That’s just really incredibly bad reasoning. Holy shit. I am not a parent, but I am a very, very experienced babysitter. 99.99% of the time that the nights I babysat, the parents would call at least once to make sure everything was OK. Things can and do go wrong when a child is in someone else’s care, so they were merely checking that all had gone according to plan. Some would even call pretty late, to check that their kids were OK, to check that I wasn’t asleep, to ask if it would be all right if they came home at 3 am instead of 2… whatever. It was reassuring to the kids that their parents called, and reassuring to me that they were backing me up. Some even called when drunk! Shocking! Oh wait, no it’s not. Adults can drink. They can come home drunk. They can do those things and still be responsible, loving parents.
And I’m going to way out on a limb here and say that if a guy had said he’d better check on his kid after a night of drinking, no one would assume that his kid was home alone or in any way neglected or getting a bad example. It’s just the mothers, who for some reason are expected to leave all the fun aspects of adulthood behind to become mindless servants of their children’s needs (rather than the more likely and appealing choice of responsibly caring for their children’s needs, then having some fun).
If I’m wrong, then you’re impugning a WHOLE lot of parents, including any parent on this board who ever attended a dopefest in a bar. If you’re comfortable making that broad sweep, then you’re an even bigger ass than I originally thought.
I am wriggling in the crushing grip of your reasoning right…now.
Your unborn children are formulating opinions of you right now! And they’re coming up…hypocrite.
Huh. I can admit when I’m wrong and when I’ve said something I shouldn’t. But I haven’t here, and I stand by that. Tibby’s plenty smarter than I am, I’m sure, and I believe what she said was YOU DON’T FUCKING KNOW what was going on, and the conclusions you drew could easily be mistaken. But can you admit that? NO, you just plow right on through, calling any consideration of circumstances “rationalization” and those who defend this person’s possible innocence little more than liars. You don’t know SHIT about changing your life around your child (other than your father being a drunken asshole…but I suspect that the adult you could drive anyone to drink), and I DO. So you can shut the fuck up.
And of course this thread ISN’T about me, but I could have been in a similar situation to that person and therefore am stating my opinion from that viewpoint. When you say that any parent who goes to bars is automatically a bad parent, you’re calling me a bad parent. I may not be perfect, but I am not a bad parent. I know that, my family and friends know that, and most importantly, my son knows that. Right now, this thread is mostly about YOU showcasing your idiocy, and you’re doing a bang-up job. Kudos!
I don’t have kids, and I’ve notice a tendency of mine to be a bit judgmental about other people’s parenting. That said, I cannot fathom why Lizard and others have a problem with a parent going out and drinking. It’s hard for me or anyone who knows me to imagine me having kids because of how much I like to go out drinking. I realize that having kids would require going out a lot less, not because there’s something wrong with a parent going out, but because kids take so much of your time and energy. I don’t even see anything wrong with going out frequently, if you have a family member (or a good nanny) to look after the kid. Most of the time the kid will be asleep while you’re out and won’t even notice you’re not there. I don’t see why a child is more likely to be neglected under such circumstances than one who has two parents working full-time.
You’re doing the equivelent of sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting “la la la I can’t HEAR YOU!!!” to anyone who dares to confront you on any of your holier than thou views.
It’s really making you look childish, not to mention just plain stupid.
-Lezlers (who babysat an average of 4 nights a week for 3 odd years and never oncedidn’t have a parent call and check on the kid)
Well, I guess the difference between you and me is that I don’t consider a bar to be an intrinsically evil place–it’s just a place for grown-ups. A bar in itself is no more or no less unwholesome or immoral than the SDMB. Like an online community, a bar is a hangout where people go to socialize and interact-- and where, sometimes, the jerks do stupid, unproductive things. And I don’t consider alcohol an evil in itself. Hell, I just cracked open a Blue Skyy malt beverage. Yum. I’ll savor it as I go rid up my kitchen and put away my laundry.
Are you indeed opposed to drinking alcohol? You haven’t come out and said it, but you’ve implied it, and you’ve also implied that a bar is not a place for sensible people to be, at all. If those are your feelings, I do feel that it is hypocritical for you to work at a bar. It’s like a stripper who is morally opposed to porn.
But…you, Lizard, are the one doing the assuming! You are assuming that her child is not in responsible care. With most people, we give the benefit of the doubt unless presented with evidence. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. And a call home to check is not evidence. For God’s sake, I call to check on my cat when I travel.
Man, this thread could have been full of funny stories about unadvised bar behavior. Let me tell you about the guy who stood by the crowded dance floor, shook up his bottle of beer, and let the spray fly…
Jesus Fucking Christ. Rarely have I seen a bigger bunch of yammering idiots with more talent for making stupid assumptions or putting words into other peoples’ mouths. If any of you had actually been reading what I actually said in this fucking thread you would know the following:
1- At not point did I EVER say “a parent who goes to bars is a bad parent,” or anything even close. My post was about ONE person, whom I saw and somewhat-know, and nobody else here does. That person was drunk and stoned while their young child was at home, and I’ve been pretty damn clear that it was that far more than just her mere presence that I found objectionable. We could all sit around and quibble about “maybe this, maybe that” until we’re all fucking old, But it really doesn’t matter, because * I was there and know whereof I speak*. No one else here can say that.
2 -
Yes, I am assuming. And you know what? Since I actually saw and know the person involved, I have more cause to assume anything about her than anyone else here. I didn’t start this thread to berate the parenting of people who go to bars. I mention this ONE person, who is a total skank, and idiots like Gundy come out of the woodwork to stretch what I said past all reason. As if was talking about them in the first place.
Am I holier than thou? When it comes to this particular woman, hell yes, with no apology! If other people want to rant and rave about how I’m slamming them as parents, well, they’re kind of missing the point.
And furthermore, she did not call home. She actually left the club to go to her apartment, which was a few blocks down the street. This, among other things, left the strong impression that yes, the child was home alone. Was I certain? No. Do I need to be to have an opinion on the subject? No.
Save the bullshit about “benefit of the doubt” for some courtroom somewhere. We are talking about 4-year-old kid here. I am not obligated by any rule, law, writ, regulation, guide, mandate, commandment, or decree to be fair to anyone in my private life.
So for the last time, to every parent who has posted their defensively self-rightous drivel on here (And why you think I know nothing about orienting my life around a child is a mystery Gundy) I don’t give a shit how you raise your kids. I never considered it my business. If you want to get offended because I find your parenting style to be questionable, then, well, may be you shouldn’t volunteer so many details, huh? I’m not about to change my opinions on this subject or give some abject apology just because some group of noodling assholes is offended. Life is rough, and some people think you’re wrong. Deal with it.
Lizard, I really enjoy how you have steadily offered more details about the woman in question as people have not gotten sufficiently outraged over her behavior. Clearly, the initial situation you presented should have been enough to become indignant at her actions, right? Otherwise you wouldn’t have had to provide more and more details as the thread wore on to justify your judgment of her behavior.
Anyhow, some of your points here:
Which is obviously moronic.
And:
plus:
in conjunction with:
So, here you said you think that parents set a poor example for their children by going to bars and staying out late. When you say you never said anything like “parents who go to bars are bad parents”, you’re lying. Perhaps I was wrong in thinking you don’t know anything about changing your life around a child (I thought I recalled you being a child-free person but I could be mistaken), but while you’re obviously entitled to your opinion, you’re still an ass for painting with such enormous strokes.
You said several things damn close to “a parent who goes to bars is a bad parent.” You said:
and:
and:
And these new developments:
Oh, she left the bar to check on the child? Well, that does change things a little. Why, had you included that tidbit of information in your OP, it could have changed the tone of the entire fucking discussion.
You are entitled to your opinion that the girl is a bimbo and a bad mother. But even though you know many details that indicate her skankiness, all you tell us is that she was in a bar, and she said she better check on her kid. These facts, with nothing to put them into context, do not back up your assertation.
Cool! I’d never heard of the guy (call me stupid) until I recently picked up a collected-works edition of his (A Confederate General from Big Sur, Babylon, and The Hawkline Monster). I was blown away. Now I’m on a quest for everything else he’s ever written.
Here’s a good one. Some fool was at a bar where I am a regular. He walks up to my table, sits down, and starts talking. Somehow, we start talking about whales. He tells me all about the “mammalian diving reflex” and how mammals will dive in water as deep as they can to avoid trouble. He wasn’t talking about whales sounding, either. He was saying the all mammals have the capacity to dive three thousand feet deep. Then, later on, he tried to tell me that the Louisiana Purchase was sold to the U.S. by the Spanish. I tried to bet him $100 dollars it was the French, but he wasnt having any of it. He told me he didnt want to take my money that easily.
He also told me Alaska wasn’t a state because It has no Interstate Highways. And Hawaii is, because there are Interstate Highways there. I dont remember his evidence for the fact that a state can only be a state because it has an Interstate Highway, and that saddens me now, because it would have been very funny.
Maybe the blonde bimbo in the OP had the same good intentions as you have, Gundy, but her use of alcohol and pot distorted her ability to effectively monitor her parenting skills, including a commitment to stop partying if doing so was adversely affecting her parenting.
Alcohol and pot can do that to a person. Any person.
So you’re saying…parents should never drink or smoke pot because their judgment might become impaired?
Again, I can only speak about my own experiences. I don’t smoke pot, so I can’t comment on that, but I’ve never – not ONCE – gotten so drunk that I could not take care of my son the next morning in the manner to which he’s accustomed. This is because, as an adult and a parent, I’m aware of my limits. Shitfaced drunk for me means about five or six drinks over an evening – that’s about what I can handle and still function well the next morning. So while this DOES mean that I personally can’t go out and do shots until I puke, I can go out, drink, have a good time, and get home in time to catch enough sleep to be normal.
Oh, and thanks for the pointed spelling correction (both versions are appropriate, by the way) and the comment on my “good intentions”. I’m too wasted to spell correctly, and besides, I intend to be a responsible parent, but once the Ol’ Janx Spirit hits my lips, next thing you know, it’s 5 a.m. and I’m under a dumpster with my panties on my head. Well, looks like my kid’ll have to eat crackers for breakfast again!
I have no children, so my opinion on this is bumfluff. However, I can’t imagine have a child and not making some major changes to my lifestyle, how ever much I wanted to go out and get bladdered.
However, I don’t think Lisard had anything against mums who party, just this one individual who he knew to be irresponsible. Give me a break.
Oh, and my stupid bouncer story: First he insists on searching the lining of my coat. It’s empty. Unsatisfied he calls his colleague over to check it again. It’s still empty. Reluctantly he hands my coat back and has a look at my ID:
Brain Dead bouncer: That’s not you
Me: Uh… yes it is.
BDB: Don’t smart mouth me. This is not your ID
Me: Yes it is!
BDB: You’ve got far more hair than the person in this picture!
Me: I’m growing it!
BDB: Have you been drinking?
Me: No!
BDB: I can’t let you in. I have reason to believe you’ve been drinking.
Gundy, all I was trying to say is that there are plenty of people out there in the world who use booze and/or pot who think that they are fully functional, but who are clearly not. Most often that’s a determination best made by a disinterested outsider who’s not clouded by booze and/or pot.
In other words, it is the nature of the drugs that users are not always the best-equipped to be accurate in evaluating the true harm they may be causing to their families.
My comments were not directed at you, even though I did quote your bit about “If I felt (or he felt) that doing so [partying] was affecting my parenting, I’d stop.” I only used that quote to make a point of how easily users can deceive themselves in these matters. As I said in my previous post, it’s the nature of the drug(s).
I don’t mean to sound preachy, but you can imagine how often clearly chemically dependent people have said “I can quit any time I want to” and “it’s only affecting me” when it’s obvious to any objective outsider that the opposite is true.
And finally, my correction of blond/blonde was aimed at the OP. A blonde is a light-haired female, and a blond is a light-haired male. Some dictionaries don’t make this distinction … but it’s still there.
I worked at a restaurant that had a bit of a reputation for serving minors. I tried to check IDs most of the time, and one time a woman in her thirties and a teenager came in. I asked for their IDs (it’s always awkward when you ask the table for IDs when one is clearly overage, but hey, $500 and three years not working anywhere near food? I don’t think so - not that I work with food now, but it’s something to fall back on if need be), and the younger one handed me her ID. She’d just turned 20, so I told her she was only 20 and she said something like “oh I thought I was 21.”
Then, and this is the kicker, I went in to get her (mother’s? friend’s?) beer and when I came out she looked at me like I was a dumbfuck for not getting her her alcohol. Um, no, I already carded you ass!
I had good parents growing up, and they when to parties and the like. Better than 99% of the time I loved those calls I’d get when they were out because they’d always ask to speak to me. But I Hated the New Years Eve ones.
The NYE ones were the ones where my mom would call me twice…once at 9, sober, and once at 11:30, totally smashed & slurring her words. I was confused and embarrassed because I loved her, but she was so drunk and she didn’t make sense. She was clearly out of control drunk at that point and I felt very scared and vulnerable. What if she dies? Who’s going to make us dinner? Where would I go? Who would I end up with?
My father would never drink more than 2 drinks at these things and I guess subconciously I knew he’d get her home safe and that she’d get ‘better’. Still, it was very upsetting. I think the worst call went something like this:
“Yessshhh Dear… Mommy Wuvvvs shyou whh-verry muchshhh”
“Mommy, you’re scaring me…!”
“Oh…noooo! Darsh noshing to be shcared of, baby…”
<Dad cutting in>
“We’ll be home after midnight; be a good boy til we get home”.
Looking back, it was his sobriety & control of the situation that comforted me the most.
And before people wind up on me, I want to say that these are my parents, and my experiances. Don’t Project.