Hah! I was in Berkley many years ago and I actually saw this guy walking on the street! I was stoned and it was funny to see a naked guy strolling down the street (,people made way!). Berkeley is one of the few places that will tolerate with stuff like this for quite a while (or to a point). As I recall this guy was eventually given a dilemma: Put some clothes on, or he can no longer be a student…he left. LoL! the same day I saw three girls doing their homework on the lawn at Cal Berkeley—topless. I had to go say hello. 
The 2nd ammendment gives one the right to bare arms, right? It doesn’t exactly exclude bare anything else.
Peace,
mangeorge
A few miles over the mountains as the slug crawls from UC Berkeley is UC Santa Cruz. Apart from a number of clothing-optional beaches in the town, the campus & town are highly tolerant of those who wear little or no clothing.
The dorm showers are also co-ed.
panama jack
the defense that iheard brought up on behalf of naked guy was that
a. it’s illegal to undress in public, but
b. not illegal to come outside naked.
was that true in the case? if so, how widespread is that law? (just berkeley?)
Seem’s to be a lot of curiosity about ol’ Andrew. Here’s a link to some info.
http://www.phdtop.com/martinez/
All your ?'s answered.
Peace,
mangeorge (I seen him too!)
Mangeorge brings up a very good point, indeed.
Why should it be legal to carry around weapons, but illegal to carry around nothing?
It ISN’T illegal to carry around nothing, especially in your own home with the blinds closed. So, while I hesitate to call anyone a liar, I do come down firmly behind LouisB’s original post.
But I only trained police officers for 14 years so, even though the story tastes bad to me, I don’t wish to comment on it further.
Well it is illegal to “carry around nothing” in most public places, and not illegal to carry weaponry. What a society!
We have a guy here in Amsterdam known locally as the Naked Rollerblader, and that is exactly what he looks like. He doesn’t want to wear clothes, for whatever reason, and has been in and out of the courts here for a number of years trying to prove his point. I think he finally lost, because whenever I’ve seen him he is at least wearing a thong or something in addition to his roller blades, though it is often flesh coloured so you wouldn’t notice it. I can tell you, its quite a sight when your mother comes to visit you in January, and this guy zooms by on his rollerblades, in the snow, looking buck nekkid.
I believe that in England flashing and being a peeping tom are gender related offences, as at the time of the writting of those laws it was unimaginable that a woman would be a either. For much the same reason being gay is subject to many restrictions if you are a man, but not if you are a woman. This leads to the peculiar situation where, if a guy is sunbathing in his garden in the nude and his female neighbour sees him, he is indecently exposing himself, whereas if he sees her doing the same thing he is a peeping tom. Go figure.
that reminds me of a joke moonshine:
Q) What is it when a man talks dirty to a woman?
A) Sexual Harrasment
Q) what is it when a woman talks dirty to a man?
A) $3.99 a minute.
Although thats a joke, it does bear a reflection on gender differences in society. I daresay that it would be mainly women who objected to the “right to be naked” argument.
I was threatened with arrest. The police officer made it clear to me that if he was called again and the same thing had happened he would arrest me for indecent eposure. He strongly suggested I get opaque curtians to put over the blinds and was quite convincing. I share my own experience because I think it is relevant. I will do so not longer here. I see no point in participating in discussions here anymore.
Lee: I’d try to see that cop’s superiors. I think it’s highly likely that he’s a friend of the bitch’s family, or is otherwise bias in her favor. At the very least, you could complain about his wanton ignorance of the law he allegedly upholds.
Lee,
Dont get wound up honey. I believe every word you’ve said. i’ve had enough experience with the police to make me understand that they get involved in the most ridiculous of cases and threaten people for the most ludicrous things. In a lot of ways the whole justice system (at least here in the UK) is highly screwed up.
Nobody here can call you a liar, your case is one that is so outrages it defies belief, thats why people arent accepting it, but dont let that get to you!! thank you for contributing to this discussion! :o)
lee, did it ever occur to you to discuss this situation with a lawyer?
If you are not aware of your rights or if you take no action to defend your rights, there will always be someone willing to violate them.
Everything you describe in your story violates your rights to some degree–some more than others. Any police officer who would threaten you with arrest for indecent exposure based on nudity in your own home, because of a complaint filed by a “peeping tom” is obviously harrasing you and feeling secure in his ability to do so. If you would stand and submit to being verbaly abused and physically assaulted, it is easy enough to see where his sense of security derived.
As to your decision not to post here, well, it is your decision. But I must say a lot of us who post here have been called worse things than “liar” and that should not be construed as my agreeing that I did call you a liar.
If the experiences that I share are to be doubted just because they seem unlikely, then there is little point in me sharing them. Names other than liar do not strike at the core of the purpose for posting. If I post something and someone calls me an ass, or pervert, or stupid, then they have judged me but my post that caused these judgement remains uncompromised for them and others to base opinions on. When my post’s veracity are questioned, not for any reason such as they detail impossible events, or incorrect fact,s but because they seem unlikely and others pile on in questioning my veracity, then there is no point in sharing my experiences at all. Such open doubting erodes the post’s and my credibility.
If you find reason to doubt, ask me questions relating to the doubt. “did it ever occur to you to discuss this situation with a lawyer?” allows me to provide details without attacking my veracity. Assertions like, “I find it very hard to believe that anyone, anywhere, could actually … call the police and have you threatened with arrest simply for being naked in your own home.” and “Besides which, I just realized, you could have her arrested for trespassing!” do not.
My life is a series of very unlikely events. My mother tells me that I spoke my first words at 6 months. I said “hi there” while sitting in a pumpkin seat in a shopping cart. My mother and the lady I spoke them to doubted that I had spoke until I repeated the words clearly with them and others watching. I soon after began to talk regularly and quite clearly. My first words were met with doubt, I don’t care for any of my words to be doubted, so I chose them with care. If you read through my posts you will read about more unlikely events. What is the point in sharing personal experiences if anything unlikely is to be met with disbelief?
And to answer the question about why we did not call a lawyer: We were very poor. We did call a lawyer to see if there was anything we could do near the beginning of the dispute. He said not really unless it got worse, but even so if we wanted him to handle it then it would cost us. We could not afford that. Legal aid said that our issues with our neighbor were not important enough for them to get involved and besides we were not quite poor enough. I called no one in regard to the cop threatening me with arrest because for all I knew he was telling the truth. Making enemies with the police in a small city when they were called on us often seemed unwise. Also at that time, if you recall, there was talk of registering sex offenders and there were stories circulating about how indecent exposure counted as a sex offense.
Maybe you don’t see the point, but you are still participating. That in itself, after your numerous threats to discontinue posting pretty much does your credibility in, so let’s drop that.
Since thou doth protesteth too much let’s get down to facts. You were threatened with arrest, illegally, but took no further action. You didn’t call the State or Federal Attorney General or file a case with any of several legal aid societies who would take the case pro bono. You didn’t file a complaint with the local police department. You didn’t contact the American Civil Liberties Union. Because you were poor. Instead, you waited 10 years, complained to this forum, and are incensed that the logicians here find the story …uh… incomplete.
Does this cover the situation, or have I got some of the facts wrong? i invite correction.
Folks, not for nothing, but the OP was barely GQ. This tangent is certainly not. Please take it to the Pit, or email, or well, anywhere else.
Would you believe that Naked Guy was charged with sexual harassment? Sexual harassment?? He was the most vulnerable of all the students and he was sexually harassing somebody? Are we growing up women today who are so uptight that they are scared of seeing a penis? This is so sad.
BTW, sorry to hear about that lee.
To manhattan: ** of course this is one of the great questions of our time!** We are at a point in which mere nudity is being considered obscene. We straightdopers must challenge such notions. My mayor, who I like otherwise, is trying to ban a photographer who was taking tasteful photos of nude models laying down in various scenic parts of New York City. The way he has those photos taken are clearly non-erotic. So here is another question: Why is it that the naked human body is considered obscene? To be there is nothing as beautiful. The only real edge that humans have, other than brains, is our sexuality.
To summarize:
I see a thread.
I have a relevant experience, so I share the relevant details.
Responding posts seem doubtful and I respond with more detail and say that I am offended by the doubt. I say I think this will be my last post.
Anthracite says chill, I chill.
It is noted that my posts lack detail.
I reply providing more detail.
More posts, some supportive and some questioning.
I reply trying to answer questions and explain my taking offense.
And then, even though I have been trying to answer questions asked of me, I am told that I protest too much.
I was threatened with arrest. I did not know and do not know if it was done illegally. For all I know, I could have been in violation of that city’s laws. It has a population of 40,000 and is not known for tolerance. It is not a suburb and use to metropolitan ways, but the biggest town in 100 miles and the county seat. I did not file a complaint with the police department because I had no knowledge that the officer was clearly in the wrong, and it seemed unwise to rile small city cops when there was a bitch willing to testify to anything against me. Since she had lied before, she could have lied again in court. In any case, opposing the police seemed in no way desirable considering how often I had to interact with them due to her complaints.
As for contacting the ACLU, I thought I had made it clear that I had tried to contact lawyers about another aspect of the dispute with my neighbor. The results of that discouraged me from even thinking about involving lawyers in this. I had a choice, buy a curtain and give in to this or take a risk and oppose it. Buying a curtain did not seem so extreme.
That was also the summer I was getting ready to go back to college. I did not want to be involved in any nastiness that might bring attention to me. It was bad enough to have to endure that neighbor. I knew if I hung in until the end of the lease, I could move and put the whole ugly thing behind me. Being poor for so long had one advantage in that I qualified for all sorts of grants and scholarships. I did not want to rock the boat or fight the system when the system finally seemed to be helping me some.
A cop made assertions about the law and I believed him. I was all of 21 years old, is it so hard to imagine that I would have believed the officer and not wanted to risk the consequences of pursuing the matter further? I brought it up because the experience seemed relevant to the OP. This is not something I spend my time stewing over now. The only reason I brought it up was that it seemed relevant.
An officer of the law said that I did not have the right to be naked in my home if someone who would be offended saw me and reported me. That was the relevant bit.
I continued to post because of supporting or even neutral comments and questions. Since the discussion seemed to be progressing, at least until tcburnett’s response, posting did not seem pointless. It is my habit to answer questions asked of me with the truth. That is why I put the warning in my sig to not ask the question unless you want to know the answer.
Questions relevant to the OP.
Is it never illegal to be naked in your own home? What if you do not take resonable precautions not to be seen? If you are sitting in your own home but clearly naked and can be seen from outside are you violating a law? Is it a crime? Is it a sex offense? capacitor is correct this is one of the great questions of our time.
As I understand it, the indecent exposure laws are pretty much that it’s OK if you have a reasonable expectation that nobody will see it who might be offended. Hence, in lee’s example, where she could only be seen by someone taking deliberate action to see her, it can be assumed that the person seeing her would not be offended, and that lee was therefore within the law. On the other hand, if a person had a big picture window facing right out onto the sidewalk, and no blinds, there would be a good chance of someone seeing it who would be offended, so in that case, nudity in one’s own home would not be legal.
Oh, and lee… I don’t think that anyone thinks that what you described didn’t happen… We just have a very strong feeling that it shouldn’t have happened. Unfortunately, there are, indeed, some folks in this world like that bitch neighbor of yours, and I’m sorry you had to have so much contact with her.