Return of The Religous Nutball

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

Okay, I see a problem here, sleestak. You don’t want to talk to your friend about religion, but when he brings up the subject, you proceed to talk to your friend about religion!

By asking him for proof and engaging him in debate, you’re only feeding the fire. If you want him to stop talking about religion, then you’d better stop talking about it.

It’s obvious that you’re never going to sway him, because at this point, he’s impervious to reason. The more you try to tell him he’s wrong, the more he’ll feel compelled to keep talking about it to try to convince you he’s right. He doesn’t know how to win the debate by logic, so he’s going to try to win through sheer persistence. The only solution is to just disengage.

No matter what outrageous and easily-refuted statement he makes, you must not rise to the bait. I know, I know, it’s hard, because, darn it, if he brings it up, shouldn’t you have a chance to say your peace, too? But if you really want him to stop, you have to stop, too. Writing a letter about it, or telling him firmly that you will not discuss this subject with him is a good start, but then you have to follow through. If he brings up religion, change the subject. If he persists, tell him you can’t continue the conversation, and hang up. Either he’ll figure it out, or your friendship will come to an end–but if you keep letting him suck you in to religious discussions, you know your friendship won’t survive.

When you write the letter or have the talk with him, don’t make it about religion. Don’t tell him why you don’t believe or what you do believe or what you think about his religion or the historical accuracy of the Bible or Jesus as a person or anything. That would just be continuing the debate–and worse, he could take it as an underhanded attempt to get the last word in. You must make it about your friendship. The only thing you should ever say to him about religion is that you cannot talk about it any more.

I hope that your friend will come to a point where he can be more thoughtful about his religion. If he does, perhaps he will be able to accept your feelings on the subject, even if he does not agree with them. However, I don’t think he can be brought to that point by arguing with you. You need to give him time. You’ll have to help him by not succumbing to the urge to try to discuss these things with him–even to defend yourself–until he shows that he’s ready to have a mature, respectful conversation about it.

Good luck to both of you.

22

Agree with all. It’d probably be best for the both of you to tone down the relationship, or let it lie where it is, for awhile rather than risk doing or saying anything that will be regrettable later. More than likely your friend is completely immersed in his new religious culture and as he explores and learns he’s going to be strange to deal with. What a former pastor of mine once described as “being so heavenly minded that you are of no earthly good.” I respect your unwillingness to let them go. You could possibly be the only rational friend they have at the moment but if theyre involved in a decent church (in other words, not involved in a zombie cult) there’ll be Chrisitians in their group that recognize where they are in their “journey of dicovery” and will be a positive influence on them as well. As has been stated, it’s pretty normal for “new” Christians to misinterpret their spiritual awakening as something that everyone MUST know about immediately! “OMG! We’re going to hell!” Yeah, what a long strange trip it’s been, too.

23

Slee,

I posted to you other thread also, where you first brought this up, about my little sister has become a nutball also.

I agree with Polkadyne about sticking to the not-conversing about religion. With my little sister, on the rare occasions that we speak, I gently but firmly keep the conversation on non-theological grounds. It was very very hard to do, especially the first two years she was into this, but I persevere. At first, she could not form a single sentence without somehow referring somehow to God, Jesus, religion. By speaking slowly, and clearly, and politely

("yes, ok, but what did you get for Christmas… I know, but what did mom get you. …OK, but did you like it?.. Mhm, and other-sister, did you like what she got you? Hey, come back here and tell me, no not that, tell me if you liked what she got you…was dinner good? Alrighty, but was dinner tasty? You got all your stuff cooked right? I know, blessed, but did you have any problems with the recipe? (exasperated sigh)) Something like that…

One I could actually pull a non-religious sentence out of her, she seemed to start remembering how to converse normally. It’s hard, but hang in there, it can be done.

24

Wow. I’d love to see the research papers on that…is this the same science that came up with Evil-ution? Or is it a different science?

I take it your friend didn’t explain that little gem.

25

You might want to look at the effort it’s taken to get someone less forceful about religion to realize that. Check a few SIMS, GD and Pit threads.

But first you’ll have to get T to believe you. That is the hard part.

26

Hello Slee,

I am a Christian. Perhaps I can offer a slightly different perspective…

Your post reminds me of one of the saddest regrets in my life. Many years ago I had a friend. A friend that I never talked to about God, sin, salvation and eternity. I meant to tell him. I thought about it. But I just never did it.

My friend died too young, in a car crash. I failed my friend. I have never forgiven myself.

:frowning:

God bless. I hope you and your friend take the effort to find an effective way to communicate. If he is truly one of your best friends, you can probably work things out. Good friends are a rare treasure. They should not be thrown away casually.

.02

27

GOM, I know you mean well, so please don’t take offense.

If you were living in the United States, your friend already knew about Jesus, and the tenets of Christianity. Life is not like a Chick Tract, where no one has heard of the Bible, and the second they do, they embrace Jesus as their personal savior. Don’t feel bad that your friend wasn’t a Christian when we died. Your friend wasn’t a Christian because he decided not to be one, not because he had never heard of Christianity. He was probably happy to have a Christian friend who could accept him for himself and not try to force religion down his throat.

I am not a Christian, but I do have plenty of Christian friends. The ones who stay my friends are the ones who respect my beliefs and don’t try to convince me they are right I am wrong. My suspicion is that your friend would not have become a Christian at your urging, but that he would have been disappointed in your lack of respect for him. And you would have lost his as a friend even before his death.

28

Hello Kyla,

No offense taken.

:slight_smile:

I hope none was given. Like I said, I was just offering a slightly different perspective for sleestak’s consideration…

Yes. I do live in the USA. I don’t know if my friend was a Christian when he died, or not. My regret is that I failed to ever talk to him about it.

Your post reminds me of another friend, of the same age as my friend who was killed. This friend I talked to (more like argued with) about God, the Bible, evolution and related topics on an almost daily basis. But I did it wrong, again. With him I think, as I look back on it, I argued too much. This second friend of mine rejected Christianity. Possibly because of the way I approached him. A funny thing happened about 15 years later though. He showed up at my parent’s house. He is now a Christian! God works in mysterious ways (if you doubt that, see the Polycarp Christmas miracle thread).

God bless.

Thanks for listening.

29

I think your friendship has nothing to do with religious faith. I think it has to do with your friend signing on to this bizarre new way to live and communicate with others, dressed up in religious faith. This person can’t be your friend - his or her mind is too wrapped up in wacko feedback loops to respond to the real world any longer.

I happen to be an atheist but I respect other people’s faith, and even I can find that co-opting of something that should be beautiful and inspiring to be offensive. Jesus was not a babbling idiot.

30

Podkayne,

I tried to ignore his statements about Gd but he just kept going.
No matter what I tried he brought Gd back into it. For example I asked him if he got any new cool games for his PS2. T responded with a 5 minute rant about how video games were a form of gambling (!?!?) and therefore a sin so he threw the PS2 away. I then asked if he went to any movies. T responded that movies were a waste of time because all your spare time should be spent reading the bible and that “All that is not about Gd is against Gd”.

I didn’t argue with him about some of his more questionable beliefs until the end. I kept trying to talk about other subjects until I just got so frustrated I entered into the fray. I should have hung up before that happened.

I’ll wait to see what happens but he has gotten more vocal about G*d since last time I talked to him.

Slee

31

Wait, he just threw the PS2 right in the trash can? I’m sure there’s a number of Christians who would have been happy to take it off his hands! (I’d be happy to, at any rate. :smiley: )

Sadly, I’m not sure that I foresee the best for this friendship. I’m surprised he took the time to talk with you; after all, you aren’t just about to convert and that took time away from his reading the Bible. (I know that sounds awful, but seriously, I am surprised that he took that much time away from the Bible.)

32

His fervor to win converts and bring it up constantly may fade after time. One of my oldest friends found religion when he went to college. He went the whole route, he got rid of his large heavy metal collection and even got rid of his Aerosmith records. He started listening to Christian rock and I suspect Christian rap. When he got back one break, he tried to convert all of us. Mind you, this is odd because our group was non-religious at best. He tried hard for about two years until he realized it wasn’t going to work.

Ten years later, he has moderated his views significantly. If asked he will talk about religion but otherwise prefers not to. He is still a pretty devout Christian, just not in your face about it. Sometimes you just have to give people a little bit of time.