Rules for old people

The BBQ Pit
1

Fine… let’s get the rules straight once and for all. Provide me with the list. Tell me all the things I am allowed and not allowed to do, now that I am “old.” Just remember, I will hold you to it… what age are you going to get rid of the cool car? Are really going to be cool when you go grey, or (for the fellows) when you hair starts to go?

I am sick and tired of it. Just tell me the rules so I can be sure not to ugly up your personal space any more. That woman with the skin like leather? She got that way trying to impress some young stud much like yourself. No one warned that she would end up judged by a different set of standards… and now all the men her age are eying the chickies with the pale skin. I had the luck to be one of those people who never could tan, and gave it up 30 years ago – so my skin is not too bad. I paid the price then – being the girl no one wanted, no one saw as attractive. And now that pale skin is the way to go? Now I’m too old.

Then there’s that nasty gravity issue. News-flash, all you lovers of perky. There’s not a thing in the world you can do to stop it. Whatever sort of woman you choose will end up with tits and ass that sag… unless you are gonna keep trading them in? Of course not – only nasty older men do that!

And may the Gods help us if older women flirt a little! We are all so restrained here, and we know that no one can ever wink at someone unless they are trying to bed them. Besides, who wants to be reminded that older people might want a little attention, affection, intimacy and !gasp! sex. Anyone coming up on their 50’s should just get used to the idea that they don’t need to get laid any more… because if anyone catches them out looking to connect, well won’t that be embarrassing? Yep, we should all be at home learning crafts and mounting pictures of children.

So you all tell me how I should be behaving. I am 43, divorced, living alone, no children, no chance of children. I guess I don’t really need to worry about diet any more, since one can only be beautiful if they are young. I can stop going to the gym, save all that money for cross-stitch pattern. That saves me from fitting back into the clothes I have, which are probably “too young” for me anyway. Muu-muus, here I come. Good thing I work for a Hawaiian company. I don’t wear much make-up, but I guess I should just get rid of it… would hate for anyone to think I was trying to look younger! Covering the grey hair is also a waste of money… too bad I am allergic to cat, so I could spend that money on toys for them.

Yea, everyone always says “we weren’t talking about you. You aren’t old.” But someone out there is thinking those things about me. Someone has decided that I am only over-weight because I am lazy – they don’t know or care about the surgery or medication, or how much time I spend trying to lose the weight, or how much I give up in the hope that I might be considered attractive. I couldn’t be fashionable when I was young, and now it’s too late – how did I miss that window? It’s easy to say “I didn’t mean you,” but what do you really know about the people you are judging? There’s someone out there who does mean me. I’m not out trying to meet anyone, but it’s nice to go out once in a while… and if there’s a flirtatious exchange that might make me feel a little better about myself, do I have to know there’s someone in the room thinking I am told old to be acting that way? There’s only one man I want, and he doesn’t want me right now – do I have to stay home in case I might offend you by having a good time in your space? I suppose I could take up “good deeds” of some sort, but I already volunteer as much as I can. I am not going to get any younger, so you might as well fill me in on the rules right now. Just make sure you keep a copy for when you hit your 40’s, for when you start to notice you can’t keep up with the kids. Fair’s fair – I mean you aren’t judging anyone in a way you wouldn’t want to be judged, right?

2

Actually, he WASN’T talking about you, he was talking about people that dress like they’re still 18. In my opinion, it’s not that they aren’t attractive, it’s just that they no longer look 18. It’s disgusting that they’re ignoring the qualities they do have and try to emphasize qualities they don’t have. IMO, my mom is one of the loveliest women I know, even though yes she has grey hair and yes isn’t the svelte woman of her youth.

BUT, if she ever put on a mini-skirt, halter top, and knee high leather boots, I’d probably be disgusted.

What they lack is the flush of youth, but they’re trying to hide it. They might still be attractive, but they end up looking entirely pathetic. And that’s the problem. That they’re pathetic.

I haven’t seen a picture of you, Sassy, but I think you wouldn’t do that, and are probably a very lovely person. My guess is a wonderful, mature person that DOESN’T try to pretend she’s still 18, but a person who handles what she has with grace and assurance that is attractive.

And let me think, it’s hard for me to remember what my mom looked like when she was 43. I was very young. I don’t think of 43 as old, my parents had me late so 43 seems pretty young, to me.

I have seen a pic of PCW, and I think she’s about your age, and I think she’s a very attractive woman.

My grandmother was, at 80, a very lovely women.

It’s not the age I object to, it’s the pretense. Some people age gracefully. Some people end up like that god-awful woman with the big blond hair and too much make up on the religious channel.

Lex could have said it a better way, though, I think.

3

Jesus Lorenzo Lamas Christ, lady! This is the most callow piece of self-deprecating crap I have ever read in my life.

The Pit is no place for a pity party. Couldn’t you do this in MPSIMS where the people would hug you and comfort you and tell you everything is okay? I think that would have been better for all parties concerned.

It wasn’t enough to respond to me in the thread this started in, was it?
(link to thread I’m talking about, here for all those who are interested) You had to start a thread of your very own, replying to my post almost line for line.

Life has been so cruel to you. It sucks that you had a hysterectomy. At least, I can only assume that is what you are alluding to with “surgery” and “medication”.

But you know what? There is nothing good or bad in life but thinking makes it so. You are responsible for your own happiness.

You say that someone out there is thinking ill of you. Who the hell cares? Some random person is thinking that you aren’t great? Fuck 'im! Who needs 'em?

And here’s a news-flash for you:
43 isn’t old! You’re only as old as you feel, and from what you’re saying, you feel about 85! Do what makes you happy! Believe in yourself, go to a support group, get a grip!

NOTICE: Important part to follow!
I never meant to convey that the women I referred to in my post were ugly because of the way they looked. What I meant was that they were ugly because of their lack of confidence, and that fact that they were trying to be something they aren’t.
If those same women would stop dressing like prostitutes, quit smoking, scrape off the 2 inches of make-up, and otherwise show some interest in themselves, and have some freakin’ self respect then most likely several men would be lining up to ask them out to have a drink.

Let me ask you this, Sassy:
You’re 43. That’s Great. Are you a 43 year-old skank?
Do you wear skin tight outfits? Do you do your makeup like a whore? Do you smoke? Do seriously try to pick up men that are a half your age?
I am sure you answered “no” to every one of those questions. And that’s good.

Now, let me ask you this:
You’re 43. That’s Great. Are you a smart, employed, self-sufficient 43 year-old woman? Do you wear clothes that complement your figure? Do you do your make-up to accent your natural beauty, and not to cover your face? Do you try to take an active interest in your health and wellness? Would you like to meet and date a man in your age group (35-50)?
I bet you answered yes to at least one of these, if not all of them.

You know what that means? It means that you are not saggy old bag of guts, but a living, breathing, feeling, laughing, seeking, helping, vibrant lady.
It means that you should know that confidence is one of the sexiest things in the world.
It means that when I say “Act your age, damn it!” that I don’t mean you should book a room at Shady Acres and start gumming creamed corn, it means that I think you need to seek your own happiness, and cast off the things that are bringing you down.
It means that you are only as attractive as you decide to be.
It means that you have a lot to offer, but no one will see the sweetness until you lose the bitter.

And I guess you’re right, Surg, I should have put what I said more delicately to better convey my meaning, but I am not in the business of watering down my candor in case some individual takes it personally because they have the confidence of a garden-slug.

4

Gee Sassy, you pretty much just named all the reasons he wasn’t talking about you. Lighten up.

5

well Sassy I think the young blokes are giving The Rules for Old Women. As long as we dress so they don’t think we are skanky tarts and as long as we don’t try and pick up men half our age, they promise not to judge us.

Boys I reserve the right to dress however the fuck I please. If I wanna paint my face so I look like a make up counter exploded in my general vicinity and swing from the chandeliers, rest assured I will do so :wink:

primaflora

6

Hey Sassy, do the pencil test and be happy :wink:

7

I can fit 20 pencils under one breast and 15 under the other breast. Do I win?

primaflora

8

I tried to go to sleep, but realized I had shown a bias that I didn’t exactly intend. While the comments Lexicon made in the other thread (which he referenced above) were the precipitating factor, I did not intend for my post to be an attack. I apologize since it seems to have been perceived that way. I think my point has been lost in the shuffle. I do not wish (even were it possible) to take from anyone the right to decide what they find attractive. I live in San Francisco, where the variety of fashion choices is unrivaled. The point I want to make is – I don’t look at people and think “they should know better.” I think - I wouldn’t make that choice. Young punks or Goths, old hippies and all in between – I am pragmatic, and I know what suits me.

My objection is to the generalizations made based on age. Surgo made the comment that he wouldn’t like to see his mother in mini-skirts. He may be right about that. Who’s gonna tell Tina Turner she’s too old to dress like that? Her legs are a national treasure… should she hide them? On the other hand, I’ve seen a lot of 20-somethings that would have been better served not to make the choice to show their legs.

Age should not be the criteria. I don’t act my age, and Gods forbid I ever do… because it’s always someone else telling me how someone my age ought to act. I choose what I wear based on what I do. I work in an office, so most of my wardrobe reflects that. If I worked at Starbucks I could make different choices. When I choose clothing, I have two issues – can I use it, and does it make me feel good. I could probably wear some of the things the trendy kids wear – except that I don’t go to the trendy places, so there’s not a lot of point in having those clothes.

Lexi, I am sorry to have dragged you into the middle of this, but I still think that your comments were based in a premise I do not accept. I appreciate your thoughts, but I disagree. How someone chooses to dress should not be a factor of their age. Skin tight? Not me, not now – but there might come a time when I will… and I reserve the right to decide if and when that’s appropriate for me. The amount of makeup I wear is something that will be my choice, and the judgment of that will be for the people I am trying to attract. The age of the people I pursue is also my business, unless it’s you I am chasing – at which point you may feel free to respond as you see fit.

I can see how my post can be construed as bitter, but that was not my intent. My intent was to point out that making blanket statements about people of any age is offensive to me. It’s as offensive now as it was when I was younger and people said “you’ll get over it.” I got over some things, kept others – and that’s my choice. Ageism seems like a trivial complaint until you are faced with it. Young people complain about being judged on appearance. They are, and it’s too bad. My sister-in-law, who is one of the finest people I know, would probably not be hired at my company, since she has tattoos and tends towards unlikely hair color. I can’t go out to the Haight and get a job in a trendy store – that’s where the pierced people work. Both of those things are wrong. My best friend would have trouble getting a different job because of his age… although he is brilliant at his job. They see gray hair and assume incompetence… or some other kind of trouble.

I am not bitter. I am afraid – because people who think that you should be a certain age or dress a certain way are going to be deciding my future in a few years. The young things who dress, as you so colorfully put it, like skanks are already getting the promotions. How long before they decide to replace me with someone who’s easier to look at? I am not afraid of my age – I have been happier in my 40’s than ever before. I am very afraid of people who think that someone who is 50 should be home making quilts.

9

There is a fine distinction that might clear some of this up. See if this works for you.

Being responsible for yourself includes being aware of your audience and their perceptions. In other words, close the loop. It’s not just transmit, it’s also receive. This is a general tool that can be applied in any social situation.

To me in this particular case it means: sure I can dress and act howeverthefuck I please, but I also at least need to be aware of my impact on others. It’s a matter of looking and seeing. At that point whether you give a flying crap or not, at least you are conscious of how you are perceived. Otherwise you are at least partially not in the driver’s seat of your own life. People will act funny and you won’t know why. Right or wrong has nothing to do with this process; you don’t have to like it to be aware.

For example, I found once that a circle of friends had decided I was somewhat uncivilized. Not that they hated me, but they started trading those ‘humor him’ looks. Finally we had a chat. Nobody got grilled, I just became aware. I chose to change the way I was acting because I liked these folks. Never did quite get the hang of actually being nice tho…

For me, the reaction I get when I see an older person trying to act like a teenager(*) is they are posing and not being straight with me. Hey, they don’t have to be straight with me, there’s no law. But my next thought is usually gee I wonder why? I wonder what else they’re not being straight about? And if it’s a 375 lb guy in Speedos, my next thought is gack! Not that I would be rude enough to make anything of it, of course.

(*) By this I mean bleeding edge hairstyle, eyebrow ring, and latest gangsta handshake from a middle aged stock broker.

That’s it, my good deed for the decade. Check. Resume firing.

10

Gee Sassy, From the time I hit puberty to the present, if someone as beautiful as you had shown the least interest, I’d have followed them around like a sick puppy.

I half fell in love with you when I read your initial rant. Darn near completed the process when I looked up your pic and saw that great smile. Wish I lived on the west coast.

Dont let the morons grind you down. Age will get the last laugh on them.

11

Sassy, you sound pretty good to me.

Sez I, ain’t no need to worry about it. You do what feels good to yourself and those that don’t like it can damn well go look at somebody else.

filthy

(60, ugly, beer-bellied rat-bike rider. Gave up long ago trying to impress anybody. It’s seldom worth the effort, even when it can be done.)

12

Sassy, I’m with you, hon.

Am I the only one who was touched by Sassy’s posts in this thread? It touched me because I feel like it’s where my life is headed. I’m a 30 YO female who’s been sick about half of my life. The meds I take make me gain weight and my body is not what it should be for my age. I also feel like I’ve missed part of my life and I totally understand how you feel, Sassy. I wish people would see me as the cool person I am on the inside, but all they see is a fat person who got fat from being lazy and eating too much. Meanwhile, the young, thin, healthy women are valued more than age, life experience and intelligence. I think it’s unfortunate that older women are ignored because it’s cooler and more fashionable to be young.

I don’t understand the people in this thread that have responded to you by saying “Lighten up”. They have no sensitivity.

Speakeasy, I see where you’re coming from, but the reason some women are dressing like that is because they want to look like young women. That may be sad, but men want sexy women, right? So if a 50 YO were to dress her age, would you want her then? Probably not. If you do, then I commend you on not letting the media tell you who to find attractive. But for now, we’re damned if we do, damned if we don’t.

13

Personally, I find repugnant the idea that there is a certain age beyond which people have to watch the way they dress.

I’m 30. I am build like a shapely pear on stilts. However, I wear form-fitting shirts and short skirts. (You know, on occasion.) I also have a pair of knee-high boots with three-inch heels. If the thought of someone with sagging boobs, cellulite and the type of hip spread that one can only get from giving birth to three children wearing revealing clothing revolts you, you can kiss my ass.

If I dress in revealing, whorish, tramp-like, slutty, what-have-you clothing, it’s probably to please myself. I couldn’t possibly care less what some hormone-driven, Cosmo-humping, Playboy-sneaking kid (read “kid” as “person with adolescent sense of beauty”) thinks of the way I look.

I am not going to spend $20,000.00 on plastic surgery to suction my belly or thighs, or lift my boobs, or get rid of the bags under my eyes, or tighten the skin on my chin. I’m not going to stop drinking heavily creamed coffee or eating the occasional piece of chocolate cheesecake. I have EARNED every flaw on my far-less-than-perfect body.

Folks who only want to be shown skin by “Rules” and “Vogue” reading, L’ancome and Gap wearing, Backstreet Boys listening tarts deserve every minute of vapid self-absorbed conversation they get from the little twats.

Not saying anyone in here is like THAT of course :rolleyes:.

Naturally, once I hit the “submit reply” button my self-esteem will go right back out the window, but hey…

14

young, old, thin or fat…

spandex shorts in public?

Tacky!

15

Sassy,
After reading your OP, and your post in this thread:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=33006

I think you need to put on your thick skin before coming into the pit. Granted you may have a point, but if the thread above made you cry at work, i think there is a bigger problem behind all of this.

16

Fuck that. Has anyone heard of fucking sensitivity? When did decency go out the fucking window?

Sassy, my mom is 45. She is a size 10 and looks fabulous. She’s gorgeous. Last night we went shopping and she wore black capris, a black fitted shirt, and leopard print slides. She looked incredible.

I just have to ask…so what if you see an old lady in a miniskirt? So what if you feel disgust? So what if someone’s poor skin upsets you? Get a fucking grip. It’s their life. Get up and walk the fuck away. Who are you to pass judgement? Yeah, that’s what I thought.

God forbid anyone offend anyone else in the entire fucking world. That would be a fucking tragedy beyond words, in the same way it’s a goddamn tragedy that people are so cruel and insensitive.

And I don’t care if it’s the fucking pit!

17

Thanks to all who responded. I appreciate all the input, and only wish I could make myself more clear so that the people who think I should lighten up would understand – it’s not about me, it’s about judging. It’s about the fact that just about everyone knows someone that they realize is beautiful, even while recognizing that the person may not meet our current standards of attractiveness. Unfortunately, too few people seem to take that lesson to the conclusion – that the other person you are judging might be just as wonderful if you knew them.

You know and forgive or factor in the things you know about your friends, but others won’t – because it’s okay to judge. You know about the diabetes, heart condition, surgery or medication. That won’t help them when they are on the bus and someone decides to keep their seat, because “that fat ass doesn’t need to spread any further.” Your friends will get seated in the corners of restaurants, and the service they get will be sub-standard. They won’t get helped in department stores… in fact, they may have salespeople actually be rude: “we don’t have anything for you. Your friends will be overlooked for promotions, they will not be offered jobs (even when they are best suited) and they won’t get the same raises. Because everyone allows judging of people based on how they appear… and they forget their friends when they are looking a strangers.

Yes, there are skanks, slobs and sluts out there… but you can’t tell by looking at them. Every time you do judge, or listen when someone does, you are allowing an attitude that hurts everyone. Age, sex, weight or appearance – you don’t know about them, unless you know them. I stayed out of the perfume thread after my initial outburst, because I do agree that there are people who wear too much and I didn’t want to derail that rant any further. On the other hand, I don’t think my point (if I have finally clarified it) is mundane or pointless. In rereading my comments today, I can see how they were perceived as my whining about something I am not willing to address. I will take more time in the future – since we don’t have a smiley for frustration. That’s what the tears were about… that even here, where we are all so educated and working to be good members of our society, even here it’s okay to make fun of people you don’t know, just because they don’t meet your standards.

And yes, some of it is personal. I am possessed of a good self-image, and I am very good at what I do. But that won’t make a bit of difference if my next boss is some 25 year old who thinks he can tell what kind of employee I am by looking, or who would simply rather have someone around that he considers pleasant-looking. It’s not supposed to happen, but it does – because people still allow others to judge without supporting their judgment, and because it’s okay to discount anyone who makes you uncomfortable.

Last thought – there isn’t anyone who wants to tell Tina Turner she can’t wear a mini-skirt? No one addressed that… :smiley:

18

Sassy, I agree with everything you just said. And I’m sure Lexi would to. Because, once again, that’s not what he was talking about. He was talking about people who deny who they are. People who try to be something they’re not. Am I talking about trying to be attractive? No. I’m talking about people who try to look young. And looks are superficial, I think we can all agree on that. But they can be a reflection of what the person is feeling. I just think it’s sad when older people think they can’t look beautiful without looking young. And I think that’s what Lexi was saying too.

19

Thanks.

That’s exactly what I’m trying (and failing, evidently) to say.

Did anyone actually read my reply? What do you want me to say?

Did I not express myself monosyllabically enough for dipshits like N4S to understand?

And I do agree with everything you said, Sassy. But just saying it is not enough. If you have a problem with the injustices, you need to do something about it.

Let me bottom line it for you:

[li]Fake people suck. Age/sex/race/color/weight/sexual orientation has nothing to do with it.[/li]
[li]People who whine about a situation, but lack the integrity to do anything about it, suck too. Once again, age/sex/race/color/weight/sexual orientation has nothing to do with it.[/li]
People who blame others for their shortcomings, you guessed it, suck. And, lest it be missed yet again, age/sex/race/color/weight/sexual orientation/whatever-cross-you’re-carrying has nothing to do with it.

20

The artist Reubens said it best in his paintings. I dare you to look them up and tell me that 30-40+ something, non- skin and bones women are not beautiful. (He used his own wife as his primary model)

Only in todays women hating fashion designer driven sensibilities has that quit being the benchmark of beauty.
Marilyn Monroe wore a size twenty dress for god sakes. (The one for the presidents birthday)