Responses Welcome? Not to asshole gun nuts...

The BBQ Pit
1

So here’s the story -

My wife and I own were looking for a rod a gun club to go target shooting at. We own a few rifles, but are generally pretty liberal in our politics and will probably vote for Kerry. While searching online we came across a local club that looked decent. On closer examination, we found an “editorial” section on their site that contained an inflammatory screed against Kerry. I’m fine with people having different opinions, and pretty much expect that we’ll be the only democrats at ANY gun club. That’s fine. This screed however, was loaded with long since disproven Swift Boat vets allegations, and statments like “The Iraqis should shut up and accept Abu Ghraib as the price of their liberty”. Even for highly conservative views, it was extreme. There was, however, a “Responses Welcome” email. I simply decided to go with a different club.

My wife, lovely but naive woman that she is, decided (without my knowledge - I’d have advised against it) to write to the “Responses Welcome” club email pointing out that posting such things on the web site had cost them our business. She suggested that they should leave politics off the site and out of the business, and that she found the editorial “hate-filled and unamerican”.

A few days later, the webmaster writes back saying (among other charming things) “when you started name calling “hate-filled” and “un-American” to disabled vets, you’d better be checking your facts, instead of letting your assumptions get in the way. Someone could get seriously hurt.”

Now I’m sorry. You can disagree with my wife. Hell, you can insult her. You can think (and tell her) she’s a communist, idiot, and everything that’s wrong with this country. But when you threaten her, you cross the line. I don’t care if you singlehandedly saved a bus full of nuns, while curing cancer and capturing Bin Laden. Threatening someone who disagrees with you is about the most unamerican thing I can think of.

So I figure, okay, this guy probably just flew off the handle, and doesn’t really mean anything. So I call him up. I figure a lot of problems can be solved if people just rationally talk about it. I calmly and politely ask him to clarify what he means. I figure he’ll acknowledge that he crossed the line and apologize. If he had, I’d have thought he was a decent guy with a hot temper. Instead, he says he’d rather not clarify the statement. I point our that the statement could potentially be misinterpreted. He points out that it was just name calling. I asked how he would feel if someone said the same words to one of his loved ones. He tells me to “grow up” and hangs up.

So now we get the cops involved. Under no circumstances will I tolerate threats to my family. We haven’t heard anything from the guy (nor do we want to). I doubt we will. But I doubted that a lot of these things would play out as they did.

But what gets me are the following points:

  • Christ on a fucking crutch. Does being a disabled vet give you the right to threaten people who disagree with you?

  • If getting responses that disagree with you pisses you off that much, take down the fucking email!

  • I’m a gun owner, and pretty damn sympathetic to 2nd amendment rights issues, and for the first time I’m thinking, “Maybe it WOULD be better if nobody had a gun.”

  • Now I’m worried that I’ll need to use my own guns to defend my home and loved ones. It perverts what was once a harmless hobby into a sick paranoia.

  • Even worse, I just want to shoot at a fricking piece of paper and not get hassled, and now I’m worrying that I’m going to get a phone call that something has happened to my wife.

  • I come from a family with a long military tradition. I have huge amounts of respect for those who choose to serve. And this asshole just shit all over it.

I don’t care about the politics. Honestly, I don’t.

This guy lost his legs fighting for our country and the freedoms that it enjoys. And he threatens harm against those that use those freedoms. It makes me sick. And it makes me scared. Not just for my wife, but for those freedoms.

What the hell? :frowning:

2

Man, that sucks! I hope you can find a place that is run by human beings, instead of psycho retards.

In my opinion, as a asshole gun nut…you did the right thing! :smiley:

3

Personally, I’d point out that being charged with, and convicted of, making such a threat might well result in [drum roll] THE GOVERNMENT TAKING HIS GUNS AWAY.

4

See, I misunderstood it when I read it the first time. I took it to mean that if someone calls a disabled vet “hate-filled and unamerican” then the vets could be seriously hurt. Like hurt feelings, ya know. But after reading further about your phone conversation I guess I was being too nice to the guy.

Sorry it turned out to be a threatening asshole.

5

What did the cops have to say about it?

6

I’m a gun owner many times over, frequent a couple of ranges and completely agree with you that his “someone could get seriously hurt” comment was totally out of line.

I’m also curious why you (plural) would first email and then personally call someone with such a caustic attitude.

I think there are times when even when we’re in the right it’s most prudent to avoid a situation. Some things just aren’t worth the risk. To me, gun clubs with an attitude would certainly fall into, if not be the poster child for, that scenario.

7

Geez, what a dick! I’m betting that his “Responses Welcome” link was put in place under the (apparently) misguided assumption that anyone reading the site would agree with his views, and therefore shower him with hearty pats on the back for his brave stand (err…sit) against Common Human Decency and Actually Following the News.

8

The guy definately sounds like an asshole. But, you are the one’s who emailed him. Then, you are the ones who called him. Now you’re calling the cops on him? This guy could make a strong case that he’s being harrased by you, not the other way around.

There’s lots of assholes in the world. Best to leave them alone. Once you get into the mud with them, it doesn’t make sense to complain that you get dirty.

9

I dunno about bringing the cops in, the threat was about as vague as they come.

I hope things mellow out, and everyone stays safe.

10

Definitely not harassment against the nut, but yes, probably an over reaction to a thinly veiled, but oft-used threat.

I work with gun nuts, and I am a dedicated gun-owner and Democrat. I deal witht he same words, thoughts, played-out political crap that you were subjected to in E-mail and on the phone. Except I deal with it daily. Continually. Repetitively.

To the OP- your reasons for not joining that specific club are the same as my reasons for having nothing whatsoever to do with groups or clubs that invovle themselves politically with the second amendment(despite working for a law firm specializing in the second amendment). My position is never relevant, my sources never good enough, though the Swiftboaters are.

Fuck them. I just go to my range, pop off some caps and go home.

Sam

11

Sorry, maybe I wasn’t clear about the chronology.

My wife emailed to the “Responses Welcome” link, and got the response I described. I agree, she shouldn’t have “climbed into the mud” as you put it, but once she’s there, I’m not going to tell her that she’s on her own.

I read what I and my wife interpreted as a veiled threat. Had there been no threat we would have chalked it up to experience and walked away. Rather than fly off the handle and immediately call the cops, I decided to call the webmaster. When he did nothing to convince me that his letter was NOT in fact a threat, I decided to involve the police. After he hung up on me, I didn’t call him back or try to reestablish communications. I can see your point, but I don’t think we’ve gone anywhere near harassment. The officers involved also didn’t seem to think we’d been unreasonable.

My reasoning was pretty simple. I perceived a threat. If I did nothing, and then something happened to my wife, or home, or family, I would look pretty stupid for having waited to create a record of these incidents. If nothing happens, (and that’s my sincerest hope) I’ve lost nothing. And I’m certainly never going anywhere near where I think this guy might be. Nor will I or anyone associated with me ever try to contact him.

12

How did you perceive a threat? Your wife sent an email. Did she put your address on it? Believe me “Someone could get seriously hurt” will never be perceived as a crime in court. Better to ignore him from the beginning. Do not feed the trolls is good advice IRL as well as here. You are both making this asshole more important than he is.

13

She didn’t put our address on the email, but she did include her full name. It would certainly be easy enough to use the phone book to find us. The secret “manion” family name is unusual enough that we’d be relatively easy to find.

I do agree, she shouldn’t have written to the guy in the first place. It was a mistake, and I would have told her so, had she checked with me. On some deluded level, she thought she was helping these guys to run their business better. Would I have told her that she was smoking crack? Absolutely, but that bridge is already burnt. What can I tell you? She took responses welcome literally.

Was the “perceived threat” vague, and probably empty? Absolutely. Is there anything that I can charge this guy with? No. Did I overreact to it? Perhaps. Ask me again in a month. Will there be any further action on our part? No, assuming nothing more happens.

For me it comes down to the fact that a complete stranger was willing to make threats (however vague and potentially empty) against my wife for the simple fact that he disagrees with her views. I figure anyone with that much of a hair trigger (pardon the pun) is someone we should alert the local authorities to.

I guess it’s an individual choice. I submit again the question that I asked the webmaster. If someone sent that message to one of your loved ones, would you be bothered by it? If not, maybe you’re calmer than I am. Or you like your family less. :wink:

Seeing as this is the Pit, I figured I could just say, “This guy threatened my wife, he’s an asshole,” and get away with it, you know? :slight_smile:

14

I own several guns.
I vote mostly Democrat and Independant.

It’s friggen annoying the partisan trash talking steaming piles of screed that I get in my email, mail, and shopping locations I frequent.

I bought two holsters on line, I attended a trial membership at gun club, and I used my credit card at a few stores. I did not sign an oath pledging allegiaence to the NRA (And my membership isn’t about to expire, I never had one). I DID NOT request to be put on every Republican’s mailing list and phone list. I DID NOT request catalogues filled with t-shirts and bumper stickers espousing hateful and racist sayings.

15

Hey maniondl,

How far in the wilderness are you? If you’re still looking for a club, email me. At my club, I can pretty much guarantee no one will ask or care about your politics, unless you bring them up yourself.

16

I’ll assume we like our families equally. I may be calmer than you but I am half Italian so who knows :wink: . Of course I would be upset . Strike that I would be pissed. My own background may have tempered my response. I’m a cop and I know I could put a world of legal hurt on the guy if he escalated the situation. My experience also tells me that there is nothing legally that can be done in this case. I’ve gone on similar calls where the complainant just wanted to get something “on the record”. I do my best to assure them and write a meaningless report that never gets seen again. Most likely if you never have any contact with him nothing will happen. If the guy comes back with a more substantial threat then that would be acted on by the police. The earlier email would not be relevant and could be mentioned at the time of the next incident. If it becomes a pattern of harrassment then you should hold onto any emails and make a report and press charges after you receive several of them.

Are you kidding? This is the home of the Monday Morning Quarterback™, of course you were going to get some second guessing. And yes I agree he is an asshole.

17

A liberal leaning gun owner here.

I read and post a lot on gun forums, and guys like this are pretty common. One would think being a vet is something akin to saving Jesus on the cross. I tell them that the biggest threat to the 2nd amendment and guns being accepted in society is themselves. It falls on deaf ears.

18

Yeah, I pretty much figured that was the case. Nonetheless, out of all the options I considered, this was by far the most legal one. Certainly not the most satisfying, but hey, I try to take the high road once in a while.

19

The low road would get you in trouble and please the asshole. You made the right choice. Just be content with the fact that the asshole is bitter and unhappy. He probably has a miserable life and hasn’t been laid in twenty years. Enjoy!

20

On the bright side, if you had to be threatened by somebody, wouldn’t a guy with no legs be near the top of the list?

(apologies to those who are legless and scary)