Did you see his comments about it in the “reunion” after the finale? He sounded like he didn’t care, and said something to the effect that, “It was just a TV show.” From what I read elsewhere, he was always cutting up during the Tribal Councils (rightfully so, as they were pretty hokey). I have no problem believing he picked Rich by chance.
Yes, I saw him say that – and that’s my point. We saw him do LOTS of things. Did you see him “cry” when he was voted off? Did you think that was real, too? Yes, he was a cut-up. He’s an overgrown class clown, which is why he said what he said. But just because he said it doesn’t mean he did it that way. And I would bet he didn’t.
That’s not deceptive in the same way. A hitter knows a curve ball is coming. He’s seen a thousand of them before, and he knows how they act. This was the first run-through of a game whose rules were still fluid. The players didn’t necessarily know that deception would be a necessary aspect. They do now. Rich didn’t just use deception where it was expected. He introduced it.
Actually Dumbguy, that’s not exactly the point I was going for, though I did think of that argument myself.
I have conceded that Richard played the game “fairly”.
My point can be compared thusly…
If the Yankees win the World Series every year, I still won’t like 'em.
Richard’s smarminess just rubbed me the wrong way right from the get-go. I just didn’t like him so I was rooting for Kelly. Or more to the point - I was rooting for Richard to lose.
I think Greg really did do it randomly because no matter how much he might have disliked Richard or Kelly the real beef he had was with the show and it’s producer Mark Burnett. There was a lot of friction behind the scenes apparently and there was even some question whether Greg would even be at the reunion show. His question posed to the final two and subsequent vote was his way of detracting from the drama of the whole thing.
Exactly. Greg refused to do the promo tour after he was booted off, his did that strange mockery thing the night he was booted, and he tried to make a joke out of the last tribal council. And he partly succeeded. Because when it comes right down to it, after all the hype and attention, the winner of Survivor was the person who randomly picked the closest number.
When it comes right down to it, you simply can’t say that. You cannot read his mind. You guys think he really did it randomly. I have provided several instances where he acted in a way that was obviously contrary to what he was really thinking. You don’t want to accept that in this case. Fine, don’t. But that doesn’t mean you can simply state, as fact, that it was definitely done by a number choice. You just don’t know and neither do I, but I sure think the weight of evidence is on my side.
In other news, Dumbguy said:
He does? How? How does he know it won’t be a fastball? Or a slider? Or a forkball? Does he know what part of the plate it will be over? The height?
Of course not. That’s part of the game – deceiving the batter. And Richard’s deceptions were part of this game as well.
There was no fluidity in the rules. Nothing Richard did in any way violated (or even came close to violating) those rules.
Hey, you know what? That’s their problem. Some of them went in thinking it would be a big game. They were idiots. They lost.
I expected some deception and alliances and the like. The fact that others were too dumb to see it coming doesn’t make it wrong. It makes them wrong. And, for the record, others tried alliances as well, they just weren’t as good at it. Wasn’t it Stacy who tried to set up a voting bloc, but then that bloc turned on her and got rid of her instead? But I don’t hear a bunch of whining about her. Why? Because Richard was good at what he did.
Jeez, people, get over it.
Actually, I see very little evidence that he took any of it seriously, so I don’t see why the final vote would be any different. Guess it’s all in the interpretation…
I can’t speak for everybody else, but my personal dislike for Richard comes more from the perception of him being arrogant than from the alliance. As I think I’ve said before in another thread, I will concede that the editing could have fueled those perceptions of him as the evil mastermind.
As an afterthought, if they wanted the show to be a realistic represenation of people starving to death, the person sickest or with the lowest body fat index every three days should be thrown off, as they would be the most likely to die. Of course, Richard would certainly win that contest too…
And what makes you say that deception wasn’t part of it? The show’s MOTTO was ‘Outplay, Outwit, OutLast’. It was clearly intended to be a competition of wits. That means plotting, scheming, deceiving, etc.
What would you have preferred? A pure populatity contest? That’s what ‘big brother’ is, and it sucks. The whole scheming and plotting thing is what made Survivor fascinating and gave us so much enjoyment. Too bad for those who were looking for a soap opera.
regarding the whole Greg number fiasco.
Greg asked Richard for a number from 1 to 10 and Richard replied 7. Greg then turned to Kelly and asked her the same question.
IMHO, Kelly should have said, “I pick number 7, too. You manipulative son of a bitch you’re not going to get off that easy and allow me to sink myself!”
If Greg then said, “He already picked that number. It is no longer available,” Kelly should have replied:
“That’s not what you asked me. My number is 7. If you don’t like it vote me off. If you can’t make the decision for yourself, all I have to say is ‘Fuck you.’”
What do you all think?
I think they would have bleeped the “Fuck You” part.
Oscar: great idea. That would absolutely be the way to handle the situtation.
However, I want to ask a question on the issue of Richard:
Isn’t begrudging Richard for being deceptive in Survivor a lot like begrudging someone for being greedy in the game of Monopoly?
Deception and politics was built into the structure of Survivor. That’s what made the show watchable. Frankly, I found it fascinating that no else attempted to create a voting block. In the end, it’s clear that the Island activities are not near as important as what goes on behind the scenes. A little bit of Congress?
Richard, while certainly arrogant and sneaky, was also intelligent and cunning. In the structure of the game (not in real life), it was those positive qualities that outweighed his negative qualities.
Bill Clinton, in the real world, could be a parrallel. (Trump could be another.) Clinton certainly has both negative and positive qualities; however, in the arena of American politics (again, not in real life), his positive qualities have allowed him to perservere through two terms.
I respect both Richard and Bill for understanding how the game is played better than anyone else. I’m not sure how I would like those people in real life. However, thats not at issue here.
Rich won and deserved to win.
Deception and politics was (WERE) built into the structure of Survivor…
My mama done learned me gammer gud.
Anyway sorry, I should have read my post
Prosser said:
Exactly! This is what I’ve been trying to get across here.
Incidentally, somebody posted a summary of Richard’s radio talk show from this morning to the Survivor newsgroup. Richard said something about Greg’s “pick a number” thing being baloney. Unfortunately, the person who gave the summary didn’t give further info, but I’ve responded and asked for further details.
You guys have it easy …
Hatch is from Middletown, RI, and here, has become the celebrity du jour. I swear, the Providence Journal has run a Hatch, or Hatch related story every single day on the front page, no less. Enough to make you wish they had left them on the island.
I dunno, that sounds great to me! But then, that’s the “freelance writer who would love to get an interview with Richard so I could sell the article” talking. 
I begrudge Richard nothing. He had a plan. He worked his plan. When it began to run into problems he modified it and he did so successfully.
Richard deserves every cent.
So does Kelly. She also had a plan, which was modified during the course of the competition. And she got 2nd place and national notoriety (and the cash that goes with it).
In America, it seems we reward people who can develop good plans. When things don’t go quite the way they the plan forsees, a good manager will modify the approach to the situation. So, the winners were Richard, Kelly and CBS.
The network realized that great stuff with Richard, for both good and bad, and edited its program to play upon the loves and hatreds that he engendered. Everyone that deserved to, benefited from those decisions, IMHO.
My point about Greg is that I found his method for making a decision terribly cowardly for what he had been through. Three weeks of tossing people for their merits and you have to rely on a number quiz?!? Give me a break, you loser!