Godammed GAMES!!! (relationship, not board)

The BBQ Pit
1

He tells me he just wants someone that’ll make him laugh, while whiping the tears of laughter from his eyes that I put there.

He tells me that I should date his friend, and then tells me I could do better. In fact, he tells me I should date any number of different men. He tells me I should just have meaningless sex. I tell him I don’t have meaningless sex, and that everything I feel is a larger than normal emotion, including big love and big hurt.

He tells me I remind him of his SISTER. This is after we have fooled around. While I thought about bringing this (hopefully) subtle difference to his attention, it seemed inapproriate, because we never discussed said making out. We spend 3 nights a week at work together, he tells me EVERYTHING, and we don’t discuss this?

AND he says he doesn’t “belive in games.” BULLSHIT!

And worst of all, I know none of it is malicious. He’s just terribly forthright and doesn’t censor himself. Unless what he really means is that I should date HIM, have meaninless sex with HIM, make HIM laugh. In which case, he is not being forthright, and is playing games, which might define him as malicious.

You know what I wish? I wish that we couldn’t lie. I wish we had to tell the total truth all the time. WAY too much of my time is spent trying to read between the lines and translate “man-speak” into English.

Fuck him. Men are more baffling than chicks any day. Our rules are simple: don’t take us for granted, and occationally consider our wellbeing. Their rules involve maximum sexual gratification for minimum commitment, like some grand poker game. Men complain that women are hard to understand? Newsflash, fellas. You’re just as baffling to us as we are to you.

Well, Swiddles is godammed tired of anteing up.

2

All due respect and everything, but it seems to me that you aren’t being particularly honest and forthright and game-free youreself. Not that I am accusing you of anything malicious, it’s evident that your motivation in being less than forthright is to protect your own heart, but still…why lay it all on him? Why is he the only one who has the responsibility to be real here?

Just a thought…

stoid

3

Swiddles,

Not all guys play games. I’m notorious for being open and honest. And I get fucked over on a regular basis.

And sex? Ha, I’m 25 and I still haven’t had sex.

So take it easy. You’ve blown off some steam with your rant, now think about what the problem really is, OK? I’m sure some sort of understanding can be reached with this guy.

4

Take his advice. After reading your post, I can’t understand why you would waste any more time on him. He’s either ignorant, immature, or both. If he doesn’t know when to keep his mout shut, he needs to learn.
On a different note (to respond to your rant about men) I think a lot of younger people (i.e. under 30) can’t see the forest for the trees. Young men really want sex, but don’t really want a committment. So they try to play the commitment angle to get what they want. Young women really want the security and satisfaction of commitment, without having to put out if they can avoid it.
I think what both genders want drws nearer to each other as people get older. This is why I try to avoid dating women under 30 now.

5

**

If you get fucked over on a regular basis it isn’t because you’re open and honest. If you constantly find yourself the object of being fucked over then you’re probably your #1 enemy.

Marc

6

**

Well that ought to be a clue as to how much he values you and any potential relationship he wants with you.

**

I hope he didn’t encourage you to date others or sleep around before you two fooled around. I hope, I hope, I hope. If that isn’t the case then we can just chalk this up to a case of bad judgement. That’s ok we all make dumb decisions but the important thing is to learn from them.

**

Sounds kind of fishy to me. I never encouraged a girl I liked to date my friends or to sleep around. In my mind that kinda makes him sound like a jerk.

**

If you’re trying to spend that much time reading into “man-speak” then you need to find other men to date. If you get to the point in a relationship where you can’t understand his “man-speak” then go ahead and get out.

**

I disagree. I don’t understand how my sister kept track of all the people she knew that were either friends or enemies when we were in high school. I don’t understand how she could hang out with people she didn’t like while both of them pretended not to hate one another. In my little world if I didn’t like the person I didn’t hang out with them.

If that’s the only kind of guy you’re finding then you’re part of the problem.

Marc

7

…or you could just try to date the mature, intelligent people. We do come in the ‘under-30’ model, you know.

8

Honestly, this guy is being about as obvious as possible regarding his feelings without flat out saying it. The reason you think it’s confusing is that you don’t want to believe the truth.

He isn’t interested. Period.

He’s telling you to date other people, he tells you that you remind him of his sister, he never talks about when you’ve fooled around in the past. Guys aren’t big on hinting, he doesn’t mean:

If that’s what he wanted, you’d know by now. If I’m wrong and that IS what he wants, forget him, he’s being an incredible asshole.

I’m seeing here a guy who cares about you, who likes you and wants you to be happy, but just isn’t interested in you as a GF. He probably knows that you feel this way about him, and is uncomfortable about it. That’s why he is suggesting you date other guys, he wants you to fall for someone other than him. I’ve been there, on both sides of the issue, it isn’t fun or easy for either party.

My suggestion, forget about this guy as a love interest, be friends if you like, but don’t bother with the rest of it.

9

Have you guys been friends a long time???

To me, there is nothing more complicated and potentially dangerous then sexual attraction that follows a friendship. There’s quite a lot at risk(like the friendship, if the attraction is not mutual). The normal rules of engagement do not apply. Perhaps he feels the attraction, but is unsure about how to proceed. Perhaps he fears that the attraction is not shared. Maybe he truly is oblivious(some of us are, ya know). I think you should flat-out tell him whats what and let the chips fall where they may.
Or maybe I’m just talking out of my ass…

10

People always want what seems to be beyond their reach. Things we acquire to easily are less appreciated. If he were interested in you, I wonder if you would be as interested in him once you had him? Just a thought.

11

As far as the game-playing and not knowing what he means thing goes…

Why not tell HIM everything you’ve told US? “Hey, man…we fooled around a little while ago, and I thought it was fun, but you’re sending me mixed messages. What gives?”

The best way to get someone to stop playing games with you is to not LET them play games with you…by cutting them off at the pass with forthright questions. At least, I’ve found this to be so.

12

Why do people play games?

I have a simple answer, probably too simplistic, but here goes:

The times in my life I’ve been accused of playing games is when I am not sure of someone. Maybe she is ok, maybe not, but I’m not man enough to just cut her loose. So I lead her on, then push her away in order to keep her at that ‘safe’ distance while I, weenie like, am keeping my options open for someone ‘better’ to come along. I imagine women to the same thing and have been on the receiving end more than once.

I haven’t done this is a long time (also married now, you know :slight_smile: ) but this is how I’ve seen it. I’m a big believer in ‘consistancy’. The love and attention should be reasonably consistant. If it’s not then either the other is mentally unstable (a likely possibility in my experience) or is doing the above paragraph to you. Either way, you don’t need any of that!

Blink

13

You’re all right. I recently came to the same conclusion as most of the rest of you: he either doesn’t know what he wants, or he does and it ain’t me. Either way, I don’t want to go there. And I won’t. Of course, it took my best friend to meet him and tell me the same thing. In her words: “Why waste your time on a manipulative ass when you can SOOO do better on a lot of levels?”

In my own defense, I oversimplified things. He really is far more baffling than my post lets on.

I think my personal problem lies in my little hang up. We all have them: no one’s perfect. Mine is that I want to be understood. Not entirely, just be with someone who gets the outline. I confused Assface’s ability to manipulate me with an ability to understand me.

The more I think about it, the more pissed off I get. Some kind of friend. feh. Asshole. Alright, I’m over him. For tonight.

An interesting concept, and one that I see happen again and again with friends. Except in my case, I wasn’t interested until we started fooling around. So I don’t think so.

Anyhoo, thanks for the reality check, kids. Did I mention he’s my coworker/superior and I have to work with him – alone – for three nights a week? Thank GOD I have another job I’m going to phase into. (ps: Blinking, I think you hit the nail on the head…)

14

Oh, if only that were true. I stopped believing it was so a while ago now.

15

Gah. I know that one all too well. I sympathize.

What’s this new job? Better? More cash?

16

Be careful, Swiddles. A few years ago a friend of mine got divorced. She told me at the time that she wanted her husband to be more active, assertive, more of a take-charge kind of guy. Maybe six months later she was telling me about how she asked him for the divorce, and that even though he didn’t want it, he went along with it.

I thought about what she had told me before and I asked her if she would have prefered if he had put up more of a fight, not given in to the divorce so easily. She said yes. And I really sympathized with guy. He did what I probably would have done, sacrificed to give her what she said she wanted (although if one person wants out of a marriage I’m not sure how much is truly being sacrificed).

I’m not sure exactly what lesson to draw from all this, except that I think my friend also wanted to be understood. There are guys who will listen to you, and there are guys who will give you what they think you ought to have, but I don’t know if there are any guys who will understand you better than you understand yourself.

And good luck at the new job.

17

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lux Fiat *
**

yes and yes. Waitressing at this Italian resturant owned by this guy named Frankie from Brooklyn. It’s like that resturant in Moonstruck, but I get to dress more casually. I couldn’t have asked for anything better. Beats the shit out of retail. And I get oodles of free food.

And Robot: I don’t expect anyone to know me better than I know myself. Just someone who has some rough outline. It’s hard to explain, I’ll know him when I meet him.

Day One of “I am soooo over you…” closing shift with Him went swimmingly. I think I’ll survive with only a slight deprechiation in dignity, a slight ding to my pride and a tiny hunk out of my self-esteem, all of which will repair.

Oh, and Lizard? Putting out isn’t the issue. I don’t know who you’ve been hanging out with, but I, for one, and plenty of healthy, mature women who are comfortable with thier sexuality have no problem “putting out” when it’s appropriate. But seeing as I, as a 21 year old, was four when AIDS was diagnosed, have been raised with a respect for sex. Plus, we chicks get 50 times the release of oxytocin, the bonding neurochemical that is also released in mother during birth, during orgasm. We don’t MEAN to get obsessive and clingy after sex – it’s just the neurochemical. So what you construe as sonme prudish fear of sex is a combination of not wanting to risk getting hurt emotionally or physically unless we can trust the fella. Frankly, what you describe sounds a tad bit more high schoolish than 20 something ish. Perhaps your judgemental attitude is more to blame than those of us mature, intelligent young things.

18

Well, that’s sad for you… but it’s true! it’s true! As a favor to me, try not to perpetuate your misperception.

and, for the record, SwimmingRiddles, how YOU doin’? (i know i’m new.) Mature, Intelligent, Available women in the proper age-range seem to be in shockingly short supply in these days. At least, in short supply in White-Lightning-Land. (see my soon-to-be-posted Pit thread.)

19

I lingered over my last sentence for a while, and it still didn’t come out exactly right. I’d just hate to see you fall into the same trap my friend did, even if I can’t explain what it is (I was about to ask if you understand, but that way lies madness). Maybe I should have written the story as a parable.

20

Ewwwww!

I’m sorry this happened to you Swiddles- but it seems you are better off without him. You are a beautiful person, inside and out, and it’s his loss.

As far as not believing in games- that’s like Wolfgang Puck not believing in food.

The meaningless sex thing is creepy too. I’ve always been celebate, so I’m somewhat uninformed, but I can’t imagine even kissing someone that I didn’t care about.

You deserve better. I’m sorry.