Hamlet:
I invite you to do you your own research, according to your own criteria on your own.
You’re still trying to count up anecdotes, which is both ridiculous, and makes your strategy of hanging onto that comical Breitbart list for dear life, incredibly obvious. Counting up anecdotes just means that whoever has the most time to waste wins – it would be trivially easy (though very time consuming) to go on twitter and find hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands of instances of Republicans (or anyone else) fomenting violence and hatred.
Real data about violence is crime statistics, terrorism statistics, shootings, etc. And that does not go in the favor of the conservatives right now.
Great. How about we set it at murder:
““Marilyn Mayo, senior research fellow for the Anti-Defamation League’s Center on Extremism, said that statistics show that radical leftists have been dramatically less likely to kill people than their counterparts on the opposite side of the political spectrum. Over the past decade, extremists of every stripe have killed 372 Americans. 74 percent of those killings were committed by right wing extremists. Only 2 percent of those deaths were at the hands of left wing extremists””
"Alex Nowrasteh, an immigration policy analyst at the libertarian Cato Institute, has calculated that “terrorists inspired by Nationalist and Right Wing ideology have killed about 10 times as many people as Left Wing terrorists since 1992.”
“A 2015 survey of U.S. law enforcement groups found they consider anti-government violent extremists to be a more severe threat than radicalized Muslims. And while jihadist terrorists have killed 95 people in the U.S. since 9/11, far-right extremists have killed 68 during the same time, including the car attack in Charlottesville.”
Scylla is going to vote Republican and he gets to blame it on Liberals.
Conservatives have been doing this since Trump. But, but, but if liberals weren’t so mean/condescending/whatever we wouldn’t have voted for Trump.
IT’S ALL SOMEONE ELSE’S FAULT!
You did not produce this. I looked carefully at your links. It’s not there. I have also looked on my own. I have not found it.
In order to understand a statistic, you need to know what goes into it. Your latter cite counts the following as domestic terror attacks from right wing groups:
-
White supremacist stabs a black man
-
White supremacist harasses teen girl, and stabs two people who attempt to intervene.
Those are given as representative examples of what is in your “statistics.”
So, I ask myself, in good faith the following:
-
Seeing as the context of our discussion is violence and hate speech from the left directed at the right, and vice versa, are these examples of what we are talking about? I don’’t think so. Do you honestly think so?
-
Do Republicans “own” racists and Nazis?
No. They don’t.
In looking at both the left and the right I have focused solely on incidents where people have been targeted because of political affiliation. That is what we are talking about.
That Nazis and racists of all stripes are sick misguided violent assholes, does not need to be proven, and is not what we are talking about.
Your attempts to change the discussion and move the bars and refuse to consider evidence that you don’t Like in order to avoid the inevitable conclusion that you are flat out wrong is transparent,
What are you trying to convince us of, anyway?
You jumped in saying you were looking forward to voting Democrat but now can’t because you can’t reward all the violence of Democrat supporters.
100 posts later, we’re arguing about exactly how much violence is perpetrated by radical leftists and radical rightists.
The net of it is that you will reward the party supported by white supremicists and gay-hating zealots because you can’t find quite as many anecdotes of violence (which apparently includes yelling mean words) as you can for the other side.
Hamlet:
Your quote should come with a link.
Anyway, you would not need to prove the thesis you are making to me.
If you are asking who has killed more since 1992, the extreme left, or the extreme right, I think there is little question of who has done what.
I have never been arguing against that.
What I have been arguing is that roughly since 2016, violence, violent rhetoric, and harassment from the left targeting the right has been far greater than the other way around.
This is specific and defined. Saying more murders have occurred from the extreme right than from the extreme left since 1992 does not address or refute my argument. You are arguing something else.
“
What I have been arguing is that roughly since 2016, violence, violent rhetoric, and harassment from the left targeting the right has been far greater than the other way around.“
I’ve been saying it over and over since my first post here.
Confirmation bias about what?
“One today against Democrats” was at best an unclear summary. No amount of arguing will change that.
dailywire.com is a right-wing nutjob website. No amount of arguing will change that, either.
The Republican party (those in office) has explicitly allied itself with white supremacists and neo-nazis in the last year or two. That’s very recent and in the present (in the past few decades the “alliance” was much less explicit and fuzzy), and most in office are going along with it (at best, some simply ignore it and pretend it’s not happening) even as they might occasinoally make feeble objections to pretend the contrary.
So yes, those instances absolutely count. Pretending there’s no link, when the rise of white supremacist violence is happening at the same time the Republican party leadership is praising white supremacists and attacking immigrants, is not credible.
Further, it jibes entirely with many of the instances in your silly Breitbart list – some random extremist that Breitbart decides counts as a left-wing person that harasses or threatens some other random person that Breitbart decides counts as a conservative.
And it’s entirely false, as the statistics that have been cited demonstrate. Since 2016, the extreme right has been far more violent than the extreme left.
There goes the neighborhood…
So? This is a left-wing nut job website. Have you not noticed?
I have addressed this directly at least 4 times.
You have not shown me statistics. You have shown me a news story with someone quoting statistics. These are not the same.
The statistics being quoted do not appear to be directly pertinent to the discussion at hand.
Kapische?
Iiiandyii:
You can look at it very simply:
-
How many Republican elected officials have been physically attacked versus Democrats?
-
How many Republican elected officials have been doxxed, or publicy harassed versus Democrats?
-
How many Republican officials are calling on their base to publically harass Democrats versus the other way around?
They did. When I gave them to you earlier in the thread. Which I’m sure you know, because you read them before rejecting them out of hand because they didn’t prove your cherry picked point.
And, as I’ve said before, that’s a highly convenient, inane, unprovable, and absolutely useless point. Why 2016? Is that when you suddenly realized that hey, maybe I should make my decision on which party to support based on violence and rhetoric? Up until that point, you seemed absolutely fine with the violence, threats, and actual murders on the right. But magically, in 2016, you decided that’s gonna be the hill you die on?
Nope. You chose it because of the Breitbart article and your desperate need to cling to a moral high ground that isn’t there that will let you support the Republican party. It’s the epitome of post hoc rationalization. You want to support Republicans and be considered moral and honorable, but you know that’s not going to happen. So you buy into this myth that the right wing talking heads fed you, you find one piece of information that helps you refine your “point”, and use specious evidence to support it.
It refutes your already decided “conclusion” that you are going to vote Republican because liberals are bad. The idea that you are more concerned about a very specific sliver in time with very specific, hand picked rules more than you are the murder of people, is just another one of your pathetic rationalizations you use to try and convince yourself it’s OK to support Republicans. Even if I were to concede your point (which I don’t), it would be meaningless.
For the sake of argument, let’s say that you’re 100% right.
There is no incentive, or value, in harassing the party that isn’t in power. Why would someone camp out in front of Chuck Schumer’s house and yell shit at him if he doesn’t have the power to go to the can without ol’ Mitch’s approval? Does it make sense to yell at a Democrat and complain about all the stuff he’s NOT doing because he’s basically an empty suit?
I’m going to kick a Clinton supporter out of my restaurant because Clinton, did what? Did she tweet something stupid from her house in Chappaqua?
Republicans aren’t violently complaining because… THEY WON… They are getting literally everything they dreamed of. Rich people got their tax break. Illegals are being harassed at the border. Obamacare is being neutered. Right wing radical judges are on the Court. The Senate is talking about cutting entitlements.
Times are GREAT for Republicans, you hold the Presidency, both houses of the Legislature, and a majority of the Supreme Court. They’re going to take to the streets and start burning garbage? Why would they?
Well, as long as you’re here, it’s at least to some extent a nutjob site. Can’t argue with you there.
I was totaling up the number of people killed by white supremacists, neo-Nazis, and the like in the incidents documented by the SPLC for 2017 and 2018. The total came to 36 killed and at least 43 injured.
ETA: As best as I can tell from a quick scan, there have been zero deaths during that period in the incidents listed by Breitbart.
Hammie:
You put up a dozen links in this thread. If you are going to quote one, it would be nice if you say which one. That’s what i’m Saying. Your response suggests you don’t think this reasonable.
I have also argued that the left has been getting pretty aggressive recently. I’ve mentioned it in more than one thread we have both participated in. Several times I said 18 months.
Several times I also said that I voted against Trump, and was planning on voting for Dems in November. I specifically cited my reason for change as the recent aggression that has been growing from the left.
This should all be pretty straightforward and consistent.
I have produced evidence to support that what I am saying is happening is in fact happening.
Those are the facts.
Now you are saying that I actually always intended to vote Republican and am trying to justify my stance after the fact because I don’t Think that statistics on domestic terrorizing going back to 1992 have much to do with what I have argued.
You are saying that insisting on recent events in the last two years is arbitrary, when it is in fact actually integral to my argument.
No. sorry. I have been extremely consistent.