The ceremonies were plagiarized from Freemasonry. They were cleaned up somewhat in 1990, but prior to that time there were gruesome Penalties that they mimed for revealing the secret passwords and handshakes that get you into heaven.
There are certain ceremonies that are secret and performed only in the fancy temples. You learn handshakes and gestures (that are nearly identical to the secret handshakes and gestures performed by masons) that you are sworn to secrecy about them and their meaning.
Up until 1990, you also had to also mime disemboweling yourself and cutting your own throat if you ever revealed the secret symbols and tokens. I believe this is also standard practice in the masonic ceremonies. The Mormon Church changed it in 1990, probably because it was so creepy.
There is another ceremony performed in the temples called “Washing and Anointing.” Basically, you are naked except for a poncho-type thing that hangs in front and behind you. The person (usually a really old guy for the men or a really old woman for the women) basically wipes water on your forehead, neck, stomach, legs, chest, etc. and then repeats the whole thing again, only wiping a little oil on your stomach, legs, chest, etc.
You’re not really completely exposed, but it is really uncomfortable being semi-nude and getting touched somewhat intimately by a stranger. Anyway, the Mormon church changed this in 2005, again, probably because it creeped people out. Most other members I knew weren’t too fond of this ceremony.
A colleague of mine was raised in the LDS faith, did a mission, etc. When he graduated from BYU and landed a job, he says he started thinking for himself about stuff. It was different when he didn’t have to depend on anyone else materially.
When he was in the process of withdrawing from the Church, and being besieged with communications from the Church, he finally responded to one that asked him to write some declaratory statements.
(I think he basically had to say he was no longer Christian, which wasn’t a problem because he had become agnostic).
He happened to be reading his mail in a bar,so he wrote said response on a cocktail napkin.
He didn’t hear back from the Church anymore.
You are giving your children the best possible gift, and doing the world a favor. The most genuinely moral people I have ever known or known of were raised without religion.
Thanks. I’m really flattered. A whole lotta people, whether LDS, inactive LDS, or non-LDS, have expressed their concern that my kids will be amoral if raised in a non-religious environment. It’s nice to hear some support.
You have it from this Christian, too. A person certainly does not have to have religion to be a good, moral, upstanding person. 
And a prompt, courteous reply from the bishop:
Well done, sir. You accept defeat most graciously.
That is very good news. I’m glad you won’t have this over your head much longer.
I have read only the OP so far, and none of the following 48 posts in this thread.
But Rhodes, you are a hero. Every person that stands up and says no to dogma and superstition and lies, is one, IMHO.
Congrats and best wishes on your new cult-free life. I left mainstream Christianity in 2005, and have never been happier.
Atheists never see angels.
(You can take that as either meaning “they don’t see them because they know that they don’t exist” or “they don’t see them because they need faith to be seen”. Works surprisingly well for both sides of the religious divide.)
The Mormons and JWs I know (personally, not counting those that come to my door) are decent people who merely belong to a church/religion that believes some non-decent things.
I’m glad to see your bishop accepted you for who you are so readily, but I’m a little concerned that this won’t unleash the dogs of Salt Lake City on you, like other posters say they have had happen to them. That “we are still your friends, if you ever need us” part sets my spidey senses a tingling, but I really hope it’s not my perpetually overactive BS-sensing gland acting up again.
Keep us informed. Now that threads usually aren’t locked for zombieing, this would be a good place to keep occassional updates.
Allow me to recommend an atheist/skeptical pod-cast that is Mormon based, Irreligiosophy. Hosted by former LDS and FLDS members, these two guys are unlike many of the usual skeptical pod-casts, they are foul mouthed, insulting but very funny as well as very well informed.
Lied through his teeth, I guess. I had been extremely ill during and after I broke up with him, and everybody we mutually knew were aware how deathly ill I was. I think I spent a total of 5 months in the ICU that time around. He may very well have been able to convince the proper people that I was dead. There certainly were times that the hospital called my parents in because they were convinced I wouldn’t make it through the night.
I don’t so much mind the baptism part, but the sealing bit offended me. If I broke up with him, what would give him the idea that I would like to spend eternity with him?
I and three of my friends got together in our senior year of high school and sent a letter to the Vatican asking to be officially excommunicated. We never got an answer.
It looks like the dogs of Salt Lake City know their legal boundaries and either cooperate with a resignation or ignore it. It’s the local leadership that often gives people the runaround.
My bishop is a great guy. They all are, except the very few who make headlines. Basically, out of a ward of 200-ish priesthood holders, the one who is perceived to be least likely to screw up and humiliate the church is called as bishop. They have their faults, but they are unpaid volunteers with a lot of emotional crap dumped on them. This bishop has demonstrated to me in the past that he does not respect a “Do Not Contact” request for lapsed Mormons (I was involved in hurricane preparedness, and he insisted that I include them on the emergency contact list). But a month after The Wife and I told him that we no longer believed, he came to our house along with his two counselors and offered to start the resignation process. We told him at the time that we did not intend to resign. Oops.
That meeting where we first broke the news to him was interesting. Anti-Mormon writers often claim that the LDS church is currently imploding, with apostasies and resignations occurring constantly in every ward. But the bishop was genuinely surprised. He cried thru the whole meeting. Until the second time that he told us that Satan had entered into our minds, at which point I blurted out that we didn’t need Satan’s help to figure out that secret Masonic handshakes and passwords won’t get us into heaven. I screwed that up. It wasn’t the best time to raise such a taboo subject. So we ended that meeting with everyone thoroughly pissed off. But it’s all been civil since then, with him and with other ward leaders.
First. let me also offer my congratulations. It is encouraging to see an excellent example of reason carried through. Let me also compliment you on your excellent choice of an intelligent and logical wife.
Some of my daughter’s friends were Mormons (up until late high school when they withdrew into their group) and she observed tremendous pressure to marry early. You’ve freed your kids from that.
As for your concern, I’ve raised two atheist children, who have now reached adulthood, both moral, smart, and successful. Your influence will be better than that that of any church, and they will not be torn between reason and false faith. Given that in this case false faith involves lying about history, you’ve taken an excellent step to raising moral kids.
I also like this site. http://mormonthink.com/
They both look like they cover similar material. The articles can be really long, but it’s an interesting perspective.
I think that this is something which may be hard for never-Mormons to understand the significance of this. Mormonism’s self-proclaimed raison d’etre is being a “restored” church, with having the truth which was corrupted (intentionally) and lost from the original church which Christ founded.
This is from one of the Mormon prophets.
Essentially, either Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, and revealed His word, or he was a liar, and there is no compelling reason for Mormonism.
As others have noted, JS is almost deified. Growing up in the church, you can’t count the times you hear people testify that they “know” that JS was a prophet of God. The official history all starts with God the Father and Jesus Christ visiting the young man in upstate New York in the early 19th century.
In a dramatic account, rich in detail and compellingly clear, JS tells in the first person of wondering which church to join, accumulating in the miraculous visit by God and His Son themselves who personally come to call JS as a prophet and lay the foundation for the restoration of the gospel, and all the commandments, truths and rites by which people can be saved and the world can be prepared for the eminently second coming of the Lord in these, the Last Days (which is 190 years and counting, but who is?).
Indeed, if this were true, it would be, as Mormons claim, second only to Christ’s earthly mission as the most important event in human history.
You can read the official account here.
Enjoy the language, the beauty of the message, and the hope which this grants all people of the world. Then read it again. And again. Listen to this if not weekly, hundreds or thousands of time. Listen as an impressionable youth yourself, to adults break into emotional tears as they recount their conviction that this event happened exactly as described.
Truly believe it yourself. Know this as well as you know that America fought the War of Independence and that the sun will rise tomorrow in the east.
Then find out that it was all a lie, fiction written years afterwards and you get the sense of why this is so significant to ex-Mormons.
You would likely be tried in absentia. There could be a public announcement that you were excommunicated, which many people would assume would be for immoral reasons.
One other difference is the elimination of the five points of fellowship, which was reportedly eliminated because of women patrons’ dislike of the forced physical intimacy from male temple workers. The LDS Temple Ceremony – Mormonism Research Ministry
This is a problem inherent to a system which utilizes lay leadership and claims divine inspiration, while not providing sufficient training for the roles they are called to provide.
Well, I have a hard time faulting you, since he was the one who crossed the line. While deliberately getting down to his same level isn’t called for, defending yourself is understandable. On the bright side, he knows you won’t pull punches and has shown a willingness to cooperate.
An astute observation.
I’ll chip in on the support as well. Your decision was a rough one to make, but it was the right one. And as has been said by others, morality should be practiced for its own sake, not because of some religious mumbo-jumbo.
You do not live in Utah. Therefore, you live in The United States of America as most Americans know and recognize it.
If any representative of LDS continues to harass you or show up at your door, you are within your rights to do several things.
- Defend yourself, your property and surely your family through any means necessary assuming you are aware of what the local laws are regarding self-defense and abide by them, or know what the consequences are if you do not. I am in no way advocating any illegal acts.
- Use your telephone. Any time someone shows up at your door to harass you, call the Police. If they are unwilling to respond, call the local F.B.I. field office. Threats to minor children are taken extremely seriously. You pay your taxes? Make use of your rights to the hilt.
Eventually they will leave you alone. Additionally, arrange to have every email and phone call logged so that when you bring the story to the local media ( my goodness they hate having the light of logic and public opinion shed upon them ), your facts will be straight.
Loss Retention is a part of every corporate structure. Defend yourself. Defend your family. It is your right.
Cartooniverse
I seriously doubt that it will ever come to that. Many Mormons are still my friends. And I am sure they are aware that if they try to force their beliefs on my kids, we will cease to be friends. But yes, I will take any legal action necessary to ensure that my wife and I are the only ones brainwashing my children.