Republicans' war on transgender people: Omnibus thread

[filmore]

@k9bfriender

How about a link to it, rather than “said something like” and then complaining about what words you thought you may have heard and not heard?

Here’s the newscast. The segment is 10:00 in:

Nightly News Full Broadcast (June 3rd)

My transcript:

Sarah Warbelow, Human Rights Campaign Legal Director
“Children aren’t having surgery. We are talking about things like puberty blockers. To suggest that transgender kids are having irreversible medical care is simply false.”

“DeSantis Surgeon General is sending a letter to the medical board seeing a new standard of care, saying ‘I recommend against certain pharmaceutical, non-pharmaceutical, and surgical treatments for gender dysphoria.’”

Warbelow’s statement that “Children aren’t having surgery” is false, because children do have breast reduction for a variety of reasons. The comment about irreversible care is either false or not exactly correct. Puberty blockers can be stopped, but the effects cannot be reversed so the person goes back to the point before treatment began. Sure, we can do a bunch of wordsmithing to thread the needle about what was said and what was meant, but this statement is not really great at enlightening anyone or changing anyone’s mind in the general audience of the nightly news. These vague, wishy-washy statements are pliable and the listener will shape them to whatever they want to hear. And they are red meat to the right wing since they can take them verbatim and dissect them as I did.

And the news segment also said that DeSantis’ Surgeon General was trying to get the medical standards changed. I doubt if anyone who has the viewpoint of “medical experts opinions should be respected” will fall in line with guidelines that prohibit these treatments even if they are supported by “experts”.

And with regards to wanting people to take these vague statements and do their own research, there is a ton of propaganda and fake news out there. It’s very likely that someone doing their own research will end up down some anti-trans rabbit hole. That is assuming that they do any research at all. I doubt that hardly anyone watching that news broadcast did any research after the segment was over.

[Atamasama]

@filmore

These vague, wishy-washy statements are pliable and the listener will shape them to whatever they want to hear.

What isn’t a “vague, wishy-washy statement” in your mind? Because honestly filmore, you are making “vague, wishy-washy” complaints.

[filmore]

She should have said something like “Genital surgery in children is not something legally allowed and not something the trans community encourages for children. Florida is trying to block access to reasonable procedures like hormone treatments out of a misdirected concern for children’s well being. These treatments greatly increase a trans child’s quality of life and mental health and should not be prohibited.” Certainly the right can pick apart anything, but statements like these are going to be harder to take out of context or twist around compared to what she said.

[ekedolphin]

Don’t forget that Florida is also trying to block gender-affirming care for all Medicaid patients, regardless of age.

[k9bfriender]

@filmore

Sure, we can do a bunch of wordsmithing to thread the needle about what was said and what was meant, but this statement is not really great at enlightening anyone or changing anyone’s mind in the general audience of the nightly news.

What you are doing is “wordsmithing” to try to change what was said and was meant in order to claim it to be false.

@filmore

These vague, wishy-washy statements are pliable and the listener will shape them to whatever they want to hear. And they are red meat to the right wing since they can take them verbatim and dissect them as I did.

They are not vague or wishy washy at all. Only to someone who wants to take things out of context and misrepresent them in bad faith would find them to be so.

I mean, there are people like you who will take things out of context and misrepresent them in bad faith as you do, but that’s your fault, not the trans community’s.

@filmore

And the news segment also said that DeSantis’ Surgeon General was trying to get the medical standards changed. I doubt if anyone who has the viewpoint of “medical experts opinions should be respected” will fall in line with guidelines that prohibit these treatments even if they are supported by “experts”.

Who appoints the state surgeon general? Why do you imply that he is an expert on transgender issues?

@filmore

And with regards to wanting people to take these vague statements and do their own research, there is a ton of propaganda and fake news out there.

Which you seem to willfully and gleefully spread.

@filmore

It’s very likely that someone doing their own research will end up down some anti-trans rabbit hole.

Seems you did, and you are digging it deeper with every bit of might you can muster.

@filmore

That is assuming that they do any research at all. I doubt that hardly anyone watching that news broadcast did any research after the segment was over.

Probably not, as she seemed to answer the questions pretty fully and unambiguously, so there wouldn’t need to be much research done. Not unless someone was trying to seek out anything they could nit pick and call false after taking it out of context, as you have done.

@filmore

She should have said something like “Genital surgery in children is not something legally allowed and not something the trans community encourages for children.

I’m sure if she had, you would have complained that she didn’t talk about hormone treatment or something else. The problem is, you will never be satisfied, as she is talking about something that you are against.

@filmore

Florida is trying to block access to reasonable procedures like hormone treatments out of a misdirected concern for children’s well being.

Based on the sort of misinformation that you have been promoting.

@filmore

Certainly the right can pick apart anything, but statements like these are going to be harder to take out of context or twist around compared to what she said.

I’m sure you would have found fault there too. So, she is not a perfect being with perfect extemporaneous speech writing and delivery skills, and doesn’t answer every question you have, even the ones not asked, with every statement that she makes.

That you would even try to play that into whatever the fuck it is that you are claiming just exposes you for what you are.

[China_Guy]

@filmore

Puberty blockers can be stopped, but the effects cannot be reversed so the person goes back to the point before treatment began.

Puberty blockers effects are reversible. Simplistically, all puberty blockers do is delay the onset of puberty. One use case is to delay the onset of puberty until a child is older or even an adult. So, you don’t continue to rathole on definitions, it is correct that the child does not go back 100% to where they were before puberty blockers started because they can be years older at that point. But when puberty blockers are stopped, then puberty resumes from that later age.

Do a simple search on Are Puberty Blockers Reversible

"Puberty blockers only pause the production of testosterone and estrogen hormones. Once a person stops using this medication, their body begins production once more, leading to the development of breasts and facial hair."

[kenobi_65]

@filmore

And the news segment also said that DeSantis’ Surgeon General was trying to get the medical standards changed. I doubt if anyone who has the viewpoint of “medical experts opinions should be respected” will fall in line with guidelines that prohibit these treatments even if they are supported by “experts”.

DeSantis’s surgeon general, Dr. Joseph Ladapo, is, frankly, a quack.

He gained fame in 2020 for being among the group of doctors who were espousing sketchy and ineffective treatments for COVID (and becoming darlings of Donald Trump in the process). Among other things, he has publicly indicated that he doesn’t support COVID vaccines for "healthy children," and opposed rules to make kids who test positive for COVID stay home and quarantine, rather than being allowed to go to school.

Last year, when he was meeting with a Florida state representative, the representative asked that he wear a mask during their meeting, as she was undergoing treatment for breast cancer, and had a weakened immune system. Dr. Ladapo refused, stating that he could not communicate clearly while wearing a mask.

In addition, his former supervisor at UCLA told the state of Florida that she was not interested in re-hiring him, as well as this:

Question: “Would you recommend the applicant for employment as a surgeon general of Florida and confidence in his ability, honesty and integrity to perform related duties?” Answer: “No. In my opinion the people of Florida would be better served by a surgeon general who grounds his policy decisions and recommendations in the best scientific evidence rather than opinions.”

[Riemann]

@filmore

Puberty blockers can be stopped, but the effects cannot be reversed so the person goes back to the point before treatment began.

@China_Guy

it is correct that the child does not go back 100% to where they were before puberty blockers started because they can be years older at that point

I mean, the entire point is that they delay a process that is much more irreversible. So to object that they are not perfectly reversible is perverse, and loaded with the transphobic assumption that the most likely path to health and happiness for a young person with gender dysphoria is to continue through puberty.

[Broomstick]

@filmore

Puberty blockers can be stopped, but the effects cannot be reversed so the person goes back to the point before treatment began.

What the fuck do you think puberty blockers do? They halt puberty and when stopped puberty resumes. What “permanent effects” are you blathering about? A kid starts menstruating at 18 instead of 12? A kid starts growing a beard at 18 instead of 14? These are not new drugs, they’ve been used in children for many decades fro precocious puberty and idiopathic short stature and there are many adult, including those in middle age now, who underwent treatment as children. No long term effects have jumped out although yes, as with any medical treatment, there is some risk of unintended side effects but honestly if it was anything common it would be apparent by now.

About the only for-sure thing is under development of the penis is a possibility (not a sure thing) leading to potential problems with constructing a vagina for a young trans woman, but even that is not an insurmountable - there are techniques to construct a vagina in people who were either born entirely without one or who have lost theirs to disease or accident. And if the person decides nope, not a trans woman after all then removal of the puberty blocker and resumption of the body’s hormones will allow normal penile development for a man.

Oh, and one other thing - because puberty blockers delay puberty the child continues to grow during those years, so the person might wind up an inch or two taller than they might otherwise (which is the very reason they have a use for idiopathic short stature). Big whoop.

So, again, what the fuck are these “irreversible” things that puberty blockers are doing?

[filmore]

I was inferring she meant all hormone related therapies by the term “puberty blockers”. I would guess that puberty blockers alone without associated hormone therapy would be uncommon as a trans therapy. I thought puberty blockers generally went hand-in-hand with hormone therapy. But before mentioning that I shouldn’t have made that inference, keep in mind that she also said “Kids aren’t having surgery.” We have to infer that she’s talking about genital surgery specifically related to trans therapy and doesn’t mean that kids don’t have surgery at all for anything. As DeSantis is trying to block both puberty blockers and hormone therapies, I’m assuming she’s against blocking hormone therapies as well even though she didn’t specifically mention that. So I assumed she was referring to all hormone therapies.

I think the term “reversible” is technically fine, but it’s not going to be the case that all the differences brought on by puberty and hormone therapies are reversible. If there’s a set of identical twins and one has trans therapies and one doesn’t, I would assume that there were continue to be marked difference even if the trans twin stopped therapies. It’s not reversible in that the twins would once again be as identical as if one never did therapy. But like you said, big woop.

And I would have to assume that her mention about irreversible care was about all trans treatments for kids rather than just specifically about just puberty blockers. There are some treatments trans kids do that are irreversible, like breast reduction. True there are breast augmentations to restore the shape, but the augmented breasts will not be be the same as natural breasts and may not be able to produce milk depending on what was done during the reduction.

[Chronos]

So, here’s an example of someone directly saying, in clear and simple terms, on the news, exactly what you claim they aren’t saying. And you’re using this as proof that they aren’t saying it?

[China_Guy]

@filmore

I would guess that puberty blockers alone without associated hormone therapy would be uncommon as a trans therapy. I thought puberty blockers generally went hand-in-hand with hormone therapy.

Could you just stop with the uniformed (nay ignorant) opinions and actually look at medical fact? This “just asking questions”, “IMHO” and general mouthing off of things that you obviously haven’t bothered to even google and research at a basic level is getting really tiring and implies a lack of good faith, komrade.

[crowmanyclouds]

@filmore

I was inferring {…} I would guess {…} I thought {…} We have to infer {…} So I assumed {…} I think {…} I would assume {…} I would have to assume {…}

Houston? We have found the problem.

[ekedolphin]

Is this sealioning?

[Banquet_Bear]

@filmore

I’m saying I’m not an expert since trans supporters don’t seem to be very forthcoming on their stance.

…you were an active participant in that JK Rowling thread. And in almost every single thread I read here about transgender people, you inevitably pop up to give us your opinion.

It is impossible for you to not have been exposed to trans supporters being extremely forthcoming on their stance. You are just hearing what it is you want to hear, that’s all.

[GreysonCarlisle]

@ekedolphin

Is this sealioning?

Nah. It’s just the filmore show.

[Miller]

@filmore

…statements like these are going to be harder to take out of context or twist around compared to what she said.

I’m sure you’d figure out a way to do it, you disingenuous dog fucker.

[Atamasama]

It’s concern trolling, I called it way back.

I’m sure filmore is just broken up about how much “they” are trying to take away the ability to provide for trans youth.

[BigT]

@filmore

I’m saying I’m not an expert since trans supporters don’t seem to be very forthcoming on their stance.

You’ve been told repeatedly that this isn’t true. In fact, I pointed out that it is a logical impossibility: if trans people weren’t forthcoming on this, there wouldn’t be multiple people in this thread who already knew.

Trans people have talked about this. They talked about this even before the Republicans decided to start lying about it. And they bring it up now every single time it comes up. You had even seen it yourself in that news article.

Plus, if you admit you’re not an expert, then why the fuck do you keep coming into Pit thread trying to tell those who know more that they’re wrong? Why do you still need to have your personal ignorance blamed on trans people if you don’t see them as inferior.

The non-bigoted way to respond would be to apologize for your lack of knowledge and try to learn. Not try to insist that it’s trans people’s fault you didn’t know.

[SunUp]

Another issue with filmore finding fault with what the legal director said in that segment is that we don’t know everything she said in that interview. It was edited by some NBC producer to be punchy and move quickly in the two-minute time frame that they had for an assortment of issues relating ways that Governor DeSantis is trying to own the libs.

If Sarah Warbelow did give the filmore-approved spiel on the issue in that interview, it still wouldn’t have been shown as long as they had a shorter, punchier sentence that the producer thought still got to the gist of the issue.

tl;dr News shows don’t do nuance; to expect them to is folly,