At the end of the movie, where Joe comes in to the warehouse to identify the rat and to shoot him, there is a three-man shootout.
As far as i can tell, Joe has his gun pointed at a prone and bleeding Mr. Orange. Mr. Orange has no bullets left in his gun (he emptied them out on Mr. Blonde), so he isn’t pointing a gun at all. Mr. White is pointing his gun at Joe, and Nice Guy Eddie is pointing his gun at Mr. White. When the shooting starts, Joe shoots Mr. Orange, Mr. white shoots Joe, and Eddie shoots Mr. White.m so, who shoots Eddie? Does Mr. White get a second shot off? I don’t see it, but I can’t figure out who else could have shot Eddie.
Anyone have the video that they can slow this down on and tell definitively?
Watch the scene again. White knows he’s going to have to make two shots before the shooting begins. He quickly aims and shoots Eddie right after firing his first shot at Joe. Eddie fires his shot at White almost simultaneous with White’s shot at Eddie.
O.K., I’m rewatching this scene when I get home. Maybe my mind just filled in the blank and created a visual of White turning and taking aim at Eddie after his Joe shot, but that’s what I saw (or “saw”) on first viewing and I’ve seen it that way ever since.
When I rewatch tonight, if it’s as obvious as I remember it being I’m going to come back to this Thread and make fun of the rest of you.
If I do not see it the way I’ve always remembered it, I will come back and sheepishly apologize.
Me neither – and even after re-watching the film clip, it’s obvious that Mr. White does fire his gun a second time in the general direction of Nice Guy Eddie. (Sure, NGE does start to fall before Mr. White fires his gun, but c’mon, how many low-budget movies have that kind of discrepancy?)
In my mind, the major plot hole is why Mr. White threatens to kill Joe & Eddie in the first place. For what – to protect a goon he’d never met before the heist? Especially since Joe flat out tells Mr. White that
Mr. Orange is an undercover cop.
That part of the ending never sat well with me. Fantastic movie otherwise, though.
See, I never had a problem with that. By that point in the movie I totally believe that Mr. White truly loves Mr. Orange- not that I would expect a tough gangster to actually use the word “love” to describe his feelings for another man. Mr. White’s a bit of a softy as gangsters go anyway. They only knew each other a few days, but they bonded pretty deeply (also the reason Orange feels burdened to confess to White). White has come in such a short time to feel very paternal to Orange, he sees himself in Orange in many ways and finds joy in mentoring him.
Mr. White loved Mr. Orange. It was a love he felt was pure, something worth defending even in the face of logic. Joe had to be mistaken, Joe had to be lying- if Joe wasn’t lying then White’s love for Orange was a lie. White’s truth that his love for Orange was pure needed to be defended.
He actually tells him he tipped off the cops - he has no idea he is a cop.
In addition to what bienville said, Joe has no proof other than " he was the only one I wasn’t a hundred percent on." For Joe it’s a bit of logical deduction and instinct - for a Mr. White inclined to protect Orange after bonding with him, it’s nonsense because there is no real proof at all.
Eddie falling before the shot only means that the Foley artist (person in post-production that adds the sounds) had to choose between putting the gunshot in when actor Chris Penn started his fall or put it in when actor Harvey Keitel was in a position to fire. It’s an imperfect art, folks. Protesting that Eddie fell before the shot is just looking for nits to pick.
Eddie didn’t fall before the shot, Chris Penn fell before the shot.
What the hell is wrong with you!?!?!?
Just watched it and replayed it a few times:
[li]Joe shoots Orange[/li][li]White shoots Joe[/li][li]White pivots toward Eddie[/li][li]Eddie shoots White[/li][li]White reacts to his gunshot wound and shoots Eddie[/li][li]Joe falls, White falls, Eddie falls[/li][/ul]
Everyone gets shot and nobody falls before they are shot. The whole “Eddie falls before the gunshot” thing is nonsense. The prop guns all visibly fire (I don’t know the proper gun terminology for the fiery flash out of the barrel). The visible gun fire is perfectly synced with the sound of the gunshot. All the actors’ reactions follow the shot that they are hit by.
In fact, considering how fast it all has to happen, it’s actually quite beautifully orchestrated.
All four shots are fired in one second.
In that one second:
[li]Lawrence Tierney fires his gun[/li][li]Harvey Keitel fires his gun in response to Tierney’s shot[/li][li]Tierney reacts to being shot, clutches himself, slumps[/li][li]Keitel pivots toward Chris Penn[/li][li]Penn fires his gun[/li][li]Keitel reacts to getting shot and fires his gun at Penn[/li][li]Penn falls immediately backward off his feet[/li][li]Penn is the first one who hits the floor[/li][li]Keitel falls to his knees immediately after firing at Penn[/li][li]Tierney (slumped when he was first shot) falls to one knee then falls to the floor[/li][li]Keitel falls to the floor[/li][/ul]
That had to have taken a lot of rehearsal and in the end they pulled it off perfectly.
It may well be the most action packed second in all of film history.
A few other things that happen in that one second:
Tim Roth reacts to his gunshot, his body violently rolls with the impact. Both Tierney and Keitel have squibs that explode when they’re shot (special effects “blood explosives” in the actors’ costumes to simulate a gunshot wound). Penn may be pulled backward by a cable but it’s also possible he did the fall on his own unaided by a stunt team.
So, add Roth into the people who have to be on during that second. Add also the squib operators whose timing had to be perfect. Add also (possibly) the stunt team who had to pull Penn back into his fall.
The only continuity error is, asCapt Kirk mentioned: Orange was on the floor when Eddie, Pink, and White first enter. He’s on the floor during the entire conversation with Eddie about Blonde planning to run off with the diamonds. He’s on the floor when Joe enters. In the wide shot with the four gunshots, he is visibly back up on the ramp. He’s still on the ramp when he’s cradled by White after the shoot out.
Nice vid. But look at frame when Mr White shoots NGE (1:34). MW’s gun is at at shoulder height and pointed down about 30 degrees from horizontal. The two are at least 10 feet apart. Without working out the trigonomics (because I don’t have time at the moment and it might prove me wrong), I’d say the trajectory of the bullet combined with the distance to the target would carry MW’s bullet to about NGE’s waist or lower. Not likely an immediately fatal or debilitating shot.
Add to that this, and the conclusion is inescapable: There had to be another shooter. Namely, Mr Pink from the grassy knoll, er, I mean, from under the ramp.
That’s because people watching it in theaters in 1992 couldn’t replay it repeatedly to watch for each shot, and didn’t know what was coming to be prepared to watch so closely. Even people going back to the theater for a second viewing only had one second to try to catch all the details.
Wow. I never noticed Eddie got two shots off. His first is simultaneous with White’s shot at Joe (he’s a better son than I thought!) and the sound of Eddie’s first shot overlays the sound of White’s shot at Joe, so it sounds like only one shot.
Keitel has two squibs! And they both go off perfectly. At Eddie’s first shot, Keitel has a squib go off at his lower left abdomen and at Eddie’s second shot Keitel has a squib explode from behind the lapel of his jacket on the right side of his chest.
:smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: REALLY!?!?!?!?!? You don’t think there’s any chance that it was Harvey Keitel, the actor that didn’t get the gun pointed clearly at Eddie’s chest in the less than one second he had to go through the detailed choreography!?!?!?!?!?
Yeah, yeah, “whoosh” but after 21 years there are still people who are pushing the “Who shot Eddie?” question. If I didn’t respond to Oly’s post, it’s possible some of those crazies would find this Thread and honestly think, “Yeah! This Oly guy has a great point!”