house, and knock on the door, and ask them to let you tell them about your hobby/career/favorite sports team? Doesn’t that sound ridiculous?

So why should proseletyzers expect better? Because at some time in the past our society was more open to random strangers knocking on our door? Because there’s just no other way for people to find out about Jesus? Because you don’t accept other common cultural practices like birthdays and holidays, so therefore you are exempt from respecting cultural attitudes about strangers knocking on the door?

Think about how people feel about telemarkers - cold callers ringing you up at home. You know how annoying it is to get a random phone call from a stranger trying to sell you something? You know how much hatred there is for telemarketers, especially when they won’t take a polite “no” as an answer and work you over repeatedly if you don’t shout “PUT ME ON YOUR DO NOT CALL LIST!” and then hang up before they have a chance to get another word in edgewise, because if you don’t they’ll keep trying to convince you to buy their thingy? You know how there are national “Do not call” lists and laws designed specifically to keep people from calling you on the phone? Well, how much more annoying do you think it is to have that random pushy stranger standing on your doorstep, invading your personal space, observing you when perhaps you don’t feel presentable, and potentially making you feel threatened by seeing a stranger at the door?**

Maybe we need to institute a National “Do not Visit” list, whereby anyone wishing to make residential sales first has to confirm the recipient is open to said sales calls. NO, let’s make it an “opt in” system, so people have to sign up on a list if they want to be subjected to surprise sales visits, and if they aren’t on the list you can’t call on them. And specifically not exempt religious proseletyzers.

Bottom line: cultural attitudes have shifted, and strangers knocking on your door are considered rude. If they have a legitimate need (car broke down, running from an axe-murderer, etc) then the rudeness is mitigated/forgiven, but harassing you to consider some random religion is not a legitimate need.

  • I know, these guys are trying to get the commission, and if they leave literature and I call a phone line or mail in or online register for the product, they may not get that credit. Still, it’s annoying.

** Just for example, push-in robberies are known to happen. Our society is a lot more stranger cautious than it used to be.

95

Well perhaps you are a bit more considerate than some of your brethren. You’ll just have to wear the reputation of the worst of your members. That’s what comes from group association - you get associated with the worst behaviors, too. (Maybe you should discuss this at your Kingdom Hall, and spread the word internally?)

96

I am not particularly persuasive–you can see that from the way other Dopers have batted back my statements in this thread. And it would be more difficult still for me to attempt to change a policy so closely associated with a Biblical authorization: Acts 20:20, which even reads “from house to house” in the KJV.

97

I can see your problem - you are working off a text written in an obsolete language during the Roman Empire. You must expect the software to be out of date.

More modern knowledge upgrades are available from good book stores or from online retailers.

98

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99

This is a great point and very true. Door-to-door calls are only going to get less and less socially acceptable. I think this is a large reason Mormons are trying to get away from it (that, and the fact that it’s terribly ineffective). Unfortunately for the JWs, door to door canvassing seems to be a tenet of their faith and dutifully accepted as a trial to be borne.

We shouldn’t forget that while the JWs and Mormons don’t like the hostility provoked by door-to-door proselyting, they do like the bonding and camaraderie that abuse provides. Getting publicly mocked does wonders to cement group cohesion and engender group loyalty. Not to mention reaffirming distrust of outsiders.

100

dougie_monty, I wasn’t trying to suggest that it is up to you to singlehandedly start a campaign to stop JW door-to-door visits. My comment was meant to apply to the practice of reading obits and showing up at the families’ houses during funerals/wakes/etc. Even you agree that is abhorrent. Finding out if any of your local members do that and discouraging the practice if they do does not seem beyond your abilities.