Relationships, doing things apart, and being "whipped" (long)

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

[QUOTE=burundi]
I think we have the same husband. My sweetie, while a brilliant dude and a wonderful husband, has the memory of a sieve. I am the Official Keeper of the Social Calendar. I’m sure to an outsider, his asking, “Is it okay if I go?” might make him look whipped, but it’s no different than someone else checking their datebook.
[/QUOTE]

:smiley: In fact, my husband who is, in fact, a brilliant dude and a wonderful husband (and a Doper, even) has buddies who try to give him crap for being whipped because we have this conversation on a regular basis. He’ll turn to me and ask “Can I go?” and I’ll say yes or no (depending) and his buddies will make the infamous whipping noise. He rolls his eyes at him and patiently explains that he has shit for a short-term memory for social events and that I have a memory like the proverbial elephant.

We just leave out the whole tedious middle bit. I know what he’s really asking, and he knows that I’m answering the long form question and not giving or denying permission. Everyone else can go whistle :wink:

22

I think I’m married to either Aangelica or burundi and they’re just very good at hiding their Doper personality from me at home. :smiley:

My wife sometimes jokes that I should pay her a salary as my secretary. I point out that I could not afford someone of her caliber. She calls me a flattering cheapskate, but she’s still keeping track of the social stuff, thankfully.

I remember things just fine at work, I know how to dress myself and cook and clean and all that other stuff, and yet when it comes to remembering that this weekend is when we’re supposed to go visit so-and-so… I draw a blank. Glad I’m not the only guy who does that I guess. :slight_smile:

So this isn’t a total hijack:

  1. Well, my wife and I pursue our own hobbies – she’s into Renfaire and all it’s trappings, whereas I only participate in a small subset of it that lets me throw sharp pointy things; I game with buddies every weekend while she goes clubbing. We have two hobbies in common, I think, those being reading and billiards.

Friends-wise… I don’t have many to reference, but of the two couples that I know, one is very Girlfriend Wrath-y, the other… she’s obsessive and joins him in every hobby he tries to take up, often ruining it for everyone involved because she’s a drama queen and attention whore. The latest one is WoW and she’s one of the main reasons I quit playing that game, even though I wanted to play with him and introduced it to him in the first place. That’s a bit the opposite of what you were asking about but I consider it just as much a killer as the Girlfriend Wrath scenario.

  1. I dunno. You’d have to look at body language, pattern of occurrence, all that jazz. Personally, I’d probably blow it off most of the time. Simply put, he’s making a choice even if he blames it on his GF (he’s choosing the path of least resistance, maybe, but it’s still a choice). His fault, his problem.

  2. Depends. Are you looking for a girl at the same events you’re attending, or are you ignoring all the gamer-girls and heading to the bar to find a GF, and then wondering why they’re not interested in your geekly pursuits? :slight_smile: Are you a furry-toothed freak, or can you pass as human? If you’re hygienic and not totally socially incompetent, I’d say your chances are good – if you look in the right place. IME, gamer girls appreciate a guy who doesn’t stink and talks to them instead of their t-shirt.

23

[QUOTE=Aangelica]
He’ll turn to me and ask “Can I go?” and I’ll say yes or no (depending) and his buddies will make the infamous whipping noise.
[/QUOTE]

Every single person that read that knows exactly what noise you mean.

hijack…

I once worked in an office with about ten other guys. The first time one got a call from his SO, and ended it with a whispered and embarassed “I love you too”, a few guys made kissy noises. After a few months, it got the the point that when any guy said goodbye to his SO on the phone, the entire room would erupt into a chorus of whipping noises, kissy noises, and “Schmoopy!”

24

[QUOTE=Sofaspud]
IAre you looking for a girl at the same events you’re attending, or are you ignoring all the gamer-girls and heading to the bar to find a GF, and then wondering why they’re not interested in your geekly pursuits?
[/QUOTE]
Neither. Let’s not get into that.

25

[QUOTE=Priceguy]
Neither. Let’s not get into that.
[/QUOTE]

… well, you asked. :slight_smile:

Anyway, I just thought of a couple more examples for your question #1. Of the two (one couple are relatives, the other are friends), both the guys have used the Girlfriend Wrath excuse in the past. One of them I’m dead certain it was just an excuse, because he’s pretty much stopped hanging out with us anyway but we still see him out and about without his wife, and when I had a chance to talk to her she wanted to know why he wasn’t going out with us any more.

The other is legit, because, damn, she’s a nutjob. He has to be home by 12:30 on weekends. Why? Nobody knows! It’s the rule. He can’t go to a particular bar we all like. Why? Nobody knows! It’s a RULE.

Yeah, he’s whipped. He’s not happy but gets pissed at us when we give him crap about it, and won’t do anything to change it, so we’ve stopped hanging out with him. We’re heartless bastards. If you won’t get off yer butt to fix your own problems, you aren’t worth the effort. :slight_smile:

26

[QUOTE=Priceguy]
3. What are my odds to find another person who’ll let me play my brains out while not sulking about it?
[/QUOTE]

Sweetie, if I can find a husband who let’s me…uh…“play” my brains out with other men (nudge, nudge, nowotImean?), you can find another woman who’ll let you fondle cards with strangers.

Takes all kinds, and they’re all out there somewhere.

27

[QUOTE=Priceguy]

  1. Is the kind of relationship I had really that rare? This being the Dope, this thread will feature plenty of women proclaiming that they have that kind of relationship and that their men are free to spend time on their hobbies. So think around to people you know, your relatives. How many of them fall in which category?

  2. Are my friends using girlfriend wrath as an excuse or is it legit? Hard for anyone else to know, sure. Make a good guess.

  3. What are my odds to find another person who’ll let me play my brains out while not sulking about it?
    [/QUOTE]

I think my husband and I have this kind of relationship. Although 90% of our “hobby” time is spent together playing either WoW or D&D, we also do things apart and it’s no big deal to either of us if we want to do something separate from the other. I value the time I get to spend by myself as much as I value the time we spend together. I have to admit that I’ve given him permission to use me as an excuse to get out of stuff he doesn’t want to do, though.

Our circle of friends consists of three other couples, two of which are 100% gamer couples, the other couple we tend to see half of (the husband) in our D&D groups while the other half (the wife) is busy doing her own thing. All three of these couples seem perfectly comfortable with their respective arrangements. The wife who doesn’t participate in our games is extraordinarily tolerant of her husband who can be a rather insensitive guy, and I wouldn’t doubt it if he made the “my wife would get mad” excuse, which very well could end up being true in spite of how tolerant she is since he tends to push people’s limits.

My husband and I have played WoW for quite a long time together, too. Right now we’re co-leading a pretty huge but tight-knit guild that has several married couples that play together, and several married guys that play by themselves. We always hear the “wife aggro” jokes from the married guys, but they’re obviously only jokes - most of these guys really DO want to spend time with their families/significant others in spite of how much they enjoy playing the game. At least three of the guys have cut back on their raiding time recently because they’re missing out on valuable time with their young children.

So anyway, to answer your questions, 1) no, I don’t think that kind of relationship is very rare at all; 2) I think it’s a silly excuse but I’ve experienced cases where it was used in all seriousness – not because the girlfriend/wife/SO was insecure and demanding, but because the guy in question could be an insensitive cad; 3) There are plenty of cool women out there who would be compatible with you - don’t give up looking :slight_smile:

28

[QUOTE=Sofaspud]
I think I’m married to either Aangelica or burundi and they’re just very good at hiding their Doper personality from me at home. :smiley:

[/QUOTE]

Heh :slight_smile: My husband is an inveterate lurker - I think he only posts in the poker-game thread, and then rarely. He does show up at the Thursday game on a regular basis, though.

I will say that I’m starting to get a really pretty unfriendly vibe from Priceguy though - I’m starting to feel like a total freak because I’m a geek girl who likes MtG and computer games. Which is odd, because I thought I’d managed to outgrow the stage where I get embarassed about my hobbies when strangers are scornful.

29

[QUOTE=Aangelica]
I will say that I’m starting to get a really pretty unfriendly vibe from Priceguy though - I’m starting to feel like a total freak because I’m a geek girl who likes MtG and computer games.
[/QUOTE]
Huh? What did I do to give you that vibe? And what can I do to assure you that this vibe is entirely imaginary and should not only be erased from current existence, but erased from past existence as well?

30

[QUOTE=tdn]
Every single person that read that knows exactly what noise you mean.

[/QUOTE]

Whh-PSSHH!

31

Well, in the original thread I posted about two “preemptively whipped” people (I reckon they’re whipping themselves), my mother and one of my brothers.

But taking a look at that same brother’s group:

Littlebro. No gf but only cos the girl he wants doesn’t want to. He’s nuts about her and will try stuff she suggests, she’ll try stuff he suggests, both do stuff with other people; the first few times he tried something she suggested he did so reluctantly, now he does it with a lot more enthusiasm because so far every suggestion of hers that he’s tried has been good (starting yoga was the best thing he’s done for himself in ages). If the first things had been bad, not only would he not be following her suggestions but he probably wouldn’t be in love with her any more (judging by previous relationships).

Middlebro. Self-whipper.

E and E. They do lots of stuff together but it’s a case of “joined at the hip, the shoulders and about anywhere else.” They also do lots of stuff separatedly, but because this separate stuff tends to be on weekdays it’s less evident than the together stuff on weekends.

D and S. The thought of either of them being whipped is beyond hilarious, both are fighter bull stock - do not get in the middle if they’re having an argument, there will be no flying objects involved but both have strong tempers and spines you could use for master beams in a skyscraper. They do stuff together, they do stuff apart. Both have tried several of each other’s hobbies, at least enough to understand when it comes up in conversation; some have become common hobbies.

C. Single. I swear if he ever gets married it will be some girl’s idea and she’ll have to sneak it past him. Yo! Wake up!

A and N. Lots of stuff together, lots of stuff apart. Go out with the guys? No, A is more the type to be at somebody’s house putting together a new closet or fixing that dripping faucet. But anybody who thinks that’s N’s fault doesn’t know either of them… A just can’t stop fixing stuff unless you tie him down (he’s a truck mechanic).

R and S. Well, we’re all sure it’s her who initiates sex. We know it was her who decided that she was spending so much time at his house that it made more sense to move in officially. There was this time they were at his parents’ and his Da asked “so, are you two getting married or what? You’ve been together eight years!” R answered “oh, we’d never want to get married;” S looked at him and said “speak for yourself.” Dad said “boy, you’re my son but I swear you’re totally dumb. Did I ever drop you on your head?” R isn’t whipped, but he is a wet rag. In his relationship with her or with anybody. And whinny too…

32

Well, I have to admit when I look around me, I do see an awful lot of relationships where people seem to be joined at the hip. People who, before the relationship, were strong and independent that suddenly seem unable to go anywhere without their SO.

My husband and I do spend a great deal of time together, and there are times when I need him there, and times when he needs me… but we don’t really ask one another permission. We just inevitably end up spending our free time with one another, because we have shared hobbies and shared friends.

I might say, ‘‘Hey, I really have to go see my Dad this Saturday, because it’s been too long since I’ve visited. You are welcome to come, but I don’t want you to feel like you HAVE to come if you have something else you’d rather do.’’ At that point, he might ask how strong a preference I have that he come, or something. Usually he’ll end up coming along. The point is, I’ve communicated that I have decided to go whether he feels like going or not.

I do have expectations, however, in terms of reasonable warning if he wants to take off for an extended period of time. If my guy called me on a Friday afternoon and told me he was spending the entire weekend in another state with friends, I’d probably be a bit miffed, having had no time to make my own plans to entertain myself.

My husband is into video games, but not prone to addiction the way I am. His longest gaming streak is maybe 6 hours-- me, I once logged in a total of 16 in one day. I don’t do this very often, but I can definitely see how it could become a problem if I did. We have played video games together in the past as a way of bonding, but I think we’ve exhausted all the 2-player PS2 RPGs out there.

There is some kind of balance. I don’t believe the concept of ‘‘permission’’ is one that should exist in a healthy relationship, but I think sensitivity to the other person’s needs and feelings is also important as well. I would never want to be in a relationship where I felt trapped and obligated to spend time with someone. I need the freedom to do my own thing, and I reckon there are others out there like me.

33

[QUOTE=olivesmarch4th]
I don’t believe the concept of ‘‘permission’’ is one that should exist in a healthy relationship, but I think sensitivity to the other person’s needs and feelings is also important as well.
[/QUOTE]

As Aangelica pointed out in a slightly different context earlier, “permission” may just be shorthand for everything you talked about. It certainly is for my husband and me. “I need to ask my husband” is code for “I need to check our mutual schedules, make sure nothing of urgence or great importance has come up since the last time I checked, and ensure that this commitment won’t create a week in which we never see each other, not even once.”

Not related to scheduling, I also use “I need to talk to my husband before I make a commitment,” as a safeguard for myself against volunteering for everything in the world. If someone asks me to do something, I have a terrible habit of saying yes, and then discovering that I’m overcommitted and want to die just to get out of everything. I, not he, suggested that start speaking with him before I commit to any volunteer activities. It’s worked well. Often, by the time I speak to him, I’ve figured out whether or not I can handle it, and know what to do. Sometimes he points out that something may take more time than I think, and it might not be good for me. Either way, I’ve saved myself a lot of grief, and I’ve been able to fully participate in activities that I choose carefully and can commit to completely.

So it might look like I have a domineering husband who won’t let me commit to anything without getting permission, but that’s not what’s really happening.

The short version of all that is that you really can’t tell what’s going on in a relationship unless you’re in it, and what you perceive is happening might be completely off the mark. (You being the general you in this case, not directed at a specific person.)

34

[QUOTE=olivesmarch4th]

I might say, ‘‘Hey, I really have to go see my Dad this Saturday, because it’s been too long since I’ve visited. You are welcome to come, but I don’t want you to feel like you HAVE to come if you have something else you’d rather do.’’ At that point, he might ask how strong a preference I have that he come, or something. Usually he’ll end up coming along. The point is, I’ve communicated that I have decided to go whether he feels like going or not.

[/QUOTE]

This is exactly how I feel.. Luckily, the SO and I get along wonderfully and share 90% of our interests. In my little family, however, he keeps the schedules and knows all the dates, so I have to ask him.

35

[QUOTE=Nava]
Well, in the original thread I posted about two “preemptively whipped” people (I reckon they’re whipping themselves)
[/QUOTE]
Ah, just like the albino monk in The Da Vinci Code: whipping themselves, and not even getting laid in the bargain! :stuck_out_tongue:

36

[QUOTE=OneCentStamp]
Ah, just like the albino monk in The Da Vinci Code: whipping themselves, and not even getting laid in the bargain! :stuck_out_tongue:
[/QUOTE]

Ah no, given that there is a Nephew and there have been multiple talks about sex with the diverse principals, I can assure you Middlebro IS getting laid.

Mom isn’t, but then, Dad’s been dead seven years.

37

[QUOTE=StuffLikeThatThere]
As Aangelica pointed out in a slightly different context earlier, “permission” may just be shorthand for everything you talked about. It certainly is for my husband and me. “I need to ask my husband” is code for “I need to check our mutual schedules, make sure nothing of urgence or great importance has come up since the last time I checked, and ensure that this commitment won’t create a week in which we never see each other, not even once.”

Not related to scheduling, I also use “I need to talk to my husband before I make a commitment,” as a safeguard for myself against volunteering for everything in the world. If someone asks me to do something, I have a terrible habit of saying yes, and then discovering that I’m overcommitted and want to die just to get out of everything. I, not he, suggested that start speaking with him before I commit to any volunteer activities. It’s worked well. Often, by the time I speak to him, I’ve figured out whether or not I can handle it, and know what to do. Sometimes he points out that something may take more time than I think, and it might not be good for me. Either way, I’ve saved myself a lot of grief, and I’ve been able to fully participate in activities that I choose carefully and can commit to completely.

[/QUOTE]
Gosh, you’re my twin. My husband is always saving me from myself too. I like my husband.

But I think that a huge number of couples use this shorthand. I do, and I don’t think my friends or family think that I have a controlling husband. They say similar things. It just means that everyone has to check the schedule, that’s all.

38

[QUOTE=dangermom]
This is a very good explanation of just why WoW kills quite a few relationships. I have a friend whose husband plays, and at one point they came close to divorce over it. He has no friends in this city, even though there are lots of guys he would get along with, because he spends all his time online. I’m amazed at what she puts up with, frankly.

My husband plays video games quite a bit, and we’ve had to negotiate a bit over that, but on the whole he’s very willing to stop and do something else when I need him, and I try not to pull him off all the time. Balance and compromise!
[/QUOTE]

I just wanted to chime in to say that WoW doesn’t have to kill the relationship, provided the player can set his/her priorities straight. My husband used to raid two days during the week and then all day Sunday. He would also game throughout the week, since raiding requires materials, but it was really the raiding that ticked me off. Raiding is a strictly scheduled thing, so if it was a raiding night, that essentially meant that I didn’t talk to him that night because he would be too busy. Needless to say, not being able to talk to my husband after a full day of work made me upset. If you want to call that Wife Wrath, that’s fine, I guess that’s what it was. I brought it up numerous times over the course of two years. The schedule would change, sometimes things would slow down for awhile, but then they’d go back to the way they were. It was a very frustrating thing, and while our relationship was still strong, it was constantly being eaten away by this full-time “hobby” that was coming between us.

Then my husband quit graduate school and got a job that required 50+ hours per week. With that job, he got real friends for the first since we’ve moved here and he now goes out on Friday nights with them for happy hour. Because he’s working a lot more, he decided to cut back on raiding, so he only games Sundays now, which is fine with me because I get to spend Sundays with my sister. (Yes, I’m definitely one of those people who just doesn’t like to be alone.) My husband still games during the week, but it’s not a strictly scheduled thing anymore. If I’m playing volleyball and not getting home til midnight, he games, but if I get home earlier, we can decide to do something together instead. We also started doing day hikes on some Saturdays, something we both thoroughly enjoy, and so I’ve been getting the connection time with him that I need to be happy in the relationship.

I’m rambling at this point, I think, but my point is that a guy can play WoW/RPGs or whatever without incurring Wife/Girlfriend Wrath, even if that Wife/Girlfriend is the type who doesn’t particularly like alone time. The key is to let her know that she is a priority in your life, that you do want to spend time with her because you like her, and then show her that by actually following through. That doesn’t mean you can’t follow your hobby, but I do think that relationships are about compromise, and I think that’s especially true when it comes to making time for each other when you both have very busy lives.

39

Oh, I certainly agree; I never wanted to say that WoW is going to doom any relationship. But it can put a big strain on a couple, and there’s a reason people joke about women complaining that they never get laid anymore now that their husband is spending 6 hours a night playing.