Religious questions (Christianity)

Factual Questions
1

First of all, these questions might appear to be ridiculous, but I am asking them in all seriousness. I am genuinely interested in knowing their answers, if available, or, if not, gathering relevant speculation regarding possible explanations to these inquiries.

Just so you don’t think that I am a freak for thinking about this stuff, let me brief you on how these doubts arose. My aunt, a devout Christian, is visiting this weekend. As usual, I like to tease her with stupid religious questions that she can’t answer, nor does she care about. After her failures to respond I jokingly reproach her on how her lack of knowledge symbolizes the weakness of her faith. In that vein, I asked her these questions which somehow, after positing them, awakened my curiosity:

Who was the centurion who nailed Jesus to the cross?

Did Mary stay a virgin after the virginal conception of Jesus Christ?

I realize the second one borders on the speculative, but I will be interested in whatever scholarly information might exist concerning this. Any rumors, scriptural interpretation, wild theories, whatever information that can shed some light on the subject, will be appreciated.

Mods: Feel free to move this thread to a more appropriate forum, if you consider it convenient. The reason I posted here is because the first question should have a definitive answer, that is, assuming the Romans kept this kind of records.

Wouldn’t it be ironic if Jesus’ adoptive father Joseph, being a carpenter, had been the one who made the cross Jesus was crucified on?

2

There is no way to know either answer.

No Roman except Herod is named in the Gospels. This includes the soldiers at the crucifixion, the soldiers guarding the tomb, and the officer who asked that his daughter be healed.

No names given, no names known.

As you note the second question is also speculative.

Two possible responses:

There are passages where the brethren of Jesus are mentioned and there is James, styled “brother of the Lord.” This indicates that Jesus had brothers, so to keep Mary virgin, one would have to have Joseph be a widower with prior kids (which fits none of the Gospel stories).

The RCC and a few other groups claim a tradition that Mary remained virgin and point out that the “brother” references could have been a loose term indicating family (including cousins) and that James could have had an honorary title.
People can get very worked up over either scenario, but we simply do not know.

3

:Excuse me, Quasar, but how does the inability to answer ridiculous questions symbolize a weakness in somebody’s faith? Would you consider a Muslim weak in his faith if he couldn’t tell you the name of the horse Abraham was riding when he (the horse) vaulted him (Abraham) into Heaven?

And while we’re on the subject, isn’t it, I dunno, kinda rude to expect someone (i.e., your aunt) to justify their beliefs just because they’re in your presence?

And as to your last question: Wouldn’t it be ironic if Jesus’ adoptive father had made the cross upon which Jesus was crucified? It would have transcended being ironic, on account of Joseph had probably been dead years by the time of Jesus’ crucifixion. John 19:26-27…

“When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, ‘Dear woman, here is your son,’ and to the disciple, ‘Here is your mother.’ From that time on, the disciple took her into his home.”

It would have been totally unnecessary (and a little weird) for John to have taken Mary into his home if she wasn’t a widow.

4

I sincerely hope your aunt understands that you’re only teasing. :frowning:

If you really want the Straight Dope on these questions, allow me to recommend this website. They know everything about this kind of religious stuff, even more than Cecil does (impossible though it may be to believe).

5

I dunno. There is no name given in any copy of the bible I own (I have several for study purposes – note this does not make me some kind of expert). I doubt it was a centurion in any case. A centurion was a commander of men (usually one hundred). One of his underlings would’ve had the job. The centurion who commanded him might not even have had to be present.

I doubt it. The Jewish people have a very healthy attitude towards sex in marriage. If Mary was such a good woman in all ways (as has been alleged – not that I’m arguing against this), she would not, in good conscience, have refused conjugal rights to Joseph. Besides, Jesus had a brother, James (as his name has been translated). Although it’s been theorized that Joseph had multiple wives, I’m not so certain. At that time, I think it wasn’t a common practice. Certainly Joseph wasn’t portrayed as being wealthy enough to afford more than one wife, in any case.

I believe that the Catholic Church promotes the belief that Mary was a virgin all her life, but I do not know if this is a literal virginity, or just another way to say she retained all the virtues attributable to a (good) virgin throughout her lifetime.

As far as judging someone’s faith on their knowledge of “trivia” that is remotely (at best) related to the faith itself, this is a logical fallacy (and I’m being kind). Would you think it laughable if someone who follows Indy racing doesn’t necessarily know the names of his favorite driver’s pit crew?

I’m sure there are other opinions than my own. Some of them might even be expert.

~~Baloo

6

How was answering a trivia question relate to faith? One is knowledge, the other is a belief. Totally seperate things exclusive of each other

7

Years ago, I used to hang out in a little beer joint pretty much every night. (Used to wake up with a hangover pretty much every morning, too, but that’s another story.) One of the regulars was a fanatical (no exaggeration) Catholic who told me about the Petronius Parchment. The parchment is alleged to be the confession of the Roman soldier who pierced Christ with his spear. He claimed this parchment is in the Vatican library.

Take it with a very large grain of salt. We were both pretty blasted. A quick search of the net didn’t turn up any Petronius except the author of the Satyricon. And, shucks, even a religious fanatic isn’t above pulling an unbeliever’s leg once in a while.

8

Rastahomie: Read first, rant second.

You wrote:

In response to this extract from my initial post:

The key word in the sentence being J-O-K-I-N-G-LY. Need I explain further?
As to her beliefs, I never asked her to justify them to be. Whether I share them or not is irrelevant, I respect them, nonetheless.

Speculative at best.

But, let’s follow your argument and see where it leads us, shall we? Even if we assume he was dead for a while at the time of the crucifixion, how do you know that they didn’t nail Jesus to an old cross? Did they order a brand new cross for every crucifixion? Aren’t crosses “recyclable”? Couldn’t they be used for several times until the wear from the constant hammering down on it affected the quality of the wood?

LOL!

BTW, thanks for your enlightening response. Give yourself a pat on the back, you really fought ignorance today. :rolleyes: Well, you didn’t actually. But at least you made me laugh. :slight_smile:

I assume from the tone of your post that you were offended by what I wrote. If you were, I won’t apologize, since the content of the OP wasn’t offensive in any way. I will, however, clarify to you and to whoever might share your perceptions that I did not intend to offend anyone. I was simply trying to evacuate a doubt to placate my curiosity. Eradicating my ignorance, if you will.

A piece of advice, don’t let your personal feelings obstruct your reason.Give each post the benefit of objectivity, read it thoroughly without assuming things that are not there. If still offensive, write politely to its author asking for a clarification. If civilized action does nothing to amend his/her ways, rant at will. Just be sure to do so after exhausting the avenues of argumentation provided by diplomacy and tactfulness.

Duck
Not to worry, she knows I am teasing.

Merry X-mas, and a happy new…Millenium!!!
For every reply to a post bearing this sig I am generously donating 1 cent to the International Center for the Cryogenic Preservation of Cecil Adams

9

There are apocryphal gospels, i.e., accounts judged unreliable and not accepted as part of the Bible by Christians. The apocryphal gospel of Nicodemus gives his name as Longinus. This same account gives the name of the “good” thief as Dysmas. You will occasionally see these names used in modern fiction.

There’s also an incident in this apocryphal gospel of Thomas of the child Jesus striking dead a playmate who provoked him!

10

Just to clarify, that is the Infancy Gospel of Thomas. The Gospel of Thomas is a collection of 114 sayings of Jesus that some scholars date as early as 50 CE, and has substantial value for understanding the historical Jesus. The Infancy Gospel is a later fiction, meaningless for historical purposes.

Finally, if you really want to cheese off a Christian, you can also bring up a great passage from the Gospel of Philip in which Jesus is criticized by his disciples for Frenching Mary Magdalene!

11

Cecil Adams: Did Jesus have siblings?

12

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Opus1 *
**

Huh? Please explain more about this–I’ve never heard of it!

13

Tomndeb- actually several Romans were named in the NT- Pilate, Quirinius, Augustus, etc. Herod was more of an Isrealite than a Roman. But none of those who assisted at the cruxifixion are named. Unlikely for a Centurion to actually do any dirty work- perhaps a Decurion (ie Sgt.)

However, since James, JC’s brother, figures prominently in the early Christian Chrch,it is very unlikely Mary remained a virgin. And, in Acts, not to mention Josephus, there is no indication that James was not a full brother to JC.

14

There not only is no indication that Mary remained a virgin, but the brothers and sisters are mentioned pointedly (Matthew 13: and coming to his own country he taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished, and said, “Where did this man get this wisdom and these mighty works? Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And are not all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all this?”).

Here, the entire point of the local populace is that Jesus can’t have authority to teach like he’s doing, because: He’s a local boy who everyobody (presumably) knows has little formal religious training. They know his whole, normal family.

(Personal opinion): I think this is another case of mis-applied meanings of “good” or “holy,” where in order for Mary to remain “good” she had to remain a virgin, as if doing so as a married woman had some inherent virtue. That concept has never been explained to me, and I’m sure I wouldn’t get it.

As has been said here, that in fact would seem to violate almost every Jewish custom, one indication being Paul’s willingness (only, what, 20 or so years later?) to state that a wife’s body is her husband’s, and a husband’s body is his wife’s.

15

Are you sure you don’t mean Muhammed? I wasn’t aware Muslims thought Abraham went to heaven on a horse.

(The horse that supposedly took Muhammed to heaven is traditionally named Al Borak, Arabic for “the lightning”.

16

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by AkashJ *
**

http://wesley.nnu.edu/noncanon/gospels/gosphil.htm

I’ll let you do the Find On This Page thing to see if you can find the episode in question. All I know about it myself is what Google told me–“Gospel of Phillip, here it is, enjoy!”

17

For AkashJ, the Gospel of Philip:

As you can tell, the text is quite difficult to understand. Philip is a Gnostic gospel. Gnosticism is sort of a mystical form of Christianity. It’s a bit difficult to understand, but the part about Jesus kissing Mary Magdalene on the lips is crystal clear.

18

The Teeming Millions commented on Cecil’s column: Jesus’ Siblings and Virgin Birth.

19

This is preaty clear that after Jesus’ birth, Joseph did have sex with Mary

20

Speaking of names not being given, I’ve often thought it was unfortunate that the man of Nabal who tipped off Abigail about how her husband had provoked
David isn’t named. Everybody else has all these elaborate names and are the son of somebody, but not this man. If he hadn’t told Abigail that her husband had insulted the messenger of David, she wouldn’t have prepared loads of raisins and figs to give him when he was coming to kill them all. David was appeased and later on married her. This is in I. Samuel 25.