[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Doc Nickel *
A drunken “hunter” has an accident and injures someone. Why is this a “gun” accident?[/quot]
Because a gun is involved.
Because if he was riding a giraffe it’d be a giraffe accident.
Ya know, its not just the alcohol. i’ve had over 15 freakin drinks in me (at once) and would never ever even at that point leave anyone to die out in the snow.
Unless they were my sworn enemy.
People like this give alcohol a bad name.
Uh-huh. And the cause of the accident is…?
I get your point, but if we called them “People accidents” the evening news would become horrifically bland.
The gun fired.
[sub]Duh. The things you got to 'splain to some people.[/sub]
And am I the only one who thinks your response to NC was a bit on the jerkish side considering what she went through? (And considering that nurses don’t write the prescriptions.)
Precisely my point, Punks m’lad. I was worried about you for a moment.
My answer was indeed intended to be jerkish, as you put it. The OP insinuated that the fellow in question was an inveterate asshole and needed to be buried under a septic tank somewhere with a bullet in his head because he was a snowmachine rider.
Sadly, I know one or two riders who feel a beer or six somehow improves the day’s riding, but I know hundreds who wouldn’t think of drinking while riding. Like the two crews who went out last year as avalanche rescue- the Troopers are woefully lacking on good snowmachine equipment, and at least three organized clubs were on the scene and searching for two hours before the Troops arrived.
I once spent six hours- SIX!- in a hospital room waiting to have what turned out to be a kidney infection (and rather painful) diagnosed. In that time no nurse showed, no orderly checked in, and once I found out the doctor I’d come to see had gone home for the night, I left and went elsewhere.
Now, should I then assume that all nurses and doctors are so lax and forgetful? After all, I can find any number of news articles about surgical equipment being left in patients, or doctors abandoning the surgery to go cash a check.
I am in no way asking for any sort of retraction or apology, NurseCarmen, but please understand that simply because the man happened to be riding a snowmachine, he was not representative of the sport. (It’s on ESPN, therefore it’s a sport. I haven’t seen ice fishing on ESPN yet. 
)
You know, we have a word for that…
Hey! That’s not funny! My whole family died in a giraffe accident! Oh, the blood … the pieces of neck EVERYWHERE …
-Yep. We also have words for people who make broad, sweeping generalizations about entire classes of otherwise law-abiding individuals.
If she’d seen a young African-American male on the street ostensibly making a drug buy, and came here and insinuated that all black people were crack-smokin’ drug users, this board would rightly demand her head on a pike to fly from the battlements as a warning to others.
But I suppose tarnishing the nations’ estimated 24 million snowmobile owners as “drunken fucknuggets” due to the reprehensible actions of one particular fucknugget who happened to be riding a snowmachine at the time, is okay because, you know, they’re snowmachiners. And you know what they say about those types…
I agree the individuals’ actions were reprehensible and deserving of at least some form of punishment (although it can be said the victim was wholly responsible) but I find it odd that three invective-laden paragraphs were spent decrying the fellow’s sport, choice of colorful clothing and mode of transportation, and about one-and-a-half sentences that sort of mentioned the alcohol consumption. All as if the fact the fellow was on a snowmachine had considerably more to do with the death than the alcohol intake.
Yes, the man died from snowmobile-related injuries. But was the snowmachine the CAUSE of the accident? Are we back to the old “matches cause arson” arguments?
On the other hand, if you’d been there trying to coax a dead or dying person back to life, knowing the odds are poor, I think you would have a pretty jaundiced view for at least a few days, it’s called being human.
Politically correctness may be all well and good, but it would be a cruel pactitioner of it who could not find it in their heart to understand the reaction of the person in the OP.
Theres being a normal stressed out caring person pushed too far, and then theres just being an ucaring asshole, I don’t think you will find the latter in the OP.
Doc You are currentl;y coming across exactly as the sort of person you are trying to denigate, ie an unthinking and uncaring individual.
I’d have a jaundiced view of drunk assholes, not a huge segment of people distinquished only by the winter activity they choose to pursue.
Mmmm, I’m not seeing that. I bristled a bit myself when I saw the thread title and some of the lanquage the OP used to describe snowmobilers. My background - I’m an EMT of many years, a senior nursing student, and in my youth in Connecticut I also rode a snowmobile quite a bit with my family.
It’s amazing the stupid accidents people can get into, especially when they are drunk, and I’ve tended to many a victim of many a stupid drunken accident. And it ain’t the fact that they drive a car/snowmobile/skydive/whatever that makes them, in the OP’s words, “an utter fucknut”. It’s the fact that they happen to be an utter fucknut that makes them an utter fucknut. And there’s utter fucknuts participating in every known human activity, along with the majority of people who do any given activity in a safe and responsible manner.
You are a credit to the boards casdave. I think that is it exactly. It’s tough to not be jaded when every night before sleep I try to force an image of one Mr. Olson out of my head. It wasn’t a pretty site. As I mentioned, his helmet was ripped off his head. It didn’t leave easily.
My ire is left for a man or men that I have no knowledge of, other than that they are snowmobilers. Doc has a bit of a point. 95% of snowmobilers give a bad name to that other, decent, non-fucknut 5%. 
It would seem some go out of their way to give a bad name. Here in Minnesota, a few bays in areas ofVoyageurs National Park were closed to snowmobilers, due to the wildlife in the area. Those bays experienced more snowmobile traffic in the time they were closed then the surrounded bays that were not off limitssorry, I can’t find an exact cite, but most Minnesotans will recall this was in the news a few years back. They also were in the news a few years back for, in more than one instance, purposly running down wolves. It’s just that kind of thing that sticks in my craw.
So I was left to vent. So I vented on a place where flaming is common, and blowing things out of proportion to make a point common place. So, I’ll narrow it down to a few facts for the doc.
[ul]
- One or more fucknuts were snowmobiling in the area last Friday.
II. I have met several snowmobilers who are drunken fucknuts.
C. Dear god, do you really find those get-ups attractive?
[/ul]
Listen doc, in the area I was in, families no longer snowmobile much. And if they do, it is only during the short daylight hours. The locals keep the sleds around for utilitarian purposes, and don’t venture out on the weekends. Once night falls at around 5 p.m, the trails are a danger.
I’ll admit I painted with a wide brush, and maybe introduced false facts (I really have no cite on the 1972 incident). I came to vent. I vented.
On a side note, I am neither a Nurse, nor a Carmen. Never assume doc. Especially when writing out them scrips. (That is, if you are a doctor)
What is it about snowmobilers and lakes? Every year in vermont/NH, you have 7-8 people decide to cross a lake AT NIGHT! Without knowing at all, what the condition of the ice is! The scenario: let’s beat the others going back-we can shortcut across the lake>
-“But the ice might not be thick enough”!
-“Naa…it’s been colder than hell!”
-“oK , let’s do it”!
So, they crash through the ice, and those heavy boots and snowsuits start pulling them down into the black, frigid waters…
What a lousy way to die…but they do it!
Oh Carmen. I feel for ya, hon.
Our worst here was snowmobiler vs. train. 4 or 5 years ago early on a Saturday morning. We started CPR, even though we knew there was no hope. He had some friends with him, and when people are standing there telling you that you have to do something, it’s very hard to look them in the eye and refuse.
I can still see the faces of his children pictured on his “World’s Greatest Dad” t-shirt…just before we cut it up the middle in order to get the defib on him.
I worked at a store that was directly at the crossing where the man was killed. Two days later a snowmobile crept ever soooo slooowly into the parking lot and stopped. The rider was seated, but his head was flung back and his arms outstretched…we thought he was dead, cardiac arrest or something. He was dead alright. Dead drunk. Drunk to the point of passing out while his sled was still moving.
Oh, God! I’m sorry, Snooooopy. I didn’t know.
Please forgive me.
I’ll never stick my neck out like that again.
Y’know, Doc, you do have a point. However, there is a time, place, and a manner in which to make that point. I submit that this thread was none of the three. It’s great that you want to stand up for the noble nature and sterling character of snowmobilers, but lay off the blood-soaked person who just loaded a corpse into the back of an ambulance.
NurseCarmen, I don’t know what to say, except that it’s vaguely comforting to know there are people like you out there. Good on ya.
To answer seriously: Even when alcohol is involved, a gun death is called a gun death and a snowmobile accident is called a snowmobile accident for a good reason: You can verify early on that a gun or snowmobile was involved. Proving alcohol is involved often will take more time, especially if the person who was under the influence is now hospitalized or dead. In the latter case, tissue samples would have to be sent to a lab for tests that could take weeks.
It might come out later that someone was seen in a bar for five hours beforehand, but the police probably don’t know that at the time. If the police know right away that a driver flunked a sobriety test, it’s probably going to be reported as a drunk driving incident. If they don’t, it’s not.
Also, it’s called a gun death or snowmobile death because the 9 o’clock news is not going to get away with reporting a “drunken fuckwit death.” “Five people were injured today during a drunken fuckwit spree at McDonald’s. Meanwhile a drunken fuckwit collision on the Interstate left two people dead and a midget really annoyed.”
Let’s say that Nock Dickel here were to go into a bar and have just one drink. (It’s fiction – stick with me.) So he goes out to the parking lot, pulls out his stepladder, and gets into his SUV.
On the way home, being a typical SUV driver, he never exceeds the speed limit. In fact, he’s listening to a weather-band radio so he can slow down if measurable precipitation is reported.
Just then one of those nasty Mini-Coopers roars up and cuts him off, the way they’re always doing to defenseless SUV drivers.
Nock Dickel expertly swerves. But wouldn’t you know it – on the right shoulder, there’s a bunch of juvenile-delinquent deer – in black leather jackets – shining flashlights into the SUV driver’s eyes.
So Nock Dickel swerves again. But doggone it, Mother Teresa’s religious order is driving a stretch limo in that lane and pulls right in front of him. He’s done all he can do, but so many forces have been arrayed against the SUV driver by people jealous of him that he crashes into a tree.
Now let’s say that the police find out that Nock Dickel had a drink.
Tell us, Dickel. Do you want this reported as an SUV accident, or a drinking accident?
People who think that flashy gear makes them proficient at whatever it is that they do often have poor judgement in general. Sport Chalet sells a lot of things, but not brains. You have to supply those yourself.
Every time I read a story like this I wish I had the courage to be a rescue worker, or a nurse, or a doctor, so that I could help. I’ve taken first aid and CPR courses, and I’ve been a life guard, and I’m terrified of actually having to use any of the skills I’ve picked up. I’m proud of you for being there for this guy, and I’m sorry he didn’t make it.
I am also pissed off because I know that even if the drunken idiot who drove off into the night had been trained in first aid, his legal obligation to his friend would have ended once he called 911, so he’ll probably get off. Bastard.
A story from a few years ago: Somebody was going to drive his snowmobile across the lake, going home from a bar. His friends warned him that he shouldn’t do it, the ice wasn’t thick enough. He said, “Only idiots break through and drown.”
Truer last words were never spoken.
**[“color=red”]Just as every SDMB thread about the dead, this one rises as well.[/color]
font change is to denote the then and now.
The story isn’t over.
The first supoena was given today. At least that is what I’ve been told. It makes me nervous.
It makes me nervous.
It makes me nervous.
I could tell when his airway wasn’t clear, because a stream of bloody mist came out of his left tearduct. I was responsible for the “Jutt-Jaw” on this guy. so when we did the 15-2 compressions, the airway was a huge responsibility.
It was MY responsibility. For how long we gave our heart and soul to this guy, the wonderful world of law wants to know the specifics.
This guy was dead from the get-go. It’s tough to admit, but traumatic arrest is a non recoverable state. To put it as the EMT said: “Are you suprised that you found a dead person and they stayed dead?”
It makes me nervous.
It makes me nervous.
I did everything I could. I am pretty sure I’m about to get sued, or I’m about to be involved in a case against some wonderful people who got caught in a shitty situation,and they are gonna be sued…
I don’t know what to think.
I’m pissed and I’ll keep you informed.
Ignore this thread if you have a chance to save a life.