Reasonable adults have wills, dammit!

The BBQ Pit
21

Might I point out that “eviction” itself implies a legal relationship between landlord and tenant that has not been established here? It is just as likely that “Mary” has no legal rights whatsoever. And even if she did, they would literally be “squatter’s rights,” because that is what she is; not a renter, not a tenant. You do not “evict” a squatter, they either have the right to stay or they don’t. Therefore, talk of proper “eviction procedure” in this case is moot.

But in regards to what I said about calling the cops, haven’t you watched “Roger & Me”? Having police officers in attendence during an eviction is common procedure in many parts of the country. At least in my neck o’ the wooeds, there is nothing at all unusual about it.

22

My condolences; this is a rough time, and the last thing you need is legal hassles.

Good thing you’re consulting a lawyer, and I would second whoever said don’t give her anything until you get some legal advice. For all I know (which is not a lot, especially since I live in another state) the act of giving her some stuff could lead her to try to claim that you acknowledged the relationship.

I used to own a condo here in NJ and at one point we had to have a tenant evicted for non-payment of rent. After all was settled in court, the local sheriff-equivalent went to the place and told her she had to leave now. She tried her usual song & dance, and he just said well that’s all too bad, but you have no right to be in this place, you’re trespassing and you must leave or we will put you in jail. She left.

I tell this long story because I would imagine there are similar laws there. If she has no documentation of any agreement with the property owner, I don’t see how she could be anything except a trespasser. It would be nice if you could just go to the local law enforcement agency and say hey there’s a trespasser on my mother’s property, would you please get her out of there. Again, good thing you’re consulting a lawyer, these are just my WAGs.

Even if everything she said was true, and even if they had been married, she would IMHO not be automatically entitled to the house anyway. A surviving spouse has a claim on the deceased’s PROPERTY, not things he happened to be borrowing at the time.

Getting back to the OP, you are absolutely right. If you don’t own much, or if you don’t have any particularly complex relationships,it may not matter, but otherwise it is a real obligation to your family to have written down what your wishes are.

BTW, since your mother has a problem, too (and my extreme condolences on that tragedy), I presume you have taken care of getting things like a living will (Advanced Directive for Health Care), and durable power of attorney (being sure it covers both personal and health care matters)? Sooner or later you will have to make lots of decisions on her behalf and it will be a thousand percent easier if you have those documents.

23

I am so sorry to hear about all this, StarvingButStrong. My condolences! I hope you get it all straightened out.

As far as wills go, I have a question: If you don’t have the money at the moment to do a will the right way, with a lawyer, are there any other options that will hold up?

For instance, if I were to write down a list of things I own and where I’d like them to go, and have it notarized, would that hold up as an “interim” will until I get a real one? Or at least give my nearest and dearest an idea of what I’d like done, even if it didn’t “legally” hold up? For those of you who’ve lost loved ones who didn’t have wills, would something like that have been helpful, even if it wasn’t “legal?”

B/c in my current position, I have been living with Mr. Levins for almost five years, and we will be married next year, but if something happened to me in the meantime, all of my belongings would go by default to my parents, correct? (My parents are not fond of this marriage, for a lot of reasons I won’t go into here, but suffice it to say I can see them disrespecting his right to keep anything of mine, if they “inherited” all of it by default. None of my stuff’s worth much monetarily; it would fall into the “keepsake” category.)

I don’t mean to hijack, but I hadn’t really thought of writing a will til I read the OP, so I am curious.

24

I am so sorry to hear about all this, StarvingButStrong. My condolences! I hope you get it all straightened out.

As far as wills go, I have a question: If you don’t have the money at the moment to do a will the right way, with a lawyer, are there any other options that will hold up?

For instance, if I were to write down a list of things I own and where I’d like them to go, and have it notarized, would that hold up as an “interim” will until I get a real one? Or at least give my nearest and dearest an idea of what I’d like done, even if it didn’t “legally” hold up? For those of you who’ve lost loved ones who didn’t have wills, would something like that have been helpful, even if it wasn’t “legal?”

B/c in my current position, I have been living with Mr. Levins for almost five years, and we will be married next year, but if something happened to me in the meantime, all of my belongings would go by default to my parents, correct? (My parents are not fond of this marriage, for a lot of reasons I won’t go into here, but suffice it to say I can see them disrespecting his right to keep anything of mine, if they “inherited” all of it by default. None of my stuff’s worth much monetarily; it would fall into the “keepsake” category.)

I don’t mean to hijack, but I hadn’t really thought of writing a will til I read the OP, so I am curious.

25

Thank you all for your condolences, and your advice. It’s very kind, and encouraging.

Mayfield St. Cloud, you had it right about why I was regretting the lack of a will or similar written instructions. I was being torn over the moralities of the situation, not the legalities mostly. On the one hand, it’s my duty to protect my mother’s interests if this woman is just trying to scam her way into an ‘inheritance.’ On the other hand, if she and my brother were genuinely involved, it would be sleazy to do her out of the little enough that my brother left. A simple piece of paper saying “I leave everything to my beloved Mary” – or – “Since I don’t have anyone to leave things to, burn it all” would make for a great deal more peace of mind.

As almost all of you said, I needed to consult a lawyer. Really, I knew that, I just wasn’t sure how to go about finding a suitable one when I’m a thousand miles away. Today it finally occured to me to call the lawyer who took care of setting up Mom’s trust/will/power of attorney and all, and ask how I should do this. It turns out his law firm has some sort of established working arrangements with law firms in most of the other US states, Mississippi among them. So I filled MA lawyer in on the situation (which didn’t take much time, since he already knows about mom’s trust and that EB was ‘renting’ but not paying rent on the house in question) and he is going to take care of getting the ball rolling with the lawyer down south, much to my relief.

MA lawyer was also very reassuring in that ultra-qualified way lawyers have, but he really made it sound like the situation is very clearcut legally. As in, regardless of being married or no, “Mary” has zero legal claim on the house. It belongs to mom (actually, her trust) and that’s that, regardless of whether Mom had rented it out or loaned it out or whatever. Mom has no ‘right’ to give the house away now even if she wanted to, that’s up to the trustees (me & MB & YB), and we are supposed to consider only Mom’s best interests in what we do, and in no possible way would it be beneficial to Mom to give away a big chunk of capital she’s likely to need herself.

Which sounds so reasonable now, that most of my guilt feelings have shut up. The fact that Mary has clearly lied at least about the length of her relationship helps, too.

MA Lawyer also thought Mary had zero claim on EB’s personal property unless she can come up with something a lot more legally valid than her own word that they considered themselves to be “spiritually married.” I pointed out to MA Lawyer that what had worried me re Mary was what was “right” to do, not just the legalities, and he pointed out that since we are willing (and pretty much planning) to give Mary everything else anyway, it doesn’t really matter. If she was entitled to it, fine, she’s getting it. If she wasn’t, well, we’re letting ourselves be ‘ripped off’ for a relatively small sum (especially when divided in thirds) so well worth it for not having to lie awake with guilt feelings or deal with a long drawn out battle over the stuff.

He also said that the fact that we hadn’t definitely given these things to Mary already is a big advantage. Mississippi lawyer can point out to Mary that legally she isn’t entitled to anything, and if she chooses to be a PITA and we end up in court, she will receive nothing and be out legal expenses on top of it. Whereas if she will agree to move out within a few weeks, we will give her the car & money, etc. – much the better option for her, and he says any lawyer she consults will tell her to grab the deal and run.

It sounds to me like something that borders on threats and bribes and blackmail, but MA lawyer says it’s all in how it’s phrased, and the lawyers will be sure it’s done right.

I must say, I feel very much better for having spoken with him. He said it may take a couple of weeks of back-and-forthing, and the final deal might involve giving Mary an additional month before she has to go, but so long as we haven’t signed over the cars and money before she and the furnishings are out of the house, she has an incentive to not draw things out.

Fingers crossed that MA lawyer is right in all these predictions.

26

“The only difference
'twixt a bribe and fee
is a few lawyers
and their wordy legal-i-ties!”

:smiley:

Glad you feel better, SButS. People like this Mary person live off the soft-hearted. They are nothing but parasites. I have seen so many people taken for a ride that it just boils my blood when I see another con-artist trying to pull their crap. Your lawyer sounds like a sharp cookie (in that he’s proactive and really seems to understand your mother’s best interests). You’re in good hands.

27

Thanks for bringing up an important point – so many of us haven’t executed a will, and should do so immediately. Also, sorry for your loss, hang in there.

P.S. Hi, Lizard.

28

Hi Blonde!

:slight_smile:

And Happy Birthday!

29

One thing that hasn’t been mentioned yet is that if you die intestate you estate will have to go through probate.
My sister and I are still in probate process over my father’s estate, and he died over two years ago. Mind you his is a simple estate, olny had a few bill owing, a house and a few bank accounts.
My sister and I are in complete agreement about the distribution of what few assets there are, we just need the court to sign off.
As near as I can tell probate is an old Latin word meaning Pain in the ass

SbutS I am sorry about your loss, I know that this woman has not made it any easier. Hang in there

30

Congratulations. Every sentence in this paragraph is wrong. As others have said in pit threads, giving bad legal advice can hurt those who rely on it. It shows amazing idiocy to persist when your error is pointed out by someone with a clue.

Maybe you’ll go away if I give you a cite, even though I’ve got better things to do. In City of Quincy v. Daniels, 615 N.E. 2d 839 (1993), the Illinois Appellate Court reversed the trespass conviction of the defendant. She was the mother of a (possibly former) tenant on the property. He allowed his mother to move in in violation of the lease. She tried to stay on after her son left. The landlord called the police, who charged her with trespass. The court determined that the police should not have acted in the matter, as the defendant was invited on the property by someone legally entitled to possession, finding that the Illinois Forcible Detainer [eviction] statute was a property owner’s sole remedy to remove someone on his property without right. (Although not specifically discussed, someone who originally entered without anyone’s permission would probably be different.)

My cite is to an Illinois case because (1) I can’t access Mississippi law without paying Lexis and (2) this has become a general discussion of the law, as the OP has disregarded your “advice” and is following proper procedures by seeing an attorney. It is possible that Mississippi law might be different, but probably not. At the very least, there is enough of a question to make any more direct action by the OP a bad idea without legal advice.

I will ignore any more posts by you without cites to the contrary.

Cites to Roger and Me don’t count. You are again confused. Police don’t evict anyone without a court order. (In other words, an order of possession entered at the end of an eviction case.) I haven’t seen the movie, but if it happened, it’s likely that that’s what you saw. Second, it’s usually not (municipal) police. Rather, it’s the county Sheriff’s Department that performs evictions in every state I’m familiar with.

Now go away.

31

One last point - It’s clear that the OP’s brother had the status of a tenant, legally entitled to possession of the house. It seems fairly clear from what the OP says that the woman was there with his permission, albeit not for the length of time that she claims. That is similar to the situation in the Daniels case.

32

I don’t have a will and don’t intend to have one soon. I have no significant possessions to pass on, don’t intend to develop any.

Plus, I don’t care what happens to my stuff after I’m dead. I’ll be dead. And if the people who survive me can’t hash it out amicably, then they deserve whatever mess they create. If they particularly want something of mine, they should let me know now, I’d probably give it to them.

I’ve already told my wife (and she know I’m serious) that I have no interest in what happens to my body after death. If it is cheaper and easier to throw me into the street, leaving me to the crows and dogs to eat, I’m ok with that.

If she or someone else wants something that will be emotionally helpfull to them, then they can make the arrangements.

I’m really not a possession oriented guy, and as far as I’m concerned, if I die, everything I own can revert to its original manufacturer, or the government, or whichever neighbor can pilfer it first.

But yes, if you do care, then make a will.

33

But by not leaving a will, you are leaving them no choice but to go through probate. Even if they can amicably hash out what goes to whom, you are still forcing them to wait needlessly and endure court and lawyer’s fees to go through probate.

Zev Steinhardt

34

That’s fine with me. If it is too much trouble, they can just let it all go unclaimed.

Like I said, if I have it and they want it, they should talk to me while I’m alive.

As I said, I have no significant estate and don’t expect to ever have one because I don’t want one. If they want my TV or my car, they can figure it out. Because I don’t care who gets it, and don’t want to care.

Can I just have a will that says “I don’t care, whatever the specific people hash out among themselves is fine. - Signed me.” Would that keep them out of probate?

35

SBS It sounds like your act is coming together and you are receiving legal counsel. It does sound like extortion for you to have to give the common law wife anything to get her ass out. How difficult would it be to assume that there is a substantial amount of money owed because of failure to pay rent? Perhaps if CLW was presented a common law bill that her CLH owes, she will not be so eager to assume the common law title.

36

masonite, I apologize if your query’s been answered already and I missed it. But in case your still wondering, rest assured that your will doesn’t make your debts the responsibility of your beneficiaries. If you die owing more than you have, then your creditors can help themselves to what you do have, but if after all your assets have been applied to pay your debts and there’s not enough left to satisfy them, then its your creditors who are out of luck. In that situation your beneficiaries won’t get any of your assets, but they won’t be saddled with your debts either.

Having said that, you should still write a will, just in case you climb out of debt someday or win the lottery.

37

At that time, I’m sure I will!

I assume my creditors would seize my car, and leave everything else alone. My main asset after the car is my CD collection. CDs have a way of finding their way into the homes of the people who want them the most, so I’m not worried about them.

Thanks for the info. Saves me a GQ thread.

38

Congratulations Random. Rarely have I seen anyone so completely fulfill all the negative stereotypes of their profession. Now I remember why I always thought the law students were pompous assholes. There won’t be any cites contradicting me on that.
Not that I’m going to bother arguing with your over-wrought post. If you can’t tell the difference between a situation involving a signed, legally binding lease and a blood relative, and a situation with NO lease, NO direct relations, and where the party involved never paid a dime in rent, I’m amazed you even passed the Bar.

39

Right: the owner. Which EB was not.

40

Please, guys – don’t fight over this. My guess is that the laws vary so much state to state, and in how exactly any given judge will interpret them on any given day, that every one of you is right – some of the times/places. :wink:

I’m very grateful all the advice and comfort I was given, when I was mucho upset. But now, since it’s in the hands of the professionals now, and it looks like everything will come out pretty okay in the end, why don’t we just let this thread die?