Religious recruiting

[Lucky]

As one who does a great deal of chrity work (secular) in the Third World, I have to say I agree with Deacon. I do not think he was implying the Third World people are stupid, but to say that are ignorant is the absolute truth.

The majority of the people I work with have never been to school a day in their lives. They know nothing of world history, philosophy, geography, mathematics, astronomy (even so basic a facts as that the earth revolves around the sun) and on and on and on. They do not have televisions, there are no newspapers (not that they could read them if there were)and they have no radios. All they know is their own little village (which many have never left) and their own religion. Oh, and they know that all people in America are rich.

So here come the missionariers with their fancy equipment, nice clothes, the money to buy good food and build comfortable living quarters for themselves. Obviously they are rich. They begin to talk about how one must come to know Christ and have a personal relationship with him and that, if one does so, God will take care of them. Now I ask you, if you were living one scoop of rice away from starvation and some rich folks come to town and start telling you they know the way to salvation and that their god will take care of you, would you or would you not give their way a try? In my opinion, the missionaries clearly have the upper hand.

If you are more devote in your faith and aren’t so easily swayed, you will likely find that is no job for you at the new hospital/school–whatever, that the missionaries built. Now I’m sure that missionaries don’t intentionally favor the converts (well, maybe they do), but every mission camp I’ve seen seems to employ only those locals who have converted. There is apparently no room for someone who says, “No thanks. I’ve thought about it but I believe my religion is right”. It looks to me like it’s accept Jesus or you’re not getting any goodies. So the converts (many of whom in my experience are faking it), get good paying jobs with the missionaries and the rest of the people are out of luck. To be fair, I’ve never seen a mission that would not provide services (medical care) to non-Christians, just that they won’t get a cushy job in the laundry room. On the other hand, the mission schools will teach Christianity and so a parent is faced with the choice of providing an education that goes against their beliefs or leaving their child uneducated. Hardly a choice, in my opinion.

But what gets my goat the most is that I have found so many missionaries who don’t know jack squat about the relion of the people they are trying to convert. They refuse to learn about their religion because it is wrong, or the devil’s work or some such nonsence. They refuse to enter the temples. The won’t even have a discussion about beliefs except to quote the Bible. That pisses me off to no end. The arrogance is astounding.

And now that I’ve gotten so off topic, let me wrap it up by saying that I understand that Christians feel it is their duty to inform people about Jesus, I just wish they wouldn’t be so insistant that they have the ultimate truth when in fact, all they’ve got is the only “truth” they’ve ever looked at.

[Lucky]

(proofreed, proofread, proofread)

Sorry.

[Esprix]

Please note this would not, by any stretch of the imagination, refer to all Christians, but I’ll be that there are a portion that witness with the thinking that “if I constantly preach that I am right I will quell any doubts I might have about whether or not I really am” (also known as the “I don’t want to take responsibility for my internal monologue” routine). This is one of the many reasons I like Universalism, which teaches the (heretical) doctrine that, come Judgement Day, everybody’s going to Heaven regardless of beliefs on Earth, because God really is that all-loving and all-forgiving. (Please note I do not necessarily believe this myself from a purely Christian Heaven/Hell construct - I am not a Christian, but I do believe it doesn’t matter which faith one follows.)

And having been witnessed at many, many times, I find the whole “I love my neighbor so I must save him” philosophy to be the most prevalent (it is the driving force, believe it or not, behind Rev. Fred Phelps, the worlds nastiest homophobe).

Esprix

[Opus1]

Esprix:

This is one of the many reasons I like Universalism, which teaches the (heretical) doctrine that, come Judgement Day, everybody’s going to Heaven regardless of beliefs on Earth, because God really is that all-loving and all-forgiving.

Funny, the Universalists sure don’t think that they’re heretical. In fact, they have a bunch of Bible verses to back up their beliefs, just like the believers in Hell do.

[Opus1]

Shoot! I meant to add one more sentence to my last post but I accidentally posted it first. Oh well, here it is:

Maybe you don’t need to think of yourself as a heretic in order to be a Universalist.

[jmullaney]

*Originally posted by Opus1 *
In fact, they have a bunch of Bible verses to back up their beliefs, just like the believers in Hell do.

Hee, hee:

Below, is a list of 213 questions that will help to clarify God’s plan of salvation as set forth in the Holy Bible, so that when questions are asked, correct answers can be given.

Now that is funny.

---

“You call that mowing the lawn? Bad dog. No biscuit” – the Far Side

[Esprix]

Originally posted by Opus1

Funny, the Universalists sure don’t think that they’re heretical. In fact, they have a bunch of Bible verses to back up their beliefs, just like the believers in Hell do.

Sorry, should have made it clear that (a) it’s heretical to much of mainstream Christianity (and, indeed, was considered heretical when it began, an offshoot of Christianity itself); and (b) I was being facetious - many may consider it heresy, but I personally think it’s quite pleasant. One of the many reasons I certainly enjoy and embrace my UU faith and heritage.

Esprix

[jenkinsfan]

bio brat, I am probably what you consider a religious recruiter, although I see myself more like someone who was blessed enough to find true peace in my soul. My faith, the Baptist denomination, teaches us that Christ and only Christ can save us, so my witnessing to you or anyone else will get me zilch in regards to my salvation because I am saved through Christ not of any good that I can do. I invite you to try my faith for yourself by visiting the Baptist church in your area.

The choice is yours of course, and I won’t offer again to you personally because I don’t want you to feel pressured. And please know also that most Christians I know don’t hate anyone regardless of their religion. May God give you guidance.

[jmullaney]

But, jenkinsfan – no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Merely being born of water is not enough!

[Sterra]

Nice objection there jmanually, you really need to 1Talk about something relevant or 2 Tell us what your talking about instead of making bad claims.

[Guinastasia]

I think, what witnessing should be is, instead of simply saying, YOu have to become Christian-go out there and SHOW people that you are trying to follow in Christ’s footsteps.
Do good for other people. Doesn’t the Bible say that whatsoever you do for the least of my brother, that you do unto me?
In other words-just do unto others as you would have done unto you.

[David_B]

Chronos said:

Why do people insist on believing that Great Debates are ugly? GQ isn’t better or worse than GD

Thank you for defending us, Chronos.

[aside]
But GD is better. Nyah!
[/aside]

[iampunha]

*Originally posted by Guinastasia *
Doesn’t the Bible say that whatsoever you do for the least of my brother, that you do unto me?

The Bible says a helluva lot, Guin. The problem is that there are those who choose to ignore other passages or deem them “not as important” . . . there is a passage, for instance, that condems some people to stoning.

[MEBuckner]

A passage?

Just to respond to something from earlier in the thread (back when it was still a General Question):

I have no idea what Hindus, Muslims, etc. are supposed to do.

Muslims are pretty much the same as Christians; they seek converts (or at any rate, preach the Word of God at the infidels), for pretty much the same reasons–because God told them to, and to save the poor heathens from Eternal Hellfire. I don’t know if there’s a specific verse in the Qu’ran which corresponds to the New Testament “Great Commission” (Matthew 28:18-20). Hindus generally don’t go for that sort of thing, but there are the Hare Krishnas. Buddishm also at least originally was a “missionary” religion/belief system.

[jmullaney]

*Originally posted by Asmodean *
… or 2 Tell us what your talking about instead of making bad claims.

Bad claims? What are you talking about?

*Originally posted by Guinastasia *
I think, what witnessing should be is, instead of simply saying, YOu have to become Christian-go out there and SHOW people that you are trying to follow in Christ’s footsteps.
Do good for other people. Doesn’t the Bible say that whatsoever you do for the least of my brother, that you do unto me?

That is the way it should be done, Guin. Like St. Francis said: “Teach the Gospel everywhere you go and if need be use words.”

(as for the stoning – Jesus made fairly clear Leviticus isn’t divinely inspired. Just a book made up by yahoos which threw a wrench in the works)

[Esprix]

Originally posted by jmullaney

… Jesus made fairly clear Leviticus isn’t divinely inspired. Just a book made up by yahoos which threw a wrench in the works)

Cool! That means nobody can throw Leviticus 18:22 or 20:13 in my face again! Woo hoo!

Esprix

[puddleglum]

Do you have a cite for the assertion about Leviticus?

[jmullaney]

*Originally posted by Esprix *
Cool! That means nobody can throw Leviticus 18:22 or 20:13 in my face again! Woo hoo!

As far as I’m concerned.

1 Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said,
2 “Why do your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat.”
3 He answered them, “And why do you transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?
4 For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him surely die.’
5 But you say, ‘If any one tells his father or his mother, What you would have gained from me is given to God, he need not honor his father.’
6 So, for the sake of your tradition, you have made void the word of God.
7 You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said:
8 ‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;
9 in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’”
10 And he called the people to him and said to them, “Hear and understand:
11 not what goes into the mouth defiles a man, but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”
12 Then the disciples came and said to him, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”
13 He answered, “Every plant which my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up.
14 Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”
15 But Peter said to him, “Explain the parable to us.”
16 And he said, “Are you also still without understanding?
17 Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and so passes on?
18 But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a man.
19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander.
20 These are what defile a man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”

Washing your hands when you eat is one of the 620-odd rules in Leviticus (I seem to recall it is the last one on the list). If it is merely a precept of man taught as a doctrine of God, that calls into doubt the whole book. If that rule is not divinely inspired, why assume any of the rest of the book is in any way a “plant which [God] planted”? Elsewhere Jesus decries stoning another practice which features prominently in that book. One might argue legalistically that Jesus only meant certain parts of the Book were not from God, and others might say this indicates that God has changed. But I say it is planted there by man.

So next time that comes up, Esprix, just brush it aside as a precept of man taught as if it were a doctrine of God, grin like a maniac, and wonder out loud whether your fundalmentalist friend might actually have read the Bible at some point.

[jmullaney]

Oops, since you asked for a cite, puddleglum – that is Matthew 15 (also akin to Mark 7)

[douglips]

*Originally posted by jmullaney *So next time that comes up, Esprix, just brush it aside as a precept of man taught as if it were a doctrine of God, grin like a maniac, and wonder out loud whether your fundalmentalist friend might actually have read the Bible at some point.

**

Or my favorite: Ask them if they eat lobster or pork rinds, or wear cotton/poly blend underwear! It’s only an abomination unto the Lord if it says so in Leviticus and it conveniently scapegoats a group of the ‘other’.