Revised man, bear, woods discussion

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@Moonrise

This meme is probably one of the most toxic thing I’ve seen online, which is saying something.

If anything, the only thing it has achieved is increasing the divide between men and women. As always, both sides couldn’t help interpreting the other side’s reactions with results that are at best superficial, at worst offensively off-the-mark.

I cannot and will not comment about women’s feelings and decisions because, not being one, I cannot understand what they go through.

I can, but only partially, understand other men’s reactions. And what I see isn’t good.

The assholes who don’t give a **** about women’s opinions and safety don’t give a **** about this meme. If anything, it gives them a perverse sense of power, and they will continue to harass, oppress and, if the opportunity arises, rape women.

Those who care and have tried to listen and better themselves all their lives are starting to consider that the topic of relationships is utterly poisoned, and that the only smart thing to do is disengage totally from any emotional involvement.

Honestly, there’s a lot in what you said that I disagree with–starting with the idea that it’s the meme itself that’s toxic. The meme itself is illuminating. It’s the discourse surrounding it, IMO, where the toxicity is really thriving.

And of course men can comment on women’s feelings and decisions, just like women can comment on men’s feelings and decisions. The caveat is twofold:

1. Don’t assume that all women or men feel and decide things the same way. Comment on individuals, or even notice trends, but don’t overgeneralize.
2. The comments on feelings really really shouldn’t dismiss or delegitimize those feelings. (This, too, goes both ways–there’s just as much commentary from women delegitimizing the dismay of some men as there is from men delegitimizing the worries of some women).

But the biggest disagreement I have is with that final paragraph that I quoted. Who are these guys who are deciding that disengaging totally from emotional involvement is the only smart thing to do? I don’t want to be insulting*, but that comes across as a profoundly cowardly reaction that misses the point entirely. The courageous, honest, and compassionate thing to do is to pay attention to what people are saying, to not be over-defensive, and to think about what real concerns there are and how one can be part of addressing those concerns.

*to be clear, you use third-person pronouns in that paragraph, which makes me think you’re not talking about yourself there. I’m not saying you’re cowardly.