Fair question, Whack-a-Mole. Sorry if I seemed to be over-generalizing, but I just have the impression that many or most of the herding breeds might be a bit of a handful for me. I am not a passive doormat or anything, but I can be intimidated by a male dog that wants to dominate me. That’s why I’m definitely going to get a female dog, whichever breed I choose.
I don’t know if I’m expressing this correctly, but to me, your choice of dog is a reflection of your own personality. If I were a dog, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be a herding breed. It’s just a “feeling” I have, from my impression of them. That’s all.
Besides, a nice red (& white) Brittany or basenji would match my hair color best!
Padmaraga, many female dogs are dominant (some are overdominant) and many male dogs are submissive. I’ve even met spayed female dogs that hump other dogs (of either sex) to establish dominance.
Likewise, some herding breed dogs are less likely to try to dominate you than some non-herders. In my personal experience, the herders are often more into the idea of finding their place in the pack structure beneath you than the hunting dogs or the non-sporters are.
I totally agree with you that I don’t want to be stuck trying to handle a dog that’s not convinced I’m boss – that’s why I looked for a Sheltie, because they often have big-dog personalities in their little under-30-pound bodies, just in case. Some labs and goldens and etc. are impossible to handle not because they’re dominant, but because they never learned to pay attention to the faint cries and gentle tugs coming from the puny human attached to the other end of the leash!
I just think it’s unreliable to go by breed and sex – the best way I know of is to play with the critter for a few hours and watch carefully how he or she interacts with you and with other critters.
Ah damn, my favorite dog doesn’t fit most of your requirements, but can I plug them anyway? Please please please?
Newfoundlands! Big, beautiful, smart, loyal and loving.
Of course, you mentioned hair, and they have an excess. Also, a smart one will absolutely try and outsmart you, every day, not to mention males like to be alpha if you let them.
Listen to Whack-a-Mole, you won’t go wrong. I would suggest a Shiloh or a Lab.
I disagree to an extent - I don’t think it’s totally unreliable to use breed and sex to make a determination as to what dog suits you best. I think they are, in general, good places to start. That said, I’m open-minded enough that if I met the perfect dog for me(as if you could really know in a short time, but…for the sake of argument…), and it happened to be a breed that was not on my “favorites” list, I really doubt I’d pass it by.
Padmaraga, I want to reiterate what emilyforce is saying. Be careful about generalizing dominance based on the gender of the dog. In the litter I got my dog from, all the males were generally laid-back, and all the girls were pushy bitches. You really need to look at the individual dog. I went with the breeder’s recommendation based on what my lifestyle was an took the most laid back boy, who has been a great match for me. BTW, my dog is a Norwegian Elkhound, which might be a good match for you except for the fur. Oh my God, the fur!
How about a Visla? Medium sized, athletic, short coat, not well known and therefore not over-bred in the U.S. They’re a hunting dog, so may be more active than what you want, though. I considered this breed but decided they were too active for me.
I’d suggest a Ridgie (they ran a close second to the Elkhound for me), but it sound like you don’t want something that big.
Padmaraga, yeah, OK, I’m with you there on “good places to start”
– especially regarding breed, and especially with a breeder that responsibly breeds “true to breed” or whatever you’d call it. But very honestly my experience does not support that female dogs are less likely to have problems accepting your authority than male dogs. My family assumed that when we adopted our Aussie-mix when I was 12, and Shannon NEVER stopped trying to impress on us how much smarter, more capable, and assertive she was than we could ever be. She plain wore us out. So I’ve been curious about this for a long time and have been paying attention to the gender/authority thing in dogs ever since.
Maybe this gender/authority thing is more prevalent in some breeds, like the Newfies as EJsGirl mentions? I dunno.
Would you consider a Sheltie? They are sooooo superfantastic… and sofreakin’CUTE! OMG! And extremely tractable. It’s rare to find one who wants to boss you around. Ours is a boy: Ben.
I’m starting to feel a teeny bit insulted by this point being pushed. I didn’t say all male dogs are aggressive and all females are not. Never. I did say (or imply) that I see the potential tendency for aggressiveness in a higher percentage of males than females. That’s what I mean by “a good place to start”. If more females than males are aggressive, prove to me I’m wrong.
I’ve owned dogs before. I grew up with a few, and have picked out some of my own. I know how to assess a litter of pups for dominance, passiveness, and other tendencies. I’ve even obedience trained a few myself.
I also said that I’m open-minded. I’ve had male dogs before. I might have one again. But I feel that I’d probably be more comfortable with a female, just as a preference. It’s not carved in stone. I’m a woman - I can change my mind. If the right dog comes along and it’s male, I’ll take him.
I hope nobody still feels the need to educate me on the male/female issue again.
Sorry, Padmaraga, point taken, definitely did not mean to offend or imply nuthin’ or slur your knowledge. It wasn’t clear from the OP how much experience you’ve already had, but it sounds like you’ve had lots.
So… can I still talk you into consider a Sheltie? Kidding, only kidding! I do understand about the “right for you” breed thing. Shelties just turned out to be right for me and my husband, so completely that we were (and continue to be) astonished. We surely never thought of ourselves as herdlike.
My supervisor has a Westie who lords over her house - perfect for her, as she likes uppity critters, being one herself.
I’ve always been intrigued by the Basenji – does anyone know one? Are they really that destructive?
We have two Corgis, (pembroke) and they are FANTASTIC dogs, but I can’t agree with you about the shedding. They blow their coats twice a year, and shed quite a bit at other times. They really are super friendly dogs, and they love people. If you want a buddy dog, they are great. But, I agree they are not hiking material, though if kept in shape they are certainly up to a walk every night. Our Corgis love to be brushed. They can be expensive though, I think our last one was $700+.
Another thought, and I don’t think it has been mentioned, is the “Labradoodle” - a Poodle/Lab mix. Doesn’t shed, like a poodle, and is smart, like a poodle, but more social like a lab. Some people swear by them.
I have a smooth coat Dachshund/wienerhund (cause let’s face it, he’s not hunting badgers).
I Love the little guy. Very clean, rarely smells (unless he finds a dead worm in the yard to roll around in)
Very little grooming- nail clipping; and bathing every few weeks.
Great buddy inside the house, pretty easily housebroken given some dilligence and consistency. He sleeps in the bed with us, mostly likes to be where we are, but is still pretty independent.
Not the sharpest of hunds, but knows a few tricks and responds to leadership.
Can Not be let off leash, he’s an independent hunter, and would take off after the first squirrel he sees, no command will bring him back.
We walk him close to a mile a day, plus some inside fetching games daily.
He’s not prone to barking much inside, he’s trained to go out the doggie door to do his barking in the yard, although I have taken care of other wieners that barked quite a bit at any noise.
Shedding: Smooth coat, red dog, doesn’t shed much, little red hairs don’t show much on furniture either.
'Sawright, emilyforce, I think I was being a bit too touchy.
Corgis seem to be popular with some of you. I had a boyfriend whose parents bred them, and I just have this memory of corgi hair everywhere! They just don’t appeal to me in their appearance, though. I don’t like those short-legged dogs - a dog should be able to run, not waddle.
Now, the Viszla - aren’t they a pretty reddish color?
And yes, Vislas are a gorgeous red color, and they’re pretty uncommon, so everyone will come running up to you asking what kind of dog you have. And they when you tell them, they will still look confused. And then you will spell it, and they will look even more confused. “Well, it’s Hungarian, you see…”
I get it all the time with my Elkhound. “No, he’s not a Huskie. No, he’s not part wolf. He’s bred for hunting moose in packs. No not elk. He’s called an elkhound because it’s a bad translation. He really should be called Norwegian MooseDog.”
I know the male vs. female thing has been done but to support Padmaraga’s notions a female is more likely to be less dominant. Yes females can be dominant and the alpha but it is more strongly represented in the males…especially if the male hasn’t been neutered. In the absence of other criteria and you want to avoid dominance battles with a dog your chances are better with a female than a male.
As it turns out there are ways to assess a puppy before you take it home. At around 6 weeks of age a puppy test can be performed that will give a general indication of the dog’s tendencies and what it might be like when it grows-up. It is not a guarantee of anything but it is a good place to start. I know Shiloh breeders do this as a matter of course for all their pups and have a form they fill out indicating the dog’s scores. Ideally this test should be performed mroe than once to allow for normal variations (maybe something happened earlier to make the pup cranky or maybe it has to pee…lots of things might skew the test). Of course getting to spend some time with the litter (assuming you can have your pick) helps as well but most important is to talk to the breeder who has been with the pups form day one. I remember the breeder of my dog related a story that when she fed the dogs my dog would take a few bites then leave the food and come back to her and ‘thank’ her then turn around and go back to her food. I knew that pup was going to be a sweetheart and indeed she is. She still does the ‘thank you’ thing as well (she’ll eat a few bites then come over to say ‘hi’ or ‘thank you’ or something then go back to her meal).
I don’t mean to push Padmaraga (well maybe push a little) but I really think you should take a closer look at the Shiloh. Yes they are a herding breed but I think your doubts about herders is unfounded in this breed. They are guardians and generally not interested in fighting you for dominance. Indeed Shilohs/GSDs excel at Schutzhund training beating most other breeds in this demanding set of tasks. Contrary to popular belief Schutzhund training does not mean attack dogs but rather training to protect against dangerous situations (Schutzhund dogs often go into police, military or search and rescue work where they must be reliable and steady). Part of becoming a good Schutzhund dog is instant obedience to commands in any situation. A breed that has dominance issues would not be a good candidate for Schutzhund training. I mention this not to push this training but to illustrate with something like proof that Shilohs are NOT a handful and in fact are eager to please and be of help.
Further, reading some of what you have written, I get a sense that a Shiloh’s personality (dogality?) actually jibes very well with your personality. They are not hyper, they are not demanding but instead are quiet, loyal companions. They’re your buddy who is just happy being in your presence without being all over you (although BIG hugs are always welcome). They are happy curled up near you while you read a book and they are happy going for a walk or a hike. Their steadiness, steadfastness, intelligence and great heart make them very adaptable and loving pets. They do require some work on your part to properly train and socialize them as pups but it is time well spent and you will get back a 100x what you put in. Their intelligence makes training a cinch (relatively speaking) so mostly you just have to do it. The Shiloh is thrilled to work for you so they are into it and for my money the training isn’t a chore but rather a fun time with your dog anyway.
Finally they also fit nicely into most lifestyles. They can be outdoorsy dogs or homebodies. All my shepherds have been homebodies. They never ran away (despite plenty of opportunity if they so wished) and with work/school they often spent hours home alone. No damage ever and they had stupendous bladder/bowel control (every once in awhile things would work out that they didn’t get walked for 12 hours and they held it…I couldn’t do that). The only accidents in the house were as pups (and they potty trained very fast…my current one did it in a week with only a few mishaps after that) and when they were sick. My current dog lives in a 1200 sq ft condo and his quite happy. At 95 pounds people ask how such a big dog can be tolerated in such a small space but really she only takes up a few sq. ft. and she’s not hyper or vocal so no problems (she barks a bit when there is a knock at the door and if I tease her but that’s about it). In short she is a joy to live with.
I’m sure you would be happy with many different breeds but I am very confident you would be thrilled with a Shiloh. About the worst part for you would be their fur maintenance but with the plush it really isn’t so bad. A quick brush once a week (1o minutes or so) and the fur problem is mostly handled. Bathing her is more of a chore as 95 pounds of dog is a lot to dry off but at once every three months that is no big deal either (and kinda fun anyway). I know you will get what your most comfortable with as you should but do yourself a favor and read up on the Shiloh. It’ll be time well spent.
Yeah! The woman in that picture is totally cute! Her name is Sheltie?
Whoops…you meant the dog…it’s cute too (some dogs have all the luck ).
OK, OK, Whack-a-Mole. I was really not wanting a big dog, but I promise I’ll consider the Shiloh. Really. I’ll take a good look at all the info and give it some thought. I’ll admit, they’re a beautiful dog and I like the traits you’ve described.
But don’t hate me if I end up with a knee-high, 30-ish pound breed. I promise, whatever decision I make, not to make it lightly.
Hee hee! Yeah, Whack-a-Mole, Jesse’s a stunner, ain’t she? Too bad for y’all but she has herself an SO already. She bin my best friend forever.
Jesse likes AmStaffs best! (American Staffordshire Terriers are one of those lumped together as “pit bulls”. Do not be dissing pit bulls if Jesse’s in earshot, lemme tell ya.) But that’s partly because she is hella strong and can mangage them. She used to have a girl AmStaff that would leap from the floor into your arms while you were standing. She thinks Ben is a Casper Milquetoast… though, um, she may be right about that.
[batting eyelashes] In the other two shots, that’s me an’ my husband getting married this past May. [/batting eyelashes] Ben was great at the ceremony.
The only basenji I have ever known was not a pleasant dog. I worked at a vet clinic for two years, and Kenya was the ONLY dog that bit me. (I was trying to get her to take a 4" step up onto our scale and she nailed my hand - bruised for a week.) She was a great-looking little dog, but definitely aggressive. I can’t say if that’s due to lack of training or her personality, but I wasn’t particularly fond of her after she bit me. Very attractive dog, though. They don’t bark, but they do yodel.
Of course I won’t hate you. In fact you shouldn’t listen to anyone or anything but your own heart. Once you’ve read about the different breeds, heard about them from us and others and what they are like from visiting them the ONLY correct answer is the one you feel is best. As long as effort is put in to learn about various breeds (as you are doing) and you choose based on your heart tempered with knowledge the dog you get will be the BEST dog in the WHOLE world (except for mine of course ).
I just can’t help but evangelize about the Shiloh Shepherd and will blather on about them at no provocation whatsoever. If you’ve noticed most people who adore their dogs tend to do the same thing. I swear EJsGirl has me seriously considering a Newfoundland from previous threads where she has gone on at length about them (she’s an excellent ambassador for that breed). If you get a dog that profoundly touches your heart you will almost certainly join the ranks of proud pet owners who annoy others by regaling them about how YOUR dog is the BEST pooch there ever was! (With a little luck this will happen!)
Given the titles of the photos I figured this was the case and that it would be in especially bad form to make a pass at and regarding a women in her wedding dress. Of course I didn’t know Jesse was spoken for but it’s hardly surprising.
Ah well…guess my dog will remain my main lady for awhile yet (not a bad thing). [sub]Don’t anyone even THINK of making some sicko comment about that.[/sub]
I do understand about the “right for you” breed thing. Shelties just turned out to be right for me and my husband, so completely that we were (and continue to be) astonished. We surely never thought of ourselves as herdlike.