Recording a meeting with my boss, and his boss.

In My Humble Opinion
1

My Wife’s father died last week. My boss, whom I’m starting to think has some real mental issues, gave me a hard time about taking 5 days off from work. My Wife and I had to travel 1500 miles to the funeral. Adopted HR policy says that I get 10 days off and I can take sick time. My boss also said that I would have to take vacation time.

My bosses boss is a reasonable level headed man. The way I was treated over this was the last straw. So I called a meeting between him, his boss and me. I’m thinking of recording the meeting on my PDA. I get nervous at these meetings, and would like a record of what gets said.

What do you guys think of that? If it was somehow found that I had recorded the meeting, I might get in a little hot water at work, but I could defend that easy enough.

It’s not illegal to record conversations when the parties don’t know about it, is it?

Nervously yours

enipla

2

I wouldn’t recommend recording without their permission.
Ask for a rep from HR to attend and take notes as well. Or, heck, ask if you can record the meeting and see what they say.

3

I don’t know about the legality of it, but it sounds like a very, very, bad idea. Does HR say you get 10 days off for the death of an in-law? That seems like a lot. If that is true, you have an open and shut case without recording. If not, taking vacation time might be appropriate.

I’d also check your employee handbook closely. Recording someone without their permission might well be an offense that would cause immediate termination. In any case, it would quickly become about you, not about him.

What did you think you’d get out of recording the conversation anyhow? Do you think you would be threatened with his boss present? Not likely, I’d say.

Why don’t you request someone from HR being present, just to have someone who understands the rules?

4

As far as I can tell you only need one party consent in Colorado, but I agree with Enderw24. If your secret recording gets revealed either by accident or out of necessity, I don’t think it would end well. Since this is an HR issue, I would probably discuss it with them first and see if the meeting can be avoided altogether and try to have an HR rep there for the meeting if it comes to that. Keep in mind though that HR is ultimately on the employers side.

5

Thanks. I agree. I won’t record it. I really don’t need to as My bosses boss is a good guy.

The rules are clear. 3 emergency days and 7 sick days (if you got 'em). My bosses bosses boss is actually the head of HR. I’ll have to think about that one though. My boss is just gonna say “That’s not what I meant” Or deny it completely.

I have 3 witnesses that overheard this exchange, so I’m on pretty solid ground. I don’t think my boss realizes this, so I’ll give him the rope if he wants to hang himself. My co-workers are appalled at how I was treated. One even said “I expect that kind of treatment from boss, but I never thought he would treat you that way”. It’s bullshit. He shouldn’t feel that way at all. We should all be treated as things are laid down in the HR guidelines. We are all walking on eggshells around this guy. I suspect he is manic depressive or something.

I’ll just remain calm, and of course, stick to the facts.

6

In Colorado you may record a conversation with the other participant(s)'s consent. However, you are the best judge of whether or not such a move would be considered an appropriate CYA method, or would result in further problems at work.

7

As an HR professional, I would encourage you not to secretly record the conversation. I would also refrain from asking if you could record it, because it will immediately put the other participants on the defensive. You are looking for a professional tone to the meeting, not a confrontational one.

However you can (and probably should) offer to take notes, and after the meeting send an e-mail to both other parties saying something like “here are my notes from the meeting, do you agree this was what was agreed upon?” That way they cannot come back later and say you misremember. Alternatively you can ask to bring someone else in to take notes (preferably an assistant or secretary-type).

I would go in with the Empoyee Handbook or whatever written policy the company has, and lay out your situation in a non-accusatory tone. Just say you want clarification on how the policy applies to your situation. If your boss’s boss is a standup guy, and you aren’t trying to embarass your own boss in front of him, you should get good results.

8

Union representative. That’s who’d be with you in such a meeting here. Is it an option there?

9

My question is what exactly you are trying to achieve?

If it’s just the single issue of being able to use sick days, then I’m not sure why you and your boss and the company handbook can’t resolve it, or at worst, you and your boss and either an HR person (better IMO) or boss’s boss. Afterwards of course you send an e-mail like Skammer says, and all their advice is good.

If you’re trying to tell the boss’s boss that your boss is crazy and out of control, then it shouldn’t be a meeting at all; it should just be you dropping by and chatting informally with the boss’s boss without your boss there at all. Remember, no formal meeting so there’s no reason for your boss to get upset about you meeting with his boss when he’s not there.

10

I’ve worked in H/R and it doesn’t matter, he’s the boss you are not. He wins. Short of quid pro quo sexual harassment, it isn’t going to turn out good for you.

Sick days are conditional benefits, meaning they don’t have to be paid out and are not usually accrued for on a balance sheet. If you’re boss said you could use your sick days and he was wrong, well he was wrong. Most bosses can’t override company policy.

Sometimes in H/R they will honor it to be nice. Some sick day policies are strict. I had one that required a doctors note for every sick day off. And doctor’s appointments weren’t sick days because if you saw your doctor or dentist for something routine it should be planned for your day off (at least according to H/R)

If you irritate your boss and for some reason H/R sides with you, well you better be prepared from this day forward to make sure every single thing you do is by the book. You will not be allowed to be late, to miss the smallest detail, or your boss will write you up.

Of course retaliation isn’t allowed by most companies, but it’s easy enough to do just enforce existing rules.

You don’t want to be shy one job in this economy

11

Whenever my boss tries to tell me something I think is F’d up I ask them to Email me those statements (or whatever it is). That way I have it documented.

Once I had a boss try to tell us in a meeting that only one person at a time (out of 40something people) could go on vacation. HR clearly says it’s three.

I asked him if he could Email that new rule to me. The next day he sent out a mass email to every one stating "Forget what I said about only one person at a time thing.’

12

Forget recording the conversation. Who are you recording it for? Do you think your boss is going to ass-rape you in the meeting or something?

Basically, you are asking for 5 days of personal time off (PTO). These are not “sick days” which are unplanned days off due to illness.

Vacation is to be used when you need time off from work for whatever reason. It isn’t “I’m only taking vacation time for fun days off and using sick days for everything else.”

13

He’s already said that he is specifically entitled to take sick days for this by the HR rules at his company.

ETA: At my company we are entitled to take a few days of paid special bereavement leave in such circumstances. It’s in the employee handbook. If I needed to take it (which I certainly hope I don’t) I would not be cheating the company if I took it – they are offering it to me.

14

Thanks for all your input.
There is no doubt as to what we are allowed for emergency leave. A total of ten days if you have the sick leave (I have about 800 hours accrued I don’t take advantage of it). My boss should know this policy since it was his treatment of a coworker that got the policy to change. I’m not going to fault him for not knowing every single policy (government is full of them) but I really doubt he didn’t know this one.

We are a small department in a small County Government office. My boss, my self and two others (T and M). We are not Union so that is not an option.

It isn’t so much that he didn’t know the policy, but that he threatened me if I took more than 5 days (he might of well said ‘or else’). A little consideration on his part would have gone a long way. If he would have just listened to me and treated me with a little consideration, we could have had this straightened out right then. It comes down to some very very bad management skills. He won’t listen to the people he supervises.

Next to my boss I have seniority. I have been there for 17 years. My boss and I started this department. I am not an official supervisor of the other two, but if my boss is gone, and something comes up my co-workers come to me.

As a small department, we all have our specialties, but each one of us can handle pretty much any issue that comes up. We have to cover for each other when someone else is gone. One person can handle the day to day issues.

Anyway, the way I was treated is typical, and getting worse. I think, no I know it’s indicative of a larger problem. One day, he acts like your best friend, the next day, you don’t dare talk to him.

We are walking on eggshells.

In any case, it’s not just the way I was treated over this emergency leave. It goes much deeper than that. For instance –

  • T has told me that he has stopped making suggestions or recommendations for new projects. He is tired of being shot down and belittled. It’s sad, because for our specialty, he is one of the brightest guys I know. It’s not a coincidence that he recently resigned. Last Wednesday was his last day.

  • M told me that he expects to be treated badly by boss, but he never thought I would be treated that way. Two years ago, boss told M that he would always be his bitch. Twice. He repeated that in front of about 6 people. If he was the owner of the company, that would be one thing. He could say anything he wants, but this is county government fer crying out loud. HR did get involved with that incident. This behavior has been going on for some time.

When I get back my bosses boss will be gone. When he gets back, my boss is going on vacation. I may take that time to have an informal meeting with my bosses boss so I can be sure to be able to bring up these issues. Because of my bosses behavior, our department has stagnated and become dysfunctional.

15

I interpreted the OP to mean he gets 10 vacation days and an unspecified number of "sick’ days for emergencies. Typically you can’t just take a week off, call them “sick days” and leave your vacation days intact.

Either way, the solution is relatively simple. Talk to HR and find out the official policy for taking a week off to go to the funeral.
But trust me, recording your boss is a terrible idea. If you want a permenant record, just send email communications.

16

I have to say this sort of thing does not rise to the level of you taking career-threatening actions. It’s your in-law, not immediate family, that died, and the (American) norm would be to use vacation time. Your ongoing issues with your boss should be treated seperately, and engendering conflict on matters like this will weaken your case. Suck it up and take vacation time, and for the other issues, document, document, document (but not via secret taping).

17

Why the hell shouldn’t he take full advantage of the benefits given to him? And who the hell are you to judge how he should treat the death of a family member. I bet there are a lot of people out there who might be closer to an in-law or step parent than they are to their blood family.

18

If the benefit was there for the taking without the boss taking issue, then that would be fine. However, escalating this issue might not be worth it, is what I’m saying. I’m pretty sure that bereavement leave generally covers only immediate family in most cases, if I’m not mistaken. YMMV wildly. Personally, I think folks in the US generally don’t get anywhere near a humane amount of leave for things like this.

19

I’ve said this a number of times that the offical policy is that we get 3 emergency days and 7 sick days. We do not need permission from our supervisor to do this. All we have to do is let them know. I’ve verified this with the HR department. There is no question.

I will definately not record this. Or ask to record it. I do use email very well to document things. But when my boss looses it on a one to one communication, there is just no dealing with him.

I could have emailed him from Pittsburgh. But being a good employee, I went into the office to tie up loose ends and let him know that I would be I would be monitoring my email, and will be available to help.

Instead, he jumps down my throat. That is the ongoing issue with my boss, he manages by bulling, this is just another example. I have three witnesses to how I was treated that day. It was very unprofessional.

20

That’s my experience. I’ve been to quite a few funerals on my gal’s side of the familly. It never occurred to me to try to use “funeral time.” I’ve always used *“personal time.” But, that’s just me, and my employer. Don’t know the OP’s situation, and, of course, YMWV.

*My employer, as is common nowadays, gives you a pool of “personal” days for vacation or sick time.