Yeah, when I saw that pic, I figured it had about 60 folks in it. So if nothing else, it lends itself to the idea that the casualty rate was nearly 90%.
Here a couple photos. As you might guess, while the ship was left surprisingly intact, for the crew a magazine explosion is not a survivable event.
Those photos are the wrong way round, sequentially.
Indeed. Re: HMS Barham, here is the video in question (possibly the sound effects were added later). You will see men standing on the hull as the ship capsizes, and you will know that the bulk of them could not possibly have survived as you will see the explosion and the immediate aftermath. Which to me is disturbing enough (even if there is no sign of gore) to warrant a spoiler:
That’s about as much of the ship as you will see in the explosion. It only gets worse from there.
Oops. You’re right. It’s been a while since I’d seen the film and I’d forgotten the explosion was some minutes after the torpedo strike. A better example might be Arizona which basically broke in two after her magazine exploded. While 30% of her crew survived the vast majority were not on board for the attack ,it being a Sunday in port. Of those who were onboard, over 95% were killed.
Milton Bradley.
Sorry for the Facebook link. Rogue Nasa says, 'We’ve been preparing for years, Putin… ’
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=531154578383685&set=a.204557454376734
There’s a Revell Moskova model. It’s an open ocean on a Revell kit box.
Re the Barham, there’s separate explosions of the boilers [white], high explosive projectiles [black] and slightly later - bright flash burning of propellant stores. The projectile and propellant storage magazines were normally separate on capital ships. Propellant degrades [will spontaneously explode] as the chemical stabilizer is consumed. Capital ships would have an onboard laboratory to measure stabilizer content.
A 2nd British man has been captured by the Russians. Aiden Aslin has a Ukrainian fiancee and holds dual citizenship in Britain and Ukraine. Shaun Pinner is married and has been in the Ukrainian marines for several years. They aren’t volunteer foreign fighters that recently came to fight. But they’ll still get singled out.
Every soldier has to decide for themselves if capture and years of mistreatment is worth remaining alive. I suspect a lot of soldiers reserve one bullet to avoid capture. It’s a horrifying decision to make.
Imho there’s very little chance any captured foreigner fighters will ever be released by Russia. They’ve committed so many atrocities that I can’t see them showing any interest in human life.
Personally, I would have preferred a link to what the Russians are currently showing rather than the 41 minute video about the Falklands - I dunno, perhaps you could have indicated the most relevant time stamps on that? Not everyone wants to sit through 40 minutes of video.
Do you think the Ukrainians are capable of mounting a insurgency similar to what the US faced in Fallujah? Where our troops had to fight building to building? There was always the problem of insurgents reentering buildings as our troops moved forward.
Russia of course isn’t constrained like our guys were. US soldiers couldn’t demolish buildings that had insurgents. US forces were expected to go into the buildings.
Mariupol will be the first test. Whatever forces are left will have to break up into small groups of men. Maybe 5 men? Spread out across the city into the buildings. So the Russians can never capture or kill more than that in any skirmish.
In Mariupol, the defenders are probably safest being in their Azovstal iron and steel works plant base, from which they can conduct sally attacks - as long as they have supplies.
I strongly suspect that armed uniform resistance will be obliterated. Regardless, the insurgency will, as it often does, have to come largely from the civilian population.
Certainly, but why would they? Ukraine still controls enormous amounts of ground from which they can fight Russia in a manner that is both coordinated and supported by lines of supply. Pumping resources into an urban insurgency might not be wise expenditure of blood and treasure. The Iraqi insurgents fought that way because that was the only fight they had available to them.
unless the russians go chemical in those tunnels… and I have a hunch they will in this scenario … underground in a besieged city … who will find out if you burn the bodies afterwards ?? … it’s not that the UN high-commissionaire will be waltzing in anytime soon
Here’s the original ship from a similar angle:
It looks like the external missile launchers are intact. Are those smoke marks along the side of the ship coming from portholes? Suggestive of a big internal fire.
That looks modestly more survivable than the worst-case possibilities. Listing, not capsized. And it looks like they managed to launch all the liferafts. Well, unless they were stolen between then and now…
Yeah, the photo must be from the following day, with everyone evacuated from the ship. It makes the parade of the less than a hundred sailors look strange. What happened to the other four hundred crew members?
If you’re right about the smoke marks from the portholes (which would also fit with the rumors about the ship having poor internal containment and the sailors having poor firefighting training), one could imagine hundreds either dead or severely injured just from the fires. There’s a pretty wide range between 50 dead (probably a bare minimum based on the explosion) and 450 dead (a seeming upper bound from a confirmed ~50 rescues).